[growlycat]

If your t messes up do you tell them, confront them or let it slide? Whether it is forgetting details, forgetting to do something they said they'd do, hurting your feelings or being late Any scenario. How assertive are you ? Does your t apologize? Do they make efforts to change thier behavior? Are they indifferent or minimize the event? Do they blame you?

Kashi forgot to continue a trauma related conversation that we had last week. And he said that this week there was something he would do at the end of the session to help with my driving phobia. He forgot. I haven't said anything yet but I want to.

I'd love to hear your experiences. Maybe it will give me ideas on how to handle this.

[unaluna]

This is where i think it is the clients responsibility, not the ts. All we are entitled to from them is a decent response, a non-argumentative one, an agreement. Wow and right now im thinking even that is a lot to expect. We have the right to ask for what we want. Its not their job to take care of us. Its their job to help strengthen us until we can and will ask? But after that point, its on us to practice asking on them. Imo.

Eta - because the point is not a smooth relationship between t and client, but for the client to be able to navigate rough waters outside of t.

[captgut]

I prefer not to tell.. He has a lot of clients, I'm not special. He's just a human, he can't remember everything.
But if it's really important for me, I'll tell, feeling terrible guilty.

[1978dd]

Originally Posted by captgut

I prefer not to tell.. He has a lot of clients, I'm not special. He's just a human, he can't remember everything.
But if it's really important for me, I'll tell, feeling terrible guilty.

Thinking from the therapists point of view you are ALL special but she/he are limited by time. They try to give the most helpful advice in the limited time. Yes, remind them of something the said they would help you with. They will appreciate your candor.

XT always used to say that the client is in the drivers seat. Even if I would text her about something I wanted to focus on in the following session-it was still up to me to bring it up. When T would say she would do something specific like text me info for something and then forget to do it- I would just wait and then say hey..J you never texted me that info you said you were going to send. Then she would say sorry Jersey, I got distracted, etc. and would then make sure she provided what she said she would that same day once reminded. But, like I mentioned above, anything that was suppose to discussed in session was up to me to follow through with making sure it happened.

[CantExplain]

I told Madame T all the time. Fat lot of good it did me.

As quickly as possible. I don't let it go. I don't let it sit and fester and turn into an issue. I think that is one reason why I never really experienced problems in therapy with the therapy relationship. We discussed those kinds of issues in the moment; it was great practice for real life.

As far as something from the week before not being brought up, I'd just remind him. Unless he wrote it down and checked his notes before your session, it's likely he simply forgot.

[ruh roh]

Originally Posted by growlycat

If your t messes up do you tell them, confront them or let it slide? Whether it is forgetting details, forgetting to do something they said they'd do, hurting your feelings or being late Any scenario. How assertive are you ? Does your t apologize? Do they make efforts to change thier behavior? Are they indifferent or minimize the event? Do they blame you?

Kashi forgot to continue a trauma related conversation that we had last week. And he said that this week there was something he would do at the end of the session to help with my driving phobia. He forgot. I haven't said anything yet but I want to.

I'd love to hear your experiences. Maybe it will give me ideas on how to handle this.

My experiences run the whole gamut. As for forgetting things, I think that's pretty common, and as others have said, up to the client to say something by way of reminding what they were going to work on. I forget a lot too, so it's not always a big deal, but when I do have a complaint, I usually bungle it, so I'm not a good example of how to do things. Sometimes there is swearing (on my side). She doesn't apologize much, but she says she apologizes all the time, so we have argued about that.

I think I mostly always trust that we'll work it out.

[MobiusPsyche]

Yes I bring things up and it goes fine but my T welcomes that type of feedback. She said she likes to hear it and I challenged her on that; how can anyone like hearing that they made a mistake? T said that she's thinking "I messed up" but she's also thinking "Yay, MobiusPsyche for having the courage to bring it up!"

