Couch 122 - Doin' what we do!

I'm not a fan of tough love either. These two don't have a solid ground to build from. I want to stand with them and be what I can for them, but I'm in the process of learning that myself. She came from the same environment that I came from.

I want to do that, but I see it replaying and want to stop the pass down. Does that make sense?

It makes sense that you might want to - but I urge you to resist giving in to the urge. You cannot and should not (in my opinion) easily and without it being coercion) control what other people do and they have a right to make their own mistakes and learn from them etc. Not only can you not stop adults from doing what they want, I don't even think it is a good idea even if you could. If they ask for your advice, then give it and move on. It is their life to live - not yours.
I see way too many people as my own clients who have massive legal and emotional problems due to parents trying to protect their adult children and use money to control them. It does not end well. The interfering parent is not usually thought of fondly and affectionately.

TR - let them know that you are there for them and will help them in any way you can, including paying for counseling. But, wait for them to approach you for help. Do not force yourself into their lives. Such interference, even if you think you know what they should do, gets old fast to the recipients, and leads to resentment.

Actually, on a related note, I had an odd conversation with my psychiatrist a couple appointments ago. She maintains that parents, if alive, should pay for their children's mental health care, since the parents created the environment that contributed, in a large or small way, to their present issues - so even if someone does not experience trauma until adulthood, the way they respond has been preconditioned by their childhood at least in part, thus the parents are on the hook.

I say, it might cause more problems for the client if the parents are paying - perhaps they are nosy, perhaps there will be strings attached, perhaps it will make adult children return to childlike dependency. It's like saying parents should pay for adult children's health care because they passed on the genes or taught the habits that led to the need for health care. (For all I know she believes that too.)

Eta: this isn't aimed at you, TR - your dilemma just reminded me of the conversation.

Those are my thoughts!! I KNOW that. No offense! I'm trying to heal right now and I'm realizing that what I grew up in was so wrong. In my blindness I mimicked it, until I woke up. I want to stop it here!!

We actually talked just a bit ago, and I was more than honest with him. My 20 year old. I shared with him most of what I've said here and he is in agreement with it.

I am thankful and hopeful for both of them!!

You have every right to suggest therapy and to offer to pay for it. That would be my advice.

Thank you! I agree. It can't be forced. I just so want it to stop here. New beginnings of different things. Better things.

We talked and he is in agreement. I just pray it's heartfelt.

The stomach flu is in my house. Ugh. Happy weekend to me?

Three cheers for insomnia! Well, I guess I could do some grading. You know, lemons >> lemonade.

Just to enforce my feelings of invisibiltiy I was standing in line to pay for fuel and everyone got serveed before me, the guy said he thought I was I just browsing. What do browse for in a poky petrol station? And at the deli counter the girl thought I was looking at the seafood counter....

Hugs. I get treated like that often too and it stinks

One of those moments where I have to check the user name to see if I'd written the post. (Well, almost. The personal pronouns give it away.)

velcro, when I say I don't deserve anything good, do you see that as in any way problematic? When other people say similar things? Is it the case that only some people deserve good things, or is this something that only applies to yourself? I suspect these are questions you've heard before, but for me it has helped to really think about it from this perspective. (I still think that I don't deserve anything nice or positive, but at least it is possible to problematise the statement a bit.)

As regards your friend - again, a very familiar line of thought for me. It's as if there are only two alternatives: nothing at all or too much. But most friendships in the world are firmly in the grey zone between those poles, and knowing you on here I know that you are kind, thoughtful, smart and funny, and so you clearly have a lot to give in a friendship. You also need support right now, but who is to decide what is "too much"? People like you and I are not necessarily the best judges of that, when it comes to how other people see us.

Or, as my supportive friend put it some time ago when I said something like this to him: "You don't get to decide what I think about you." Blunt, but for me it was really an eye-opener.

And also everything QuietMind said.

And also this:

Fuel browsing - no, that was weird.

"Regular and super. Hmmm. What other flavours do you have?"

You forgot the 10% ethanol.

I may have glanced over to the junk food shelf but I wasn't wasnt wandering around lookng at oil caps and fuses etc.

I woke up a little bit ago and can't go back to sleep so here I am. This is interesting to me the part I bolded. I sometimes have thought my mother 'deserves' to have to pay for my therapy because I feel like she f'd me up more than my dad did - except for the fact that I don't want anything from her - but this part I bolded - if she DID pay for my therapy, would that lessen the dependency and clingy-ness to t? and instead put it back on my mother? this ties in very well with t's pushiness about money yesterday. As much as I have worked to feel differently about it, I still hate money.

And now it's all making perfect sense. My mother "used" money as one of the tools of her control. so naturally i grew into an adult who hates money. and yesterday when t was pushing about me needing to make more money, it had the same feel as my mother's controlling crap, and I felt all controlled again and trapped and like I had no choices and I started to get mad about it but couldn't do anything more with the anger than give her a death stare, even when she apologized for pushing and gave me a hug that still wasn't enough to break the I don't know what to call it. After sleeping on it, I get it. She wants to help me with this money complex, this I know, and perhaps she thinks that if I and/or my h made more money, then lack of it wouldn't have such control over me or something.

I wonder if I can go back to sleep now.....

Welp, I hope I cool down.

I'm so cranky today. Someone recommended me a book, I ordered it from Amazon. Hope it arrives soon.

I'm in a self hating phase again. I haven't been able to avoid the latest round of debate in my country on why LGBT people shouldn't have rights.

PC is often a very judgmental place. (((QM)))

I'm sorry you felt judged here. I hope I didn't say something to cause that. If I did, I'm sorry. I was in a really weird place after t yesterday. Still coming out of it this (very early) morning. I think I need to try to go back to sleep for awhile. I hope you feel better soon.

No, not you. I edited my post - I should have kept quiet sorry.

I don't want to cause a fight

I'm just really cranky.

You should never keep quiet!

And that goes for Crocus and Granite, too.

Art, I saw the post QM referred to and it was not on the couch (or by any couch regular).

It must be the week for Ts saying things we react weirdly to. Or perhaps for Ts saying weird things. I'm still feeling bad about my session three days ago. Hugs.