Couch 140: Knocking pans

Thinking about your words too, LT.

I seriously panic when people are angry. I don't have a panic attack or meltdown but I start freeze / fawning.

Growing up I was put into double binds during beatings where I was either too emotional and exaggerating, or not emotional enough and therefore insincere...and it was NEVER consistent...

Same for my apologies so I'm forever terrified my apologies are perceived as insincere.

From my side - when partner keeps going on and on and on about her bad and extremely abusive parents or job she hates or so on - I get frustrated - fix it or change it or accept it and go on, or just stop telling me about it is really how I see it. I can't do anything about it and hearing the same thing for years is annoying, frustrating and pointless in my opinion. Or again - just don't tell me about it -it is why there is a therapist - tell it to them. I was sensitive and understanding the first few hundred times - but really - I just can't keep it up. I don't want to keep it up. It is boring and non-productive. Tell the therapist - not me.

If I exhibit anger - it is not always about you - I am angry and want to slam things - If I am not slamming them AT you - then go away and let have at it - it has nothing to do with you. If I am angry with a third party -again accept it has nothing to do with you. Why do I have to stop if you get to cry all the time? (or whatever - just giving my examples). And over apologizing when it is not about you is extremely annoying and frustrating - it is like 1)not about you and 2) you are not listening to what is upsetting me. You are making it about you again. And sometimes it just is not.
Sometimes it is about you but your emotional responses seem to get to over-ride mine. Like we can't discuss it because if I become passionate - you cry, shut down, apologize inappropriately etc.
And I do get frustrated and irritated by it.

(the you here is not anyone specific here - just easier to write it in those terms)

Thanks for giving your perspective SD. Pretty sure my H could have written the following, based on some stuff he's said in and out of marriage counseling: "Sometimes it is about you but your emotional responses seem to get to over-ride mine. Like we can't discuss it because if I become passionate - you cry, shut down, apologize inappropriately etc.
And I do get frustrated and irritated by it."

Speaking from experience with future ex, it is a major relationship stressor when one partner has an issue of some sort that they seem stuck with for a long period of time. It's not that the partner doesn't have a legitimate issue, it's that if it affects you that much - or even our life together - do something about it.

But, I also think if that makes a partner seriously unhappy after a time and the way they cope with it feels or is damaging to the other partner, it is time for one or the other of them to take a radical step, up to and including breaking off the relationship.

(Not why I broke up with future ex, but certainly a contributing factor to the downward spiral.)

This FWB thing is much better than a "real" relationship to me. One of us can go home if things get tense.

What is fwb?

Friends - with benefits (of a sexual nature).

@LT: Maybe your MC would become pro PC then! Hihi. Just kidding. Thx for your post. I did try to explain things to BF, but for him does things seem very easy. Like: "Just tell me how you feel at those moments and you'll feel better in an instance!"

@QM: I don't think you're projecting. You're right, I think that the same thing is basicaly going on in our relationship. I also agree that, just because people have been save so far doesn't mean that they'll still be in the near future. I know that that's not exactly an optimistic world view, but it's just how I feel.

I'm glad you two were able to work the "name calling" out...
I don't know what to say about the beatings. Just that they were wrong and that it must have been very confusing/painful. Hugs

(And sure it's ok, at least for me :-) Wish I could give you a more detailed response but I'm about to head out and what intended to say is too long to type on the phone)

@sd: I do agree with some points. I just think that when you're in a conversation with someone you can't just go away and "let the other person be angry". If you (not you specifically) aren't happy with someone repeating their stuff on and on, you can tell them in a nice way. Everyone is allowed to express their feelings, but I think that understanding always has to come from both sides.
(I also disagree that complaining about work/current family events is whining. For me, that's just what people do)

I would rather someone leave than get all cringey and crying when it is not about them. That is the same as going away - just not as clearly and setting it up so that they seem to expect to be taken care of. The conversation stops whether the second person goes away or cringes and weeps etc.

And second - yes - to some extent - and yes nicely but nicely can't go on for years (in my opinion) - then it just becomes annoying - it does not matter how nice the first person has tried to be about it.

And people do get to complain some about others and work - but not constantly, every time. And it seems to me the cryer/freezer gets the pass more often than not.

And sometimes - seriously - it is just not the time to express your damn feelings. Suck it up and wait for a more appropriate time or leave and have at it. (not your at anyone here - just in general how I see it).

I remember the Washington Post advice columnist, Carolyn Hax (who is generally awesome imo) once got a letter about this very type of situation. She suggested a compromise: agree on a set time for the partner who wanted to complain to do so, then get on with your evening.