[stopdog]

Yes - telling the therapist how much she sucks and how she has screwed up is one of the few parts of therapy that is somewhat fun. Plus it has never seemed to bother the therapist really.

[atisketatasket]

Yup. And in my case it was pretty bad mistakes that didn't impact just therapy but my life (and still are).

I tell them when they screwed up at lower levels too (but if it's something like they forgot I hate parsnips, I let that pass). And DBC I tell in advance of her actually screwing anything up. No wonder she loves me so.

I don't see why you wouldn't tell. Una's right, it's about navigating life, not therapy. Life won't always be as kind as the therapist, but sticking up for yourself is never the wrong thing to do.

[stopdog]

While I have never found therapists to be kind or have anything to do with my real life, I do agree that sticking up for one's self is a good thing to do.

[rainbow8]

I have told my T when she screwed up. The main thing, which I know I post over and over about, is when she took away handholding because she thought it was sexual for me. It wasn't! I brought it up many times until she believed me and reinstated it into my therapy.

She has forgotten details and admits she has a bad memory. I usually let those things go by although I don't like when she forgets. Since I switched days, she has a candle lit during my session. I commented on it, and she said she usually had a lit candle during my sessions. That's not true at all! I think it's for the person before me, and she leaves it lit. She also told me to get a dog once, forgetting I'd told her I was allergic to cats and dogs. I reminded her.

She treats each session as a separate entity, and doesn't carry over from one session to the next. Even if we decided to do the mindfulness "raisin" exercise next session, if I don't bring it up, she won't. That's why we haven't done it yet!

Growly, I think you should bring up what bothers you that your T forgets. It's good practice being assertive in therapy.

[velcro003]

i am terrible at it, and never told my last T whenever she forgot something or when i was worried about her thinking bad of me, or anything to do with the relationship, really.

with my current T, it took until 2 weeks ago when she was late, and had to leave on time (aka: i got a shorter time slot)...I did end up telling her it upset me, in a most agonzing, round about way.

I was already anxious for the appointment due to stuff I wanted to talk about, and then her being late compounded upon it, so I was practically mute for the first 20 minutes. She was confused and was like "Hello! What happened?" Until I finally told her I was already anxious, and the waiting felt intermniable, and now I feel like there is no point in talking about it since the appointment will end soon.

She got it right away, and was like "Ohhh. So you're pissed at me because I was late. I'm sorry, I know I am absolutely terrible at time management." (so true) She apologized right away, and said of course my feelings are valid...and it thawed me enough to be able to talk about what I needed to talk about.

Her non-defensiveness hopefully helped in that if something else comes up in the future, I will be able to bring it up easier. We'll see.

[velcro003]

Originally Posted by rainbow8

She treats each session as a separate entity, and doesn't carry over from one session to the next. Even if we decided to do the mindfulness "raisin" exercise next session, if I don't bring it up, she won't. That's why we haven't done it yet!

Mine usually treats each session as a new page as well. If something really was left hanging from last session, she might bring it up, but generally it is whatever popped up during the week that we start with.

[stopdog]

Also - both of the ones I hire self identify as psychodynamic. The first one has no continuity from week to week and has a memory like a sieve. She is the least consistent person I have ever met.
The second one does remember what happened the week before and will bring it up and there is continuity from week to week. I prefer the continuity - I can always say I am not going to talk about something but it at least appears as though the second one has been paying some attention- it, to me, has nothing to do with who is in charge etc.

I learned to be a very assertive person a long time ago through a business relationship. I carry that over in my therapy in being assertive with him. Although at times I am scared to bring things up to him; afraid he will feel criticized or be angry at me, and because he gets really defensive. I end up doing it anyway.

I rarely, if ever, bring up these kinds of mistakes except to acknowledge them or remind him if he was supposed to do something-forgetting things about me, coming late, having the wrong time, accidentally sending me an email meant for someone else, not taking care of an administrative request, looking or answering a text in session, etc. Unless they do it all the time, that seems nit picky to me. If not returning an email hurt me, we'd talk about my feelings about it but not frame it as his making a mistake, if that makes sense. Like in your case, I'd tell him I wanted to address the driving phobia, but he forgot last time, so could we do it this time.

