Power in the therapist-client relationship

maybe you just had a bad T or therapy wasn't for you, or the style of therapy, personally i feel if i had been through that it would have coloured my view of therapy, gaslighting? i'm not sure about that, but i wasn't there so i don't know, i do think making assumptions about other members or canvassing all of therapy over a bad experience is not healthy, but i do believe T's are just regular people with a particular degree, they are prone to flaws like the rest of us, if this T has emotionally damaged you, why not file a grievance?
but guys please remember to post with giving and receiving support in mind, we are a support site, if you don't want people opinions to clash with yours, please don't ask people for them, we are all in the same boat here, nobody's perfect everyone has flaws even therapists, it's worth keeping in mind

My T was not what would typically be considered a "bad T". And that for me is the point. Part of what went wrong was systemic in nature. She certainly was incompetent and emotionally unstable but can't be cleanly separated out as a bad apple. Doesn't fit the profile, which seems to assume extremes of behavior and of transgressions. Which is one reason filing a grievance could end badly (but I still might).

And the systemic problems were reinforced by my experience searching for another T. I saw enough of them to see patterns.

I get where you are coming from, but what you say could be taken as a defense of the biz and an assumption that the client is the problem. And that is one of the systemic issues I faced. I got the blame for things going badly wrong. It's a fact. Not just by main T but others. As for gaslighting, it was overt and unequivocal.

Also if T's are just regular people, doesn't the whole thing collapse on itself? How can a client in a vulnerable position trust their deepest issues to a regular person who is subject to the intrusion of their own needs and impulses?

I'm not one to excuse therapists on the basis of the fact that they make mistakes just like everyone else - so too are doctors human, and we hold them to a high standard in their work. Therapists should be the same.

But even though I believe that, I don't understand your question. Because although I don't think their being "regular people" is an excuse for a mistake a therapist or doctor makes, they are in fact regular people with needs and impulses (which they should not bring into the office, just as doctors should not see patients when they're drunk). Are you saying that therapy is an impossible profession and should not be practiced by humans?

Eta: I guess what I'm trying to say is, how can a client not be aware it's another regular person sitting there with them? I mean, I don't buy the excuse of having needs if they screw up. But simultaneously I expect them to screw up.

Etaa: yeah, I added a bunch of stuff and then deleted because a, I was rambling, and b, think I might have misunderstood BudFox in what I was adding.

ex vivo, interesting post and sounds rough, sorry you went through that. Have you tried anything like EMDR?

If you don't mind my asking, what was the trigger that set off the longing and other reactions? I had a somewhat similar experience in terms of sudden overpowering longing that turned to obsession. But there were no flashbacks or obvious somatic stuff (though I do get a lot of stomach pangs in general, as a visceral response to any anxiety or fear). My T became visibly emotional in response to my own emotions, and then I was never the same again. I have wondered in what way my defenses were taken down and what it points to.

Always I had the financial power
Always she had the emotional power
After 5+ years, I terminated

So I guess my answer is I don't know.....

I'm saying it was dishonest they treated me like a child, reproducing and exploiting my veneration a child has for a parent. They shouldn't have put on a performance and stagecraft. They shouldn't have domineered me. They shouldn't have feigned omnipotence and omniscience. They shouldn't have pretended to mind read, or labeled or commandeered my narrative. They shouldn't have given me life lessons, knowing no more about nor living better themselves. They shouldn't have pretended they knew how life works or transformation works or if it exists at all. They shouldn't have played God or priest or wizard or oracle.

I shouldn't have been such a fool to be pulled in to their folly.

Now as a blogger and reader, knowing a couple of therapists outside a treatment context, I can be more objective about this trend toward pretense and presumptuousness that many mental health providers seem to display. I see a great deal of dishonesty about the limits to their knowledge and certainly to their powers.

Well, yes, and I'm sorry for all that...but that's not the question I asked.

i agree with this. And the denials and the tone they are mostly in are usually SOO invalidating to those who have been harmed in therapy. People who think therapy is good usually seem to blame the clients when bad therapy happens. I have seen it over and over. It just enforces my belief that therapy is really quite dysfunctional. Just because it might work for some does not mean it is good overall and that there aren't some very troubling issues with the profession that need to be looked at and perhaps changed.

