[magicalprince]

Does anyone suffer from a pattern of role reversal with your Ts? Or have you experienced role reversal before in therapy? Where you feel like you are working around your T's issues instead of the other way around? Or you avoid talking about certain issues because your T can't handle it?

What has helped/hurt you in getting the support you need? Have you been able to make therapy work for you in these circumstances?

[Longingforhome]

I think it's quite common in people who have had tough childhoods with parents who expected care, rather than giving it. They trained us well a good, well boundaried T should be able to help you through this and make sure the focus stays on you and your needs, not theirs. I think the way to make sure it doesn't derail the therapy is to make it explicit. Not let it play out as an underlying theme

Originally Posted by magicalprince

Does anyone suffer from a pattern of role reversal with your Ts? Or have you experienced role reversal before in therapy? Where you feel like you are working around your T's issues instead of the other way around? Or you avoid talking about certain issues because your T can't handle it?

What has helped/hurt you in getting the support you need? Have you been able to make therapy work for you in these circumstances?

Do you think this would work?

[magicalprince]

Originally Posted by Longingforhome

I think it's quite common in people who have had tough childhoods with parents who expected care, rather than giving it. They trained us well a good, well boundaried T should be able to help you through this and make sure the focus stays on you and your needs, not theirs. I think the way to make sure it doesn't derail the therapy is to make it explicit. Not let it play out as an underlying theme

Definitely @ the bold part. Parentification is so damaging and was my experience as well.

My problem generally has been that when I make it explicit, the reaction is either invalidating or absent. I think what works for me so far is just deliberately focusing only on my side of the story and not commenting much on T's reactions. It's like I can either push through and share the whole picture of my life and my experiences, or otherwise get caught up reacting to ways that T is adding extra meaning to that picture. Of course the trickiest part is handling the actual relationship with current T...

I think even in my really bad failures with therapy, if I had done that, it might have still worked out. Not totally sure. But I know when it did fail it was because I took responsibility for the meaning that T was adding to the picture, which they then added even more meaning to, and it was all just a bad feedback loop.

[magicalprince]

Originally Posted by _Mouse

Do you think this would work?

Sorry _Mouse not sure if I'm reading this right but, I think you may have misunderstood the post? I was not suggesting role reversal, it's a problem that crops up!

[junkDNA]

i encountered this in an abusive therapy relationship

[missbella]

I'd argue that when therapy becomes for the provider's benefit rather than the client's, it harms the latter. And yes, I experienced that.

I left the therapists who seemed to be bringing in their own issues too early on. It seemed lacking in boundaries and professional discernment. Of course, what one has to figure out is whether the therapist is really bringing in their own issues and putting you in that position, or, like longingforhome said, are you simply perceiving that to be the situation because you are in a habit of caretaking? I can see it going either way.

[BudFox]

I unconsciously held back telling the last one how destructive the relationship was becoming, for fear of hurting her. But she was complicit in this. She was seeking need gratification just like me and was telegraphing this in various ways. Most of them are probably in the job to satisfy a need-to-be-needed complex. Two-way street.

Looking back it's all so convoluted.

[magicalprince]

Originally Posted by lolagrace

Of course, what one has to figure out is whether the therapist is really bringing in their own issues and putting you in that position, or, like longingforhome said, are you simply perceiving that to be the situation because you are in a habit of caretaking? I can see it going either way.

That's a great point. I think in my case it is the latter. I can never quite tell how much of it is my fault. Sometimes it's hard to know what to expect healthy therapy to look like. But then I think it invariably mirrors our other relationships in life.

Originally Posted by BudFox

I unconsciously held back telling the last one how destructive the relationship was becoming, for fear of hurting her. But she was complicit in this. She was seeking need gratification just like me and was telegraphing this in various ways. Most of them are probably in the job to satisfy a need-to-be-needed complex. Two-way street.

Looking back it's all so convoluted.

I've had this happen, then me feeling addicted to being needed as well. It is a mess and probably never therapeutic.

Weirdly I understand what it means when a therapist depends on me but I'm still working on understanding what it means to depend on a therapist. I don't usually have any significant feelings about T's. Then the one case I did it was like, apocalyptic, crazy codependency.

