In Session Today : Part III

T,
I'm telling you everything that I know. I failed to disclose the nature of his occupation, true. I am afraid that now you won't believe me about what I told you about him. I wouldn't fabricate allegations to destroy someone's reputation. I am shocked how grounded I am about this issue, wondering if you think that because I omitted some not important information that this means that I am telling falsehood about what I've told you. I have told the truth. I'm trying to last through this intense anxiety. You said something and within that something you kind of asked if I was telling you everything. I absolutely am telling you what I know. You told me that you think I made an extra appt. due to all of the information in my head, true. The thing is, that this information seemed all so important last week, and it feels trite right now. It feels like, so ****ing what. We talked about jealousy and I stated it as a matter of fact. I am struggling with labeling myself with such a loaded emotion as it has a negative connotation. When I was a child, I feel like because I was a girl that I was unimportant. I don't know how I am going to make it through tomorrow. This again feels like something I have to tell you, and tomorrow, I will probably wonder what the hell my problem was. I don't get it. I feel like I am trying to get at something and I just want to put it into words. I don't want to go into detail here. I worry that I was needy back then and that everything is my fault. I feel ashamed about who I was I don't know if all of this is something of importance or if it is just nothing and I am just making a big deal out of it. I am trying the best that I can, I am trusting you with these vulnerable things. I don't know what you are thinking. I don't know if I am frustrating you, if you have an idea of what my issue is but I don't.

I have a good grasp on the issue I am having, and I hope it makes sense to you. I hope you understand what I am saying because that is what I need.

Told t the story of how my weekend went. She cracked up all the way through the ridiculous first bit where one of my very-drunk-and-also-very-engaged co-workers took off her shirt and threw herself at one of the psych interns and me ("that's what it looks like to be an externalizer," said t). When I got to the point of the evening where I ended up sleeping with said psych intern, she raised her eyebrows and said, "way to bury the lead!"

It was odd... I have a pretty blasé attitude about sex; while I managed to feel tortured about a lot of things in my life, sex isn't one of them. But t seemed almost uncomfortable when we were talking about the sex part? Usually she sits facing me or sometimes fiddles with things on her desk (to her left) if I've spent most of the session too ashamed to look up from my feet... but during that bit of the session she hooked and unhooked her feet behind the legs of the table to the right of her chair. I've never seen her do that before. And she just seemed... I dunno, uncomfortable somehow. Like not looking me quite in the eye, maybe?

She and I were raised in different cultures, and mine has a *much* more permissive attitude about premarital sex than hers does (cannot overstate this)... is it possible that she's uncomfortable with the topic of casual sex? (I mean, she's been a shrink in my home country for 10 years now; even if my culture's attitudes differ from those she was raised with, certainly she's gotten used to it? And has gotten used to talking with her patients about it?) Is it possible that she's never had sex??? (I have no idea if she has a partner or not, though something she said once makes me think she doesn't have kids and wishes she did.)

Maybe I was projecting or imagining it. I know she said something once that surprised me--I was about to go on vacation with my parents (long story) and she said, "the worst thing about going on vacation with your parents is that you can't go out and have vacation sex." And I laughed but at the same time was internally going, "wait, is 'vacation sex' a term? Is it even a phenomenon?"

And another small moment: I'd handed her my phone so that she could read a text message my mother sent me. We talked about it for a moment and then she said, "I'm sorry to say something so maternal, but your phone only has 10% battery left! You really ought to charge that--it makes me anxious." I laughed, but at the same time it was kind of nice.

To be honest, I wish she would do that sort of thing more often. I remember that at our first or second session she said something like, "you've been missing out on mothering for a long time, haven't you?" And I nodded. But t and I already have to negotiate the fact that I long for physical contact and she doesn't think that'd be good for me (and/or that's a firm boundary of hers as a therapist, I'm not entirely sure)... I don't know if I have the energy to get into it with her about exactly how "maternal" she's willing to be.

that sounds like a nice session, Chiro!

Chiro, yes in many Asian cultures, the parents frown on premarital sex if one is raised as a woman. Less so for men, because of rigid gender roles. Some Indian groups still practice arranged marriage too. And yes, going on vacation with your parents, especially south asian traditional parents, means no sex on vacation. Really can't overstate this. I know people who are raised that petting and making out shouldn't be done until you're married.