BRILLIANT dismissal. Use that with all your friends. No pity necessary. I write about singular, personal experience as not to pretend to know the universe. I've personally observed many merely-human therapists pretending powers and knowledge beyond their mortal, human abilities. And I think that can create delusion and damage.

In that power is mostly perception, and therapists work to actively guide the perception in the room, does it not stand to reason that therapists hold the greater bounty of power?

While it's valid to gauge power based simply on the dynamics of client and therapist each having the right to disengage with one another, it does seems oversimplifying, ignoring all that happens in session where it is the client who exposed and vulnerable, who reveals, who looks for guidance -- none of which happens with most therapists. Certainly most of mine would have sooner told me an anecdote about another patient than about themselves, which being third hand wisdom always sounded like it felt impersonal and disingenuous even to them.

Sure, ultimately we give them that power (albeit with plenty of encouragement from them), but what other option? That's the process. To lay ourselves bare, for them to comment and judge our every micro-idiosyncracy. Imagine having a real-life relationship like that, where you were totally honest with someone who perhaps took notes during your conversation, who never shared about themselves, and to whom you kept going back for more of the same kind of interaction.. it's only natural that the power balance in a relationship like this would become skewed.

Which may be okay for some people. Personally I prefer to engage with those who are confident enough in their abilities not to require that type of imbalance, and who have enough of an understanding of the benefits of collective intelligence to be willing to convene with more equal footing. My personal experience has been that many therapists are not highly functioning where this sort of confidence and understanding are concerned though, perhaps having too soon come to heavily rely on power imbalance. (This is not dissimilar from the common complication of a parent-child relationship in which as a child becomes an adult, many parents are unwilling to ever fully relinquish the psychological power they once wielded effortlessly, in order for the relationship to evolve. The parent becomes accustomed to the power that the role allows, enjoys scolding and directing and criticizing and may even let these aspects spill over into other relationships.)

Not a dismissal. You quoted a question I asked at me and I do not see how your response answered it. Please, elaborate.

Maybe it should not be practiced at other humans. Let them practice on robots or stuffed bears.

I am starting to see a pattern here. Of like logical vs emotional responses. Not saying one is better than the other - ive been trying to get more in touch with my emotional side for a long time. But DBT wants us to combine them into wise mind. Anyway, thats what it looks like from the sidelines - the anti-ts are solidly emotional. My advice: feelings are universal. Youre not the first or only person to feel the way you do. A LOT of people do. You are not unique in that way. Just the FEELING. Otoh, your set of circumstances is unique. You are a special snowflake. We all are. Thats what makes you interesting and lovable. I think the question of power is solved by being in wise mind.

This thread was started in a spirit of genuine enquiry. The poll itself indicates that there are a lot of divergent points of view. To say that people who been through therapy do not know their own minds about it and what they experienced is ridiculous.

I am on record repeatedly here as suspicious of therapy, and I do think the profession is fundamentally flawed. I find it semi-helpful and therefore will continue to use it as long as I find it so. Some people have had terrible experiences - as I acknowledged repeatedly on this thread and others - and some people have had very positive experiences. I belong in neither camp.

Frankly, I find the debate on here between the posters who, yes, dismiss clients' bad experiences as some sort of aberration and the posters who insist that their bad experiences mean that there can be no positive aspects to it incredibly tedious, with obnoxious and overbearing posts from both sides.

As I said, I started this thread in the spirit of genuine enquiry, and it has taught me a number of things. This does not include the conclusion that any client who thinks they hold power in their relationship with their therapist is deluded.

I hesitated to start this thread, fearing that it would devolve quickly into what it has now devolved into. It is not in the spirit of genuine enquiry to insist that someone with a different opinion than you is deluded. I mean that for both sides - those who think the therapist holds the power and those who don't.

I am requesting that the moderators close this thread.

deleted.............................................

I don't think in terms of power, don't see that as useful. I think power is in the eye of the beholder, like beauty :-) What I think and feel about power is going to be different from what anyone else thinks and feels, is going to be idiosyncratic rather than "real". I can get up and leave the therapy situation (may not want to; I may feel hurt/pain, but I can talk or not talk, leave or not, try what my therapist "suggests" or not, etc.). I have all the power in my life because it is my life alone, ain't no one else in this head but me

Just when I had started having fun with prepositions.

That WAS fun you were having at!