Demunie - I am not talking about stuff like "I had a bad day at work." I am talking about stuff like "I hate my job" day in, day out, while making no attempts either to look for a different job or to focus on the more positive aspects of the job in order to tolerate it.

Both me and my W can become sullen and withdrawn, over apologetic when things don't go well in a discussion, disagreement, or just in general conversation. We trigger each other's negative self talk. It becomes a big struggle because neither one of us wants to cause more problems. And it can be a very frustrating thing because when I go to talk about it after we are doing better, it becomes this whole "who is it about" thing. I often feel like she makes it to be about her. I feel that since I'm the one bringing it to her to discuss, then it should be about my side of the situation and when she is ready to talk about her side of it, she should bring it to me.

I would not deal well at all if someone got loud when I was withdrawing. That would be major triggers for me. If I am able to stay in the present and not go into my head, then I am in a better place to deal with what can be felt as an attack.

In rebuttal to SD's position, if my partner was being aggressive in space around regardless if it was because of me or not and regardless if that aggression was towards me or not, the energy being expended can affect me in a negative way. It doesn't always, but it can and often does. As much as possible, take ownership of ones pissy state, declare it with pride and all the anger one has or leave me out of it completely - take a walk, find a punching bag, hit baseballs; don't slam doors or cupboards while shutting me out. If a fight is needed and sometimes it is needed to expend that energy - then pull me in and let me be on your side. Let me fight with you, us against the injustices of the moment. Or somehow let me know that I am needed just to be that "punching bag" or witness and in the end open up and let me know the whats/whys. Because in the end, I do see it as an us against the injustices of the world. (Also, not to say that you, SD, don't take ownership of your pissy state. I don't know you to know if you do or don't. I am talking about the generic you/partner)

I'm talking solely on how it feels for me and how I respond to it. Defining aggression as anything from stomping, slamming cupboards/doors, tossing objects carelessly ... all the way to punching walls, yelling, pacing.

LT - I think MC is right in that feeling anger is ok. What we do with that feeling (or any feeling) is always the question in terms of okness.

**did I put enough disclaimers in this response??**

There is something about a certain way someone over-apologizes for things that that can turn into a subtle accusation that they are being abused by the person they are apologizing to, so in a way it is crazymaking to the person who is being apologized to and a kind of emotional assault.

I have/had a sibling and parent who does this and it's used as a weapon--so they get to act like the wounded party at the same time they are apparently apologizing, and then it becomes about how they always apologize and have somehow created a scenario where the other person is the wrong one in a case where it was supposed to be about an apology to them. One sincere apology goes a long way. More than that becomes something else.

LT--I am not saying this is what you do. It is about my own effed up family.

Both my wife and I have had different periods in our lives where we hated our jobs in and out for long periods of time (like in the years category here) without actively doing anything about it because of other elements going on in our lives at the time. Sometimes, it is not that easy to just find a different job or focus on the positive aspects of ones current. Having someone there that is supportive, that sits with you while you are struggling (and suffering), is helpful.

This. *puts signature on the bottom*

Currently standing in Walmarts customer service line to return something i just bought

Need a way to play music from my phone in my car.. It doesn't have an aux port.. Anyway i bought a cassette tape thing and then realized my car doesn't have a tape player

Oh and the line is really long

Does it have a USB port? Or Bluetooth? Not sure how old your car is.

I understand that, and that is why I did it for years with future ex. Until the anger about his job and other issues that he refused to deal with in any way turned on me, and he became verbally and emotionally abusive, with increasing threats of physical abuse by the end.

If you can make it work, great. But I think often the feelings SD describes are very much there in partners. And the other partner should be aware of that.

It's a 2003 honda civic so none of that haha.. I have to use a cigarette lighter thing

Ok, how does that work?

Older cars have cigarette lighters. If you don't have an aux port or direct way to play stuff on your stereo you have to but something that goes in the cig lighter that has a USB port on it.. Cars with tape players can play a tape that has a cord that connects to your phone

Wouldn't it be easier to get small audio boxes and use them?

Not sure what you mean

Yeah, not talking abusive and a big part of my thing is don't turn it on me in that way ... over the long haul. Sorry you had to experience that and glad you were able to get out before threats became abuse.

It can feel very helpless as the partner when it goes on over long periods of time, and that can become frustrating to have to sit with it, hold it for that long period of time. In that case, SD does have a point of finding a therapist that can hold it or some of it, so that the partner is not the only one having to hold it for you.

but what connects the cig lighter to the speakers? I thought that was just for charging.

A cable that you plug into your headphone jack on your phone