Here's a link I found on Indian concepts of sexuality: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3705691/

Many second generation immigrants face a culture clash between the dominant western culture and their parents raising them...

You may like the movie "the big sick". Gives you an idea. Though it's about a Pakistani guy with Muslim Pakistani immigrant parents, it's really relevant to traditional religious Indian family culture norms too. Especially the part about dating / courtship, marriage, overbearing parents bigg on emotional manipulations. Not accepting their child grew up westernised. One line by the protagonist who loves a white woman (she is a therapist!) says he's fighting generations of culture.

Also damn, sorry you had to put someone in restraints

I'm seeing my t today at 1. I'm nervous but...i wanna talk about how I put him in the punitive parent [him] role and me in the traumatized child role again. I had a revelation about it and I think I see a way forward for him to help ....by not ignoring the child part ..that doesn't help...but by him gently reminding me that I'm doing that thing again

So yea requesting the pocket rider brigade.

In!

Me too in!

your pocket is comfy

I've been doing some work on my own . This is what I have so far. Representing it visually helps me. I have more to add

I'll hop in your pocket DNA!

Some sessions, I just feel picked apart and picked on, talking about everything I do wrong. I don't even bother to argue back anymore. I don't think I care.

Hopping in, JDNA. That's great you've done some work on it yourself already--the visual representations are great!

I like your collages, jDNA. Do you have a stack of magazines or are you printing things from the computer?

My mom gives me her old magazines =]

Here's the e-mail I sent T last night that led to him saying he'd rather meet with me in person to discuss (meeting in 4 hours...). Assuming I opt to write up today's session, figure it will make more sense showing the e-mail first:

"Hi Dr. T,

I know we talked about holding stuff till the next session, but some things you said near the end today, mostly centered around attachment, are concerning me. (Charge accepted should you choose to respond.)

First, I appreciate you being so open to my comments regarding the previous week's session. Sorry if I scared you with the 2-page document!

What's concerning me centers around the attachment talk from the end of the session. For one, the fact that you said I think about my relationship with you more than any of your other clients. First, I feel weird being compared to your other clients--we're all different people bringing different issues to therapy. Plus, I suspect some of them probably think about your relationship more than you know--they just don't tell you about it. (I used to be one of those people with [ex-T and MC], but I eventually came to learn that it's better to talk about it than to keep it all inside. Even though sometimes it leads to painful discussions.)

But I think the big thing that's upsetting me is that you said you feel I think about you more than is good for me and more than is healthy. I feel really judged by that statement. Like you think there's something wrong with me. And you seemed to think I'd only been seeing you 3 months (closer to 5), plus you asked about how long I'd been seeing [ex-T and MC} before getting attached. So I get the sense you think I've attached too quickly. Which also makes me feel like you think there's something wrong with me.

I guess I just don't understand, how, knowing my history with [MC]--which is a big part of what brought me to start seeing you in the first place--(plus now that you know the stuff with that teacher) you seem surprised that I'm attached to you or that I think about my relationship with you outside of session. I feel like it would have been stranger had I NOT gotten attached to you. (Though that could have suggested it was in fact something about [MC] specifically, I guess...)

I'm concerned that much of this--that I in general--seems to puzzle you. I'm worried that you're not actually equipped to handle attachment from a client. I don't mean in the sense of psychodynamic training--I know you said multiple times that you're not trained in that, and I get that. OK. But with some of the stuff I mentioned above...I worry that you just don't know what to do with me, how to handle this stuff. I'm afraid I'll get more attached, and you'll be bothered and/or confused by it, won't know how to deal with it, and end up really hurting me in the process.

I've liked working with you so far--I think you've had some really good insights and a different perspective than what I've found with [ex-T or MC]. It would be nice if we could continue working together.