The kind of mistakes I bring up are clinically related-mismanaging transference, pushing me too hard when I was clinically depressed/had no ego strength/many recent losses, mismanagement of boundaries, incongruent self disclosure, etc. As those things have harmed me, while the above have not/do not. These are his responsibility-I should not have to bring these up to him. If I tell him, for example, I feel suicidal every day and have been missing work and am afraid of losing my job because of it, he should make the clinical adjustments without me having to point out how his mistakes are harming me.

I think the way therapists do their schedules these days causes unnecessary errors. The 45-50 minute session was initially designed to give a therapist 10-15 minutes to reflect before and after clients. Now the time is used to cram as many clients into their schedule they can as they often have back to back appointments.

I do think therapists should be using that 10-15 minutes of time to reflect and review sessions of each client regardless of how they schedule. My last therapist did it at the end of each day by writing down some notes on paper. I think problems can be prevented if they do this.

As a side note, I wonder also-since many no longer use the 45-50 therapy hour as it was designed, should they be doing 1 hour sessions now? Hmm.

Therapists are humans, too, and yes, they mess up. No, they aren't perfect.

If you're not going to bring up these issues to your therapist, then why even be in therapy? It seems like it would be pointless to me. I mean therapy is about learning to navigate through life easier, and if we cannot even have these conversations with our therapist, then there isn't much hope for the rest of the world.

[stopdog]

I think there are many reasons to see a therapist. Navigating life easier may well be one - but it is not why I do it. The therapist being human or not has nothing to do with it in my opinion. People are in therapy for all sorts of reasons and I find the "why even be in therapy if you don't do X" to be rather short sighted of a question= X does not fit everyone's use of therapy
Many people struggle with having these conversations with therapists. Not all therapists welcome such conversations. Some punish clients, quit working for clients, gaslight clients when they try to do so, etc. It may be easy or natural for some of us and not so easy or natural for others of us.

Sorry, don't want to go off topic but related to my post - the codes they made don't even allow for 60 minute sessions.

The billing codes recently changed, and I think they took out the option for 60 minute regular individual therapy. I thought there was a 15 minute add they could use for regular sessions, but it looks like they don't have that option.

https://psychcentral.com/lib/cpt-cod...logy-services/

I still think the 45 minute hour, that was initially meant to give extra time to reflect on the client, should be used properly. (Yes, I realize life isn't ideal, but it's sad how things morph into giving the client less for the same cost; also occurring in many other industries)

[Pennster]

I pretty much always tell him if he screws up. Once in awhile he will have a moment of defensiveness, but he generally steps back and sees it from my point of view fairly quickly. In general I remind people if I am worried they will forget something, partly because my own memory is not always so fabulous so I appreciate reminders. I like to give people enormous amounts of slack when it comes to forgetfulness. (I would also be a little bit different in not wanting my therapist to decide what we would talk about from week to week, so I would be more eager to set my own agenda rather have to rely on him to bring something up.)

I hope you can bring it up and that it will work out well for you!

Just editing to add- you asked for ideas of how to handle this. If my therapist has hurt my feelings, I generally say "last week something you said hurt my feelings", or I might say "I felt sad/angry/disappointed when you did x". This has worked out well for me, but I do also think my therapist tends to be a little more open to hearing when things go badly than perhaps some therapists might be.

[awkwardlyyours]

Originally Posted by growlycat

If your t messes up do you tell them, confront them or let it slide? Whether it is forgetting details, forgetting to do something they said they'd do, hurting your feelings or being late Any scenario. How assertive are you ? Does your t apologize? Do they make efforts to change thier behavior? Are they indifferent or minimize the event? Do they blame you?