Guess I'm just personally too used to feeling needed. All my friends say I should be a T.

[Argonautomobile]

I've never personally had this happen, but I figure it would be best to get it out in the open? What do you think would happen if you told your T about this?

This was my relationship with T1. It was difficult and the relationship failed.

[missbella]

Or a client can have longings AND a therapist can have his own issues. And therapists and people in general bent on destructiveness sometimes can be the most expert at shaming and discounting the victim.

Originally Posted by lolagrace

I left the therapists who seemed to be bringing in their own issues too early on. It seemed lacking in boundaries and professional discernment. Of course, what one has to figure out is whether the therapist is really bringing in their own issues and putting you in that position, or, like longingforhome said, are you simply perceiving that to be the situation because you are in a habit of caretaking? I can see it going either way.

[missbella]

Originally Posted by Argonautomobile

I've never personally had this happen, but I figure it would be best to get it out in the open? What do you think would happen if you told your T about this?

I attempted many times to "get it out in the open," which made the situation infinitely more damaging. My co-therapists needed to be infallible, so they ascribed my hurt and regression to my "transference." I've spent the time since trying to understand their training and irrational thinking.

I don't see the client responsible for educating or gratifying a narcissistic, needy or delusional therapist. I believe sometimes the wisest, most "therapeutic" client response is to make a quick, clean exit.

Originally Posted by missbella

Or a client can have longings AND a therapist can have his own issues. And therapists and people in general bent on destructiveness sometimes can be the most expert at shaming and discounting the victim.

Right. That's why I said it could certainly go both ways, and it would make sense that it could possibly be at the same time.

Not sure where the "shaming and discounting" comes in. That didn't seem to be what the OP was talking about in his/her case.

[missbella]

Originally Posted by lolagrace

Right. That's why I said it could certainly go both ways, and it would make sense that it could possibly be at the same time.

Not sure where the "shaming and discounting" comes in. That didn't seem to be what the OP was talking about in his/her case.

OP mentioned avoiding certain issues because the therapist "can't handle it" though I don't know how that was manifest in his case.

I know how my co-therapists' neediness was manifest in my case. Whenever I tried to discuss their harmful behavior, they responded with general gaslighting--shaming, deflecting, blaming. That's the frequent strategy of a bully or someone with something to defend.

[mostlylurking]

I agree that our relationships with our T's can mirror our relationships with people generally, but I don't think this is inevitable. I take care of a lot of people in my life, it's my default role, and I can see looking back that I have tried to push my therapy relationship in that direction somewhat. But my T doesn't let this happen. He shares very, very little about himself. He reassures me (because I worry about upsetting him) that it's okay to share anything with him and he'll be able to handle it. He has muted reactions to most things I've told him about, which at first I did not like, but if I'm honest, I really needed that because if I catch a look of concern on his face I just want to stop mid-story and say "Hey listen, it was no big deal, I'm fine now, not to worry!" So, muted reactions turn out to be helpful to me. I think maybe you just need to find the right T?

[magicalprince]

Originally Posted by missbella

OP mentioned avoiding certain issues because the therapist "can't handle it" though I don't know how that was manifest in his case.

I know how my co-therapists' neediness was manifest in my case. Whenever I tried to discuss their harmful behavior, they responded with general gaslighting--shaming, deflecting, blaming. That's the frequent strategy of a bully or someone with something to defend.

I guess with role reversal, I mostly mean like, when you as the client end up consistently being the one maintaining the therapeutic boundaries and treatment plan/goals/structure and trying to reconcile T's attempts or actions that bend these. But really I'd say it's any case where T is creating the majority of the emotional content in the room.

[magicalprince]

Originally Posted by mostlylurking

I agree that our relationships with our T's can mirror our relationships with people generally, but I don't think this is inevitable. I take care of a lot of people in my life, it's my default role, and I can see looking back that I have tried to push my therapy relationship in that direction somewhat. But my T doesn't let this happen. He shares very, very little about himself. He reassures me (because I worry about upsetting him) that it's okay to share anything with him and he'll be able to handle it. He has muted reactions to most things I've told him about, which at first I did not like, but if I'm honest, I really needed that because if I catch a look of concern on his face I just want to stop mid-story and say "Hey listen, it was no big deal, I'm fine now, not to worry!" So, muted reactions turn out to be helpful to me. I think maybe you just need to find the right T?