But please just be up front with me: If you don't feel comfortable handling and working with this level of attachment--or potentially a greater level of attachment and/or transference, should that develop--from a client, just let me know now, and I'll go elsewhere. I'd certainly rather know now than, say, 6 months from now, when I could potentially be more attached. Note that if you say you don't feel comfortable, I'm not going to classify that as abandonment because I'm the one asking about this. I just want to know if you think you can really help me with the attachment stuff...including if that involves attachment to you.
Thanks,
LT"

"LT - Replying to your email is above what I am comfortable doing through email. Did you want to come in Wednesday or Thursday this week, or would you prefer to wait until next week to talk about it?"

(I wanted to be like, "Of course I don't want to wait till next week! If I did, uh, I wouldn't have e-mailed." Instead, I just asked what he had available.)

Good email, very well written

My T has said the same about me with other clients but I didn't mind it, I took it as specialness. We all see things differently though. I hope all goes well for you! Attachment is an awful thing to talk about and feel

Excited to show t

LT, within that email is the topic that comes up some times about when T's feel second guessed or called out. I loved that dialogue from In Treatment in which Paul says a therapy joke is "The Client Is Always Wrong". I don't think your T will react badly to attachment issues, but he might feel his authority is challenged and refuse to be called out by a client. I do think he has been interested and invested in you/ your story, and come through really well. I hope he handles this with aplomb.

(((LT))) some meandering thoughts: Exactly how do you define attachment? I tend to hear it as, "When i say jump, you say how high." That is DEFINITELY from my raising up, if we can even call it that. But that is also the feeling i got from the football phone call, and kinda from the end of your session, where you kinda compulsively ask "is attachment okay?" Its like you just want him to follow a script and say yes, but when he doesnt, it opens a door for you to start your weekend process, which is to email for extra contact. What if you just went to two sessions a week "permanently"? Or even for a couple of months. Without having to do the "special" thing to get the second session.

Ok so I met with t and it went super well.
We did our usual walk and discussed the situation that happened over the weekend. I told him all about how I perceived that during and after . We discussed what would be helpful. I talked openly with T about the whole thing . T said before he would give me tons of reassurances and comfort because he knew I was too damage to meet those child parts needs myself. But now that he's shown me and ive gotten stronger I need to start doing it for myself. He said and it seems that I don't want to, that I only want it from him, and why would I want to. But we talked about why I need to.

Came back and I showed him my collage . He liked it. We talked more about soothing the child part, and starting to feel empathy and compassion for it. That that is a good next step

Session went very well. I am glad I went. I hope I can stay in this mindset throughout this week.

Thanks, Una--Your question on "how do you define attachment" makes me think...I wonder if it's possible my T and I are defining "attachment" in different ways? Like when I say "attachment" he's thinking of something different than I am? Might be something to address in an hour...

That's an interesting question about whether I could do 2 sessions a week for a period of time...I think part of why I'm struggling right now, too, is that I'm used to seeing MC one day a week and then T (whether current or ex-T) the other...so I'm used to seeing some sort of therapist 2 days a week. Now that's suddenly down to 1 for most weeks...plus I'm dealing with pulling away from MC.

I think the thing with the script is...I was used to MC just telling me everything I shared or felt was OK. That any amount of contact was OK. So I think it's like I'm conditioned to want that from T...when that's not how he operates. Plus, I mean...clearly it wasn't actually all OK with MC. Which...maybe that's where some of this is coming from, too. MC told me it was OK, then it wasn't. So if T won't even say it's OK...then what does *that* mean? (Maybe that he's just being honest and not making promises he doesn't know that he can keep, like MC's "I won't abandon you.")

So glad it went well, JDNA!

t emailed me at 8am to see if I could come 2 hrs early so I could drive home before the ice came midafternoon. I think the real reason is so she didn't have to drive in ice. I got there 15 mins early to collect my thoughts and she came out to get me so I couldn't really get prepared. I knew I had things to talk about but I couldn't recall them. We talked about the silliness (my interpretation) that I have gift certificates to local shops and I'm feeling intimidated by the idea of going into shops. I felt too happy today. Not that it is bad to be happy, but that I seemed more bubbly on the outside than I felt on the inside. I wanted to talk about food but she didn't mention it (forgot?) and I was too much of a wimp.
I don't know if I feel utterly exhausted Wednesday evenings just because that is the ebb and flow of the week or because t leaves me exhausted. And tomorrow is the pdoc appt...