Kashi forgot to continue a trauma related conversation that we had last week. And he said that this week there was something he would do at the end of the session to help with my driving phobia. He forgot. I haven't said anything yet but I want to.

I'd love to hear your experiences. Maybe it will give me ideas on how to handle this.

I don't mean to analyze you but from the things you're mentioning, it sounds like you have an expectation of a parental sort of attunement / response / remembering from Kashi? So, his forgetting this (no doubt important) stuff and your seeming reluctance to bring it up is likely because the memory lapse is triggering old stuff around lack of caregiver attunement?

If that's the case, I wonder if Kashi has the strong clinical skill-set / therapeutic philosophy to deal with it? Because yes, you could set up a sort of process / to-do list that will ensure that these goof-ups don't happen (E.g. He writes it down and / or you email him etc) but that is unlikely to address your real emotions around it all?

As in, can you both even get to the tip of the iceberg by talking about what is evoked when you are not remembered? So, do you feel like Kashi has the ability + willingness to help you develop a narrative of your inner life? etc.

To answer your questions, yes, I repeatedly told former T in all the ways she screwed up (I don't generally care if Ts don't remember stuff though because that's not one of my specific triggers) -- focused on her clinical responses rather than my hurt feelings coz well.....that's how I rolled with her. It led nowhere -- she was defensive, minimized it, blamed it on transference etc. I terminated.

With current T, I haven't had a significant issue come up -- her style is such that I doubt it will but in the event I need to say anything, I'm confident that she'll be non-defensive and work it out with me.

[stopdog]

I also think some of this not bringing up stuff that happened the appointment before so the client has to guess at what is supposed to be happening is one of those things I think the therapist should clarify at the first meeting - something like "I may mention something but it is up to you to bring it up again if you want. I will not do so for X reason"
I do not know why those guys make clients guess all the damn time while telling clients to be transparent.

[Elio]

My 2 cents ---

It really depends on what the "mistake" is. With somethings, I can clarify on the spot and others I can't. I guess it comes down to those triggered items. If it is something I can't, then I tend to write about in my journal and keep that personal for a period of time, then share it in my journal with t, still not talking about it in person. Eventually, I'll talk about it in person. The whole thing takes weeks; which is down from the months when I first started therapy. The first few times I verbalized, I dissociated. The last time, I told her right away that I was angry with her. She was very accepting, almost excited, to hear what was going on with me. We talked bits and pieces of it for weeks before I gave her the letter I wrote her when I was angry. We still haven't gone back to really talk about it. We are approaching the 6 week mark since the incident. Last week I read the letter again and wondered if we even need to talk about it because those feelings were no longer there.

**ok, *****, just realized that yep we need to talk about it.. not so much the topic but my way of dealing with it. The fact that I pretty much wait things out until their impact is so low, that I get to a point of not seeing the point to talk about it. I guess I have my topic for tomorrow.**

[Elio]

Originally Posted by awkwardlyyours

As in, can you both even get to the tip of the iceberg by talking about what is evoked when you are not remembered?

*maybe this should be its own thread... let me know and I'll move it over there**

Ok, how do you get to the tip of the iceberg if this is a trigger and it comes from preverbal period in ones life?

I know not being remembered is a big trigger for me and I see it come up frequently enough (with t and others) to see it as a ... if not one of the biggest triggers. We've talked of the many times in my past where this played out and the beliefs that have stemmed from those experiences. What is the tip of it? How does it get changed?

So far I have been living and moving forward with the thought process that over time (lots of time), I will learn with t that I am remembered (or something like that) and eventually be able to take the rift/rupture-repair cycle into my other relationships and see that those rift/ruptures didn't mean I was forgotten, ignored, or replaced. Is it just that... working with a t that is good at working these issues over a long period of time or is there more to it than that?

Oh and most defiantly, I am wanting and so comforted by that parental level of attunement I get from my t.