What do you consider progress from therapy to be?

It really depends upon the orientation of the T whether they tend to pathologize or not. Mine definitely did not: he saw most issues as developmental. Many Ts choose to train in programs other than clinical psych because they see psychology as outside the parameters of pathology.

I think the degree of pathologizing (?sp?) can depend on the health care system, too. In my country there was little push to diagnose or treat a label, but I suspect in other health systems, especially those in which insurance companies may request a 'legitimate reason' for treatment, there is more emphasis on getting one.

It would be so awesome if Kierkegaard were available in pill form. I've always felt a little lazy about reading the big philosophers, you know? It would be even less effort than that illustrated "for beginners" series.

I had a really great abnormal psychology professor who talked about how mental illness is society's way of stigmatizing and marginalizing creative thinkers and nonconformists; it does not exist except as a social construct. I got really into that idea for a time. But yeah. No. Mental illness isn't miserable because society doesn't appreciate your unique brain. It is sheer suffering.

I can see how it is a relief, but that does not make it credible. Seems depression, anxiety, rage, obsessive-compulsive, etc are not reducible to simple explanations or causes. As someone said, depression is an abstract feeling, it is not a disease, it is a symptom of poor health on some level. Could be emotional, psychological, existential, physiological, situational, spiritual, etc.

As for medical conditions, you'd have to be more specific cuz not sure what you mean. Things like chronic infections, chronic toxicity, severe nutrient deficiencies can cause symptoms of "mental illness". But neither therapists nor psychiatrists are in a position to treat such things. And when therapists use the word "treatment" seems they are stretching that concept quite far.

I think the MH system gets it wrong so often because it is incapable of comprehending the complexity of human beings and the human body, preferring instead reductionist concepts that avoid the mess and the confusion, and that sell a lot of drugs and a lot of therapy. I personally reject the idea that depression or anxiety is a disorder that we cannot manage or resolve without "treatment". So too the idea that these problems are not simply a natural response to our life situation.

Hahaha, well put. Your professor sounds like a real charmer

It's not that I don't see the point they're getting at. I do. I just don't personally feel comfortable going through the DSM and declaring which entries are "real diseases" and which "pathologizing social constructs," especially not when I consider how long and hard mental illness has fought for legitimacy. My Kierkegaard professor didn't seem to have any qualms about it, but, hey, I guess that's why he got paid the big bucks!

Like I said, couch it in whichever terms you'd like. For me, personally, therapy and medication helped. Kierkegaard didn't. To each their own.

I just hope the implication here isn't that therapy and medication helped me because I've been duped by the great overlords of Big Pharma and the Self-Help Industry. I tend to think therapy and medication worked for me because these are legitimate treatments for my very credible mental health concerns.

I mean, believe whatever you want for yourself--I'm certainly not going to tell you what to believe, what your problem is, or what you need to do about it. And I don't think you're trying to do that to me, either.

It just sort of sucks to read a wholesale condemnation of the system that has helped me so much because I wonder what the implication is for me. That I'm wrong about the system having helped me? That it's only an accident that is has? That the next time I hear a voice that isn't there calling me a "stupid ****" I should take some magnesium and move some place where they don't spray pesticides, since, clearly, whatever my doctor/therapist recommend can only be considered "treatment" if I put the word in quotation marks.

I hadn't thought I was making any progress until I saw my T on Thursday and told her that I had left a social gathering when it got too much. She pointed out that this was me looking out for myself and you know what - she was right! Before I would have stayed, becoming increasingly uncomfortable, afraid to leave for fear of hurting anyone's feelings and would then have avoided going again next time probably. Instead I politely made my apologies, without giving reason and left, without feeling guilty. I have also spoken to the host since and she didn't mention it at all, we even have dinner planned this week.

So, just because I left she didn't think I had abandoned her, or that I didn't like her or anything along those lines, (well, I didn't ask her upfront but I didn't get that feeling from her). And because she didn't think like that then maybe I can start to think that when people don't return my phone calls or have to cancel on plans made that it isn't that they don't like me or find me too much or that they have had enough of me etc etc etc.

