Couch 122 - Doin' what we do!

Or do that james bond villain hat thing where it spins and takes their head off. That would be cool.

She has pointed that out too - the selling myself short - and that is why I had the talk with my previous supervisor about the promotion that I felt I deserved, and finally received at the end of 2015. It just felt like she really went for the jugular today, telling me I need to make more money basically so I can give it to her. Well she didn't say that in so many words but that's how it felt. We really were not connecting today.

And maybe that lack of connection is what's really bothering me here....

Art -- I don't know if I'm missing something here.

But, I'd assume that she's well aware -- like everyone else -- that if someone could make more money given the constraints they face (E.g. time, resources, life stage, money to acquire education and so on), they would do so? And, so the assumption in terms of people making the money they do is that they're doing the best they can given the choices they face and the trade-offs they can make?

Seen in that light, her comment seems rather odd and off-key -- not just coming from a T but from anyone (or rather, especially coming from a T). But, then again, maybe I'm missing some context here because else, it kinda sorta smacks of her issues / anxiety around money more than your own?

Wasn't the last time you guys had a missed connection was when she was pushing you to go back to school? If so, that's kind of a pattern.

Hey guys. If you don't mind, I need a truthful opinion.

My son is 20 and he has been in a relationship with my daughter to be for 3 years. I won't go into the details but she grew up in the same dysfunction I did and I can see it and understand it. I've tried to talk with her, when she comes undone, and in the place I'm in myself, it's very hard to help her.

They love each other very much and have eruptions that they have worked through.

About a month ago I found out that a grandchild is on the way. I'm so happy for them! They are both very determined and working to make a family.

There was another rupture with them, and it involved her family, which is all basically drama, and it turned into a monkey circus.

My thought is that they need counseling to give them skills to work through issues without calling in the drama brigade. I've been helping them out, monetarily with things that they need because it's been hard for them. Reasons I don't want to explain.

Is it fair of me to say that if they don't get counseling, to learn how to work through this, together, then I would stop my help?

They are both so head strong and we have talked about this before. They said they would but didn't. Is it fair to put that ultimatum out there? It should be something someone wants for themselves and not something they have to do.

Does this make sense?

I told them I would pay for it if they would go. Is that counterproductive?

I dunno. It's really rather my fault upon even further retrospect. I should have read from my notes instead of trying to wing it.

She does push me about the going back to school thing, yes, but that one's on me for sure because I talk about wanting to do it. Every time I look into it, I get cold feet. I think "that's an awful lot of money even for one class, what if I can't handle it and working both?" and then I don't pursue it. So she's right to push me about school.

Y'all, I just realized something else, is when she gets all pushy like today, it's reminiscent of my mother when I was a kid, and I hate that, I hate that so much when I "feel" my mother in her. My mother was so overly controlling. I finally broke free of her, and when I "feel" that coming from t, I can't stand it. I did something today though that I hadn't done before when she pushed me. I didn't cry - for one - and the look I gave her there near the end - well let's just say it would have wilted someone not as strong as her. It would have scared me if I'd looked in a mirror. Kudos to her that she was able to bear it and still apologize and give me a hug. I was so mad I could not speak but it was in my eyes and she saw it.

so much for not word vomiting here. i can't help myself, it seems. ha

(((Trailrunner))) i dont think you can tell people to get therapy, no matter who they are, and have it be effective. But - like the catholic church makes engaged couples do pre-marital counseling? Maybe stg like that?

I agree with you una. It's basically like a court telling someone they have to do rehab and they do it they have to and nothing changes.

I just see it and want to stop the generational passing down. Don't know how!!

Therapy won't work unless they want to change. Do they even admit they have a problem?

It might be more valuable for them to have someone who will stick by them no matter what.

I've never been much of a fan of tough love.

My opinion - let them make their own mistakes and figure their own lives out.

Do you think it is "normal" to constantly struggle with fighting the desire to self-destruct and do all the "unhealthy" choices, versus the desire to do the "healthy" thing for yourself?

Does this make sense? I have intentionally not texted a friend this week because I have been feeling for months that I am annoying the living shite out of her with my neediness, and i can not handle it. My T keeps telling me that this friend has yet to tell me I am annoying her, and I must be providing some value to her...but all I see is my being disgusting and needy to someone who already has a full life.

Soo...by not texting, it has felt like some relief. I don't have to worry about feeling like I am annoying and burdensome. I feel like the longer it goes, the better I will feel in that regard. I have felt myself in these past two weeks shut down a bit. Not texting my friend who was a big support for me (and she is a new friend...which is why this is so difficult), I wrote and deleted many emails to my T, mainly because I feel like I NEED to deal with my shite on my own.

My T also mentioned attending AA as a form of support at our last session, and that I think really affected me. This isn't something that is new to our conversations, but it is something that she thinks will help, and something I refuse to do, so we are at an impasse.

She says she will continue to work with me no matter what, but what if I can't get past this plateau that I ALWAYS get stuck at? It feels impossible.

