Do you go to therapy to change your attachment style?

stopdog · Aug 31, 2015, 09:06 AM

Do you go to therapy to change your attachment style? Did you decide later one to change it? Would you mind if the therapist tried to change it without asking you?

Aug 31, 2015, 09:12 AM

I don't subscribe to attchment theory. And my T has never mentioned it. (I answered "no" though, because it's not what I am in therapy for.)

stopdog · Aug 31, 2015, 09:18 AM

I have actually had many mention to me about dismissive attachment. I don't dislike it so I can't imagine why I would want to change it. I do, however, fear the woman may be trying to change it against my will with that right brain thing. Some of what I have read leads me to believe they try doing it at clients regardless of the client telling them they do not want it.

I had an odd conversation with the first one once where she said she used to try to be kinder and I told her how much better it was now that she had stopped trying it and she was taken aback. The problem is, I think she is trying it again -and it is awful for me to have them do empathy at me.

brillskep · Aug 31, 2015, 10:07 AM

It's not exactly my objective, but having a more secure attachment style has been a positive result of other changes I've made. I find it to be a good change that I wanted and couldn't really put into words back when I started therapy.

I don't think anyone can change anyone else's attachment style without that person wanting or doing something in order to change themselves. I really don't believe anyone can change anybody else that way. I know I've changed in the past in ways that were detrimental to me, as a result of other people's feedback and wishes, but it was my choice to do that at their request. If I now choose to be a certain way and others don't approve, I find that to be my choice just as much. If my therapist wanted me to make a change I didn't decide to make, I just wouldn't (or if for some reason I did, I wouldn't think it was just the therapist who changed me).

stopdog · Aug 31, 2015, 10:12 AM

Perhaps. The way those people write about it makes it seem as though they do that right brain stuff without permission and the whole point is to do it despite the client's wishes.

brillskep · Aug 31, 2015, 10:31 AM

You make an interesting point. But this type of right brain connection is something that happens between two people (or it doesn't happen). The therapist may have an intention and try to help the client change in certain ways, but it's still the client who changes (or doesn't). In my experience, people don't change unless they're ready and willing to. We have defense mechanisms for that.

stopdog · 11:38 AM

Yes, but the therapists, in what they have said and again - in their books - say that is what they are trying to subvert -client defenses and what they do to clients to get rid of the defenses. The writings indicate they do it to the client at the unconscious level - so the client cannot properly defend.

Leah123 · Aug 31, 2015, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stopdog

Yes, but the therapists, in what they have said and again - in their books - say that is what they are trying to subvert -client defenses and what they do to clients to get rid of the defenses. The writings indicate they do it to the client at the unconscious level - so the client cannot properly defend.

That's one school of thought, more psychoanalytical perhaps. My therapist certainly doesn't subscribe to that, wouldn't work for me at all.

Aug 31, 2015, 12:23 PM

Attachment isn't one of my issues (have plenty of others

) so it has never come up.

atisketatasket · Aug 31, 2015, 12:29 PM

I don't even know what my attachment style is. But I don't think it's an issue for me.

Aug 31, 2015, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stopdog

Yes, but the therapists, in what they have said and again - in their books - say that is what they are trying to subvert -client defenses and what they do to clients to get rid of the defenses. The writings indicate they do it to the client at the unconscious level - so the client cannot properly defend.

That's diametrically opposed to everything I have ever read on the subject. But maybe USAnian therapists do that - they seem to be very different.

stopdog · 02:07 PM

I have read books by Wallin, Seigal, Maroda, Muller and many articles. Perhaps it is only the dismissive they try and draw in this way.
One of those guys described it as just sitting and communicating right brain to unconscious right brain until the force of the therapist's right brain caused the client to quit pushing the therapist away and let the therapist empathy at the client(the client's reluctance for such, in the passage, allegedly was distressing to the therapist who very badly wanted the client to love him).

The first one I see used to talk about her interactions with me changing my brain until I got her to stop because she refused to explain how or why it would be useful.

msxyz · Aug 31, 2015, 02:06 PM

That's not on my agenda and as far as I know not one of the explicit goals on my treatment plan. It might be a side effect working on other things though or something happening in the background.

Lauliza · Aug 31, 2015, 02:10 PM

I understand the importance of attachment in early childhood and how it forms attachment styles, but don't think much of attachment theory therapy, at least not with adults. Working on this with children is one thing but I don't know why a T would try to change an adults attachment style, especially without their knowledge.

Restin · 02:37 PM

Stopdog, Your wishes about how your attachment, or lack of it, or not wanting it, makes sense to me. I've been in that arena longer than I can recall. My only reason for not wanting attachment, and wanting to change that I have it is because the loss of T feels worse than dying. So, I feel I have to go all the way through my personal Attachment jungle to hopefully reach the natural end of it and leave T on my own wish. At least my T reassures me that growing out of the attachment will be my desire, like the bird wanting to fly off the nest

rather than being pushed off. I'm counting on it working out that way.
I just read Maroda's book , "The Power of Counter Transference" and it made good sense to me about the dependency issues. I thought she was humane about the ending of therapy, letting the patient feel ready. I've read many of those textbooks now by the "experts" like Wallin, Seigel, Chessick, Winnicott, Balint, etc. Stolorow has the best ideas about endings, in my opinion...the patient decides.