I think it will take a while to fully cement this into my belief systems but I think that this might be progress. Thanks T, I will certainly miss you!

My original point was that the MH system trains us to believe that our problems in living are medical disorders that require treatment, rather than self-care. It's a baseless concept. Whether the system's purported treatments help some is another thing entirely. Now we are getting into complex questions about the way individual people heal, the power of the mind, and all the confounding variables.

I don't see how calling therapy a "treatment" makes much sense. I understand that talk therapy might be helpful, in that a positive interaction with another person is helpful, but calling it treatment suggests, again, some sort of medical model.

No offense to anyone but I feel like this question of whether therapy works or not is likely to largely devolve into the tale of six blind men and the elephant.

Simply because it seems that personal experience is likely to significantly color not only the types of evidence (for or against) that are considered and valued but also the interpretations of such evidence.

Well, the original question was about individual experiences. I was not asking for the one true answer. I just wanted to know what people considered progress they attributed as coming from therapy for themselves.

You know, I don't go around telling people that the basic assumptions behind their preferred model of care are "baseless." Or that their treatments aren't deserving of that name. I don't discount the possibility that people's problems in living aren't medical disorders and don't require treatment. It's just not very polite. So I'm not sure how polite it is for you to discount the possibility or call "baseless" the idea that some people's problems in living are medical disorders and do require treatment. I think all possibilities should remain open so that each individual can decide for him or herself.

Why does treatment have to imply a medical model? (Window treatment! Film treatment!). If a treatment is a way of dealing with something - anything, really - then the word used in respect to therapy is just fine.

Though therapists can give one "the treatment" in a totally different context.

Again - this particular thread was intended to be about what people see as progress they attribute to therapy. Just individual stories about how they see that therapy itself has helped them progress in ways they wanted to be helped.

Other ideas can be debated in other threads.

I first entered therapy for anorexia/bulimia, depression and suicidal ideation.

Five years later, my attitude towards food is very different. I believe that I deserve to nourish myself, whereas in the past, I didn't. My eating disorder symptom use has become rare and has nearly stopped. I don't hate my body anymore.

I'm also not clinically depressed anymore, and I am much better equipped to handle fear, sadness, frustration and anger when they arise. I'm also able to see that emotions are transient, and that they will pass. I'm able to "ride the waves" now, and don't get swamped by my feelings.

I used to be chronically suicidal; I literally could not imagine a world in which I would want to be alive. The fact that other people wanted to be alive kind of blew my mind. Today, I'm not suicidal at all, and haven't been for about 2 years.

I genuinely like myself, and am generally content in life. When I have a tough moment, I am able to weather it, to reach out for support, and to take care of myself with compassion.

I never thought that all of this would be possible. When I first entered therapy, I was so sick with the eating disorder, so depressed and so deeply suicidal that I couldn't see a way out of any of it. I attribute all the change to a combination of therapy and medication. I know that there is still a lot of room for improvement, but I've definitely come a long way.

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I have made progress with my original issue. I went to therapy with a phobia/anxiety disorder around noise. I was also on anti depressants off and on for anxiety.

My noise phobia is much decreased, much more manageable and understandable. I have been off anti depressants for over a year and I'm doing well. So, I see these things as progress indeed!

Of course, the phobia/anxiety had an underlying cause, and I think it's slowly unearthing that which has helped lessen the panic responses. Therapy has brought up more issues for me, and that's difficult and challenging but overall very helpful because I'm starting to see why I have been so anxious most of my life, and this understanding reduces the anxiety. Long way to go, but I'm getting there.

Also, just to add that I understand lots of people will need anti depressants long term/ forever, the want to get off them was more because I felt I didn't really need them, not because they are a bad thing generally.

I function better. I don't think it's just the medication, since that's fast acting I think it would have worked faster than taking years.