Yeah..as hard as it may be, if they don't seem willing to do therapy, they probably will see your ultimatium as something negative versus something positive.

I am not a parent, so really...I have no clue. I"m sorry

Or really, I could have just quoted these guys

Yes, I relate to the feelings you describe. For me, it's due to my deep self-loathing and self-hatred of myself.

Because I loathe myself, doing "healthy" things feels "wrong", like I don't deserve it. Like I must be unhappy and miserable AND deal with things myself so I'm no a huge burden to the people I care about.

I told my T (while a blubbering mess!) that I'm scared I'll be "too much" for her, that her patience will run out because I keep pushing her away and hurting her.

(((Trailrunner))) I wish I had words of wisdom that could help. I do think unaluna's probably right though, you can't really force somebody to get therapy and have it be effective. I like the suggestion of pre-marital counseling. my husband is totally against going 'into' counseling himself long term (even though I know it would benefit him) but he did agree to brief pre-marital counseling before we got married. somehow that was different and was ok with him. so maybe?

Yes, it is definitely related to self-hatred, but...so what? If I feel like I don't deserve anything good, is that so bad?

I have also told my T i thought I was "too much" in general...but it really has peaked with this new friend. SHe keeps caring, and its weird, and I need to tone down my expectations before I become the crazy person to her. Maybe i already am, who knows? This is why less contact is always better.

I just sent an email to t telling her why I got upset and gave her that look of death before I left today.

I think I am now going to have a glass of wine.

I am 54 years old and I am still letting my mother f-up my life. What in the sam hell is wrong with me?!

I love this song so much. It warms my heart.

Honestly velcro, I feel the same way. "I don't deserve anything good".

I found this in a book recently which I think fuels the belief "I am bad. I don't deserve good") (Sorry I don't know what your upbringing was like) :
1. I am being hurt, emotionally or physically, by a parent or other trusted adult.
2. Based on how I think about the world thus far, this injury can only be due to one of two things: Either I am bad or my parent is.
3. I have been taught by other adults, either at home or in school, that parents are always right, and always do things for your own good. (Any other alternative is very frightening.) When they occasionally hurt you, it is for your own good, because you have been bad. This is called punishment.
4. Therefore, it must be my fault that I am being hurt, just as my parent says. This must be punishment. I must deserve this.
5. Therefore, I am as bad as whatever is done to me (the punishment must fit the crime: Anything else suggests parental badness, which I have rejected). I am bad because I have been hurt. I have been hurt because I am bad.
6. I am hurt quite often, and/or quite deeply, therefore I must be very bad.

I've a friend who thinks similarly of himself - he periodically apologises for "being a burden" to me. Doesn't believe me when I say I really don't find him a burden (I really, really, really don't find him a burden, don't think he's crazy etc) and I care very deeply for him.

Recently he said to me I was a caring person and I didn't accept the compliment - I said I feel I'm selfish, uncaring, he probably finds me horrible...and he brought up a good point: I'm making assumptions about what he feels about me. In the same way he's assuming that I find him a burden when I genuinely don't. I'm a "friends for life" kind of person.

I really relate to toning down expectations - because so many times I've proven to be "too much", "too negative", "too needy". "always pessimistic", "hard to witness my pain" and plenty of people have left me.

But then I have found 3 people (my SO, 2 chosen siblings I met online) who really want to be there for me, and I hope you find such people too. I think one thing I have in common with Team Me is that we've all come from abusive families. Sorry if I don't make a lot of sense.

I relate, I'm kind of afraid of that too with this gal I met last weekend in the first day of the practitioner training I'm doing. we discovered so much in common when we talked and I want to hang out with her again sometime but I'm afraid to get in touch because she might think I'm too needy. So I won't reach out to her and I'll drive myself crazy with t crap instead of going out and having fun. and drive you guys crazy too. this "not enough-ness" is so deep, so pervasive, i don't know how it will ever go away. just when i think it IS going away, i find out that it isn't.

QuietMind I like your phrase "Team Me". I feel lately like I'm on the verge of creating one of my own, but.... can't seem to push past the fear of opening myself up....

... and I can barely keep my eyes open. Trying to stay awake til my son gets home, he's out with his friends, of course. H is out on a job, I have the house to myself it's just me, 3 cats, and a glass of wine. Maybe I'll go drum for a bit. That will help send me off to sleep. I rarely say this, but I hope I don't dream tonight.

Night couchies.

I don't understand how asking her to have coffee or whatever is needy?

Calling her every night at 2 am, needy. Calling her and saying, "I really enjoyed meeting you last week, want to grab lunch sometime?", not needy, just friendly.

Of course, this is coming from someone who never talks to people enough to extend lunch invitations. But I'm good at the theoretical approach.

That fear is so real and valid. For me I opened up real slow. Took many years for SO and one chosen sibling. Other chosen sibling was open about their abuse history so we both gradually opened up to each other over a year or two of near daily communication over our facebook statuses on private accounts with only each other added.