Lately I found a T who has little to no reactions and gives little to no input. And I keep wondering if that makes any sense. I can't imagine spending much time with someone like that in everyday life. .... unless we had a job to get done, then I could imagine it. And I suppose, in therapy we have a job to get done, so maybe it does make sense.

But then, the one thing I find it really hard to mention or even identify within me is any personal feelings about the T herself. She is practically like a non-entity. She is again also not structuring or guiding the therapy whatsoever. Everything that happens is always 100% on my initiative. So I still don't know that that feels right either. Even with blank slate Ts, is it like that for other people?

[kecanoe]

Originally Posted by magicalprince

I guess with role reversal, I mostly mean like, when you as the client end up consistently being the one maintaining the therapeutic boundaries and treatment plan/goals/structure and trying to reconcile T's attempts or actions that bend these. But really I'd say it's any case where T is creating the majority of the emotional content in the room.

I'd bail on that kind of "therapeutic" relationship.

[mostlylurking]

Originally Posted by magicalprince

Lately I found a T who has little to no reactions and gives little to no input. And I keep wondering if that makes any sense. I can't imagine spending much time with someone like that in everyday life. .... unless we had a job to get done, then I could imagine it. And I suppose, in therapy we have a job to get done, so maybe it does make sense.

But then, the one thing I find it really hard to mention or even identify within me is any personal feelings about the T herself. She is practically like a non-entity. She is again also not structuring or guiding the therapy whatsoever. Everything that happens is always 100% on my initiative. So I still don't know that that feels right either. Even with blank slate Ts, is it like that for other people?

Your current T sounds more on the "blank slate" extreme side of the spectrum than mine, at least by a bit. Mine does react to stories I tell and does sometimes have a look of concern on his face (which is how I know I feel like reassuring him instead of continuing, when that happens). He is also friendly, has warm body language, and is gentle and kind. But he is very, very consistent... the same guy every session. That doesn't leave a lot of opportunity for me to do emotional care-taking. But neither does it feel cold or impersonal. On a handful of occasions his emotions have leaked through more than usual, and I kind of treasure those moments, but at the same time if he showed me those feelings more often I would probably start editing what I was saying toward the managing of his emotional state.

Can you talk with this T about her style? Maybe she can adjust it?

[awkwardlyyours]

Originally Posted by magicalprince

Lately I found a T who has little to no reactions and gives little to no input. And I keep wondering if that makes any sense. I can't imagine spending much time with someone like that in everyday life. .... unless we had a job to get done, then I could imagine it. And I suppose, in therapy we have a job to get done, so maybe it does make sense.

But then, the one thing I find it really hard to mention or even identify within me is any personal feelings about the T herself. She is practically like a non-entity. She is again also not structuring or guiding the therapy whatsoever. Everything that happens is always 100% on my initiative. So I still don't know that that feels right either. Even with blank slate Ts, is it like that for other people?

If she's really a blank slate, I kinda doubt you'll have the doubts you do about care-taking. I suspect the blank-slate persona is covering up for something else -- most likely poor boundaries (not in the obvious sense but a more subtle emotional vibe) that you're picking up on.

Been there, done that, bought that t-shirt and sold it too -- so, maybe I'm projecting here.

Good luck....personally, when I quit and found another T (one who isn't a blank-slate but has incredibly good boundaries), it was really freeing.

[magicalprince]

@mostlylurking and @awkwardlyyours

Thanks both for sharing your experiences. It's echoing some of my doubts. I feel like a human factor is lacking and like that may be her own defense. So I have a session today and am going to thoroughly communicate my thoughts about this. I think this will be the real pass/fail for this T.

[missbella]

If "treatment," isn't... there's no obligation to stay. I think it comes down to assistance or more worry/burden/drama, check one.

[nottrustin]

It has happened a couple of times that I have avoided saind things for fear of hurting T. I knew things about her life and projected how I would feel of it were me saying what I wanted to say. Fortunately, she knows me enough to know I wad holding back and questioned it. She told me i do not need to worry about her and her feelings she knows how to take cate of herself.