What I've gleaned is that I should, and deserve to, decide how I'm ready to attach, and also how to end the therapy, IF I feel I'm getting to the end. My beef with all the therapies has been over the termination theory or style. I now reject any therapy, therapist, or book, that schedules a termination countdown or gives an ultimatum. That is totally cruel and traitorous. Many therapists did this termination regime, such as Masterson, Stark, Giovachini, Bollas, Yalom, etc. Even Freud and Jung didn't seem to give the patient enough slack on this, in my reading of them. In my opinion, Martha Stark is a sadist who has no business with any patient, according to the traitorous bait&switch she describes with attachment in her book, "Working With Resistance". So, I've gradually learned to follow the books and docs who are flexible about the ending of therapy, and sometimes will just skip that termination chapter to save myself the anger.
I'll confess I read books to head off painful surprises ahead. More than I should, I'm sure.

Lauliza · Aug 31, 2015, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stopdog

Yes, but the therapists, in what they have said and again - in their books - say that is what they are trying to subvert -client defenses and what they do to clients to get rid of the defenses. The writings indicate they do it to the client at the unconscious level - so the client cannot properly defend.

This is a specific school of thought that many therapists do not believe in or practice. I have never even had a conversation about attachment style in my own therapy, I just know how I am and why I am probably like this. Some Ts might try to relate and empathize with you in order to form a connection, but in my experience that's just what people who are socially oriented do. They like to relate to people. If you don't they may try to push you because they think it's somehow unhealthy, so I understand where you're coming from with that perspective. But the "right brain therapy" where the t tries to experience what you experience emotionally in order to modify attachment style is not appealing to me in he least. I find it phoney and I would not return to a therapist who acted like this. I this is at all what your T is like I now understand 100% why you ask her to stay back and not talk. I also understand now why you find the supposed empathy so strange or insincere. I would feel the same way with a T like this.

That said, I do think it's possible for the relationship with a T to alter relationships in other areas of your life, especially if it's a positive one. To go from distrustful to more trusting or socially anxious to a little more confident will indirectly affect your attachment style. I don't think this is how therapists are always approaching their therapy nor are they doing anything without your knowledge. It's just human nature and shows how much people affect each other without really knowing it.

brillskep · Aug 31, 2015, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stopdog

Yes, but the therapists, in what they have said and again - in their books - say that is what they are trying to subvert -client defenses and what they do to clients to get rid of the defenses. The writings indicate they do it to the client at the unconscious level - so the client cannot properly defend.

It's true that that is usually the purpose. That is because therapy is normally about change, but most people are resistant to change because whatever behavior or trait they mean to change has served them well at some point, or else they wouldn't have developed it. But it's exactly because of that, that the therapists I've met and consider good at this respect the client's defenses and work at the client's pace.

I have, however, also met therapists who believe resistance on the part of clients is a bad thing and they try to destroy it. But at least in my experience, those therapists don't seem to create a bond which promotes a change in attachment style. At least that is my experience with those therapists. Granted, it is limited experience because I usually stay away from these types of therapists ...

Crescent Moon · Aug 31, 2015, 04:35 PM

I did not go to therapy to change my attachment style. However, my therapist accurately (in retrospect) identified attachment problems. She was pretty clear early on that she thought it was important that I become attached to her. I told her she was nuts. And as we did therapy week in and week out, her genuine interest and kindness affected me. When I wasn't looking, it happened. When she saw evidence of it, she pointed it out.

One thing I can say about my therapist is that she does not try to make it mysterious. There isn't anything I can't ask her. She will do her best to give me and honest answer. So although I didn't go looking for attachment (which I thought sounded yuck), it happened. And I'm glad. It helped me. I don't feel like she did anything at me without my consent. I was there for her help. I came to trust her. She did not withhold from me any information I wanted to know about the process. So even though I did not ask for or invite 'attachment,' I put myself into treatment with her and considered it part of that. But believe me, if anything happens that I am not okay with, I have no problem speaking up.

unaluna · Aug 31, 2015, 04:42 PM

Well - my t says part of his job is just showing up. That has an effect on us. Thats why i tried to warn you, Sd, that just presenting yourself to the office exposes yourself to t-rays!! Saying that jokingly, but for me it filled a need, something that was missing in my upbringing - that sense of constancy. If you (or someone) had that sense of constancy growing up, then maybe the constancy t-rays would have no effect on you, for example, but maybe some other rays might soak in.

Crescent Moon · Aug 31, 2015, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stopdog

I do, however, fear the woman may be trying to change it against my will with that right brain thing. Some of what I have read leads me to believe they try doing it at clients regardless of the client telling them they do not want it.

I had an odd conversation with the first one once where she said she used to try to be kinder and I told her how much better it was now that she had stopped trying it and she was taken aback. The problem is, I think she is trying it again -and it is awful for me to have them do empathy at me.

Whether or not she or you discuss it, I am confident that she cannot successfully make that happen without you, internally, deciding to dismantle Fort Knox. I don't think that right brain thing would work on someone who actively defends against something they consider so distasteful (empathy, etc.) I have no doubt that you can spot it a mile away and you will never be taken by surprise.

unaluna · Aug 31, 2015, 05:03 PM

... ... ...

... "SNEAK ATTACK ON SD!!"

... ...

(Sorry i know you really hate the moving smilies. But that turned out better than i expected! I should see if they have any job openings at times square...

)

stopdog · Aug 31, 2015, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crescent Moon

Whether or not she or you discuss it, I am confident that she cannot successfully make that happen without you, internally, deciding to dismantle Fort Knox. I don't think that right brain thing would work on someone who actively defends against something they consider so distasteful (empathy, etc.) I have no doubt that you can spot it a mile away and you will never be taken by surprise.

Seriously - it is in their literature that they think they can