The Couch 120: The Missing Element

Nah, she's just all feminist and stuff.... I took it to mean friends in general....

girl power haha

No, that has nothing to do with feminism - in fact it is completely antifeminist.

Oh. That's my misunderstanding. Well, I don't know then. Maybe it's just because I am more comfortable around women and she knows that? I dunno. But wait, that's not even true anymore (it used to be true, but not anymore.) There are men in my drumming circle, and I talk with them just as easily as with the women. Now I want to ask her why she specifically said women friends.

That would be a more reasonable assumption. Sorry to go overboard, it's just the kind of thing I'd fire my therapist for saying. I'm sorry. Maybe she remembers that you used to be more comfortable around women and wasn't up to date with more recent developments?

I doubt it is meant in any particular way at all.
Crocus I know you are not in the US.
In middle class, heteronormative USA with all our Puritan heritage its pretty unusual for married people to have close friends of the opposite gender. It happens but is often looked on with suspicion.
So I think.by woman friends arts T probably just meant " you need to get out of the house and be with people outside your family"
Its not "right" per say but its a heavy social norm here

My group of friends tends to be split between male and female. And most of the women are sort of masculine, in the sense that they don't conform to the stereotype of female friends giggling, gossiping, complaining about husbands, discussing the latest fashions and make-up.

I think any friends are important, but I too am curious as to why she specified women friends.

That's a really good point too, Bay. I didn't even think about that. So very very true, you notice that I said "men in my drumming circle" like I automatically had to say it was a group setting to feel "right" about having men friends. Wow, middle class, heteronormative USA is messed up, ain't it? I love the couch. I love these discussions. Y'all are so awesome!!

Aren't you married? My guess is that women friends might just be less complicated marriage-wise from her viewpoint, but I'm just guessing. There is also just a different dynamic between women than in a woman/man friendship. I have some of both, but I would say there is definitely a difference in how we interact, what we discuss, the things we do, what I get out of it, etc.

Update on my Dad: They think his issue is gastric but haven't defined that. It wasn't heart-related. They gave him some I.V. fluids because they felt he was a bit dehydrated -- he had been fluid-restricted when he was in the hospital and he hadn't been drinking enough since his discharge. They went ahead and sent him home with instructions to drink plenty and get with a gastroenterologist. I'll talk to him later to see how he's doing.

I'll just stay away for a while, for my own sake.

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to make you feel bad. I'm enjoying this conversation, with everyone's input including yours.

Chris - Glad to hear it was not his heart.

Re-women friends - I think it makes sense. I think some women, particularly those attached to their female therapist, can find some of that with female friends. I find the whole feeling around women friends to be different from my male friends (and even I have some close male friends - but for me, and for some other women from what they say - it is different from the experience with good female friends)

aha - maybe that IS what she meant by it - because I am so attached to her.

Chris, I'm glad to hear too that it wasn't his heart.

Crocus -- I agree with you about the women friends stuff but then again, I'm not from the US.

It really tends to raise my hackles especially when otherwise seemingly intelligent women start talking about the whole "girls night out", "it's just us girls", "let's keep it to only girls / women" (this when planning something) stuff. And, for what it's worth, I'm equally irritated with the whole "let boys be boys", "boys night out" sort of stuff.

I used to think it was a generational thing and then I thought maybe it's a regional thing but now I'm just not sure any more.

I think if I look at my close female vs. male friends, the difference seems to be not so much in what we talk about but rather how we talk about it. And, I'm not sure that's entirely a gender thing (at least in the case of my friends' circle) as much as personality differences -- so, I have female friends who are utterly impatient with all talk of feelings and would rather go out with me and watch as I punch a few things if I tell them I'm upset; and, similarly I have male friends who would look deep into my eyes and ask me how I'm doing / feeling and push me to answer even when I try every which way to deflect.

Art -- all of that's not to criticize your T (obviously, I can't really say what she meant but just that the phrasing would've rubbed me the wrong way).

I don't think it is just an american thing. But if one does not find it useful to seek out a specific male or female friend, one need not do it. For me, I am more comfortable in general with women. I like men okay -but there is, for me, a difference in how they relate to each other and how they treat women versus how I am with my female friends. Is it all women I can be friends with - of course not - but my close female friends have a much different feel to me than my close male friends and I value that a lot. Of course, I am also a lesbian - so perhaps that adds to it for me. I am simply more comfortable around women. I have heard some women (even posters here) say they are more comfortable around men.

Yeah I'm not saying its right or women and men can't be friends. Just around here its assumed due to social norms. Like someone will tell a mom or dad with small children "go out with your girlfriends for a night" or "go do something with the guys"
And all it really means is " get out of the house and socialize"
Its a way of speaking that I think is common in some areas. If someone tells me "you are working too hard! Go riding with your girlfriends" they really just mean "go riding with whoever you feel like riding with but take some time off"
It IS the social norm where i live for people over a certain age to hang out in either single sex or couples groups unless its a specific activity like a band, group class, softball team etc.

Its maybe a good example of how sexism is so.ingrained in the fabric of US society that we barely notice it. At the same time like with heteronormative language for the most part I think.language just hasn't caught up.with how people actually think

For me, my T has sometimes shown enthusiasm about my friendships with other women that he does not show for my friendships with men because I have historically had such an intense distrust for other women. If my T made a comment like Art's, I would assume that was what he was referring to.

I don't have friends, male female or decline to answer. I like to think I'm friendly with a few coworkers, but I don't really speak with them or see them outside of work. So if a T said I needed friends, I think I would be very upset and feel sort of blamed for the lack, so not helpful.

Sitting here bemoaning my status as working poor. Could be worse off, unemployed. Not really making me any more grateful for my paycheck but I'm not saying I have the worst financial situation out there.

What I'm really doing is freaking out about not being able to drive my truck, not being able to take it to a shop, not being able to get myself and my kids where we need to be, and not having anyone I feel comfortable asking for help.

True measure of friendship: would I go get this person in the middle of the night if their car broke down? Would I call this person for a ride to work?

Answer: there's nobody calling me, and there's nobody for me to call.

Being as old as I am, still being financially unable to provide for my needs, is humiliating.

Thanks. I've pretty much stopped feeling sorry for myself now, cleaning up a little.

i have had people invalidate my experiences because at this point i do know people . and have people who supposedly care about me,friends. i have a husband who supposedly loves me ,i am financially comfortable and have been able to stay home and raise my son. who up until recently has given me little to be concerned about .i also own my house without a mortgage i guess you could say i have it all if you are looking from the outside . but i cant always believe i have people who care about me and i always feel so alone and abandoned. i live in a constant stage of anxiety these days . i have no family who care about me at all and reject everything about me .and the abuse and stuff growing up has seemed to have left me FUBAR . but can i call anyone if i need other then my husband .i dont believe i have anyone either . in fact it seems most think i have no reason to be unhappy at all .

Gah. I'm facing a fork in the road, one of which leads to the village of More Unpacking and the other to the hamlet of Putting Furniture Together.

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OR you could hop aboard a boat to the island of Avoidance....the weather is fantastic here!!