[Ididitmyway]

This question is for those who have always struggled to understand what their passion is, what they love to do vocationally/occupationally to the point that it's been a major life issue.

If you can relate to this, please, share if you have ever worked on this issue in therapy and how was it. Did you feel the therapist(s) took it seriously and helped you in that area as far as bringing you closer to understanding of what you are supposed to be doing with yourself and your time? Or did you feel that the therapist was dismissive of that and wanted to focus more on other issues?

Also, if you have always had multiple interests and wanted to delve into many things at once and haven't been particularly interested in "sticking" to doing one particular thing a.k.a committing yourself to one particular vocation/career/hobby, have you ever felt that there is something wrong with you because of that? If so, were you ever able to discuss it in your therapy and was it helpful?

Thanks.

[DodgersMom]

yes and no, he has been helpful in trying to give ideas of jobs i could do/like, however I'm failing miserably at getting any in those areas so I'm basically giving up

i did tell him about what i wanted to do before i settled in life, and how i lost interest since then. it went alright i guess

i am at the point, i dont feel i have a calling. I'll probably just settle as I've done most my life sadly

but its a good idea to mention this sure, your T might be helpful

I did. It was the one last hurdle that I needed to get through before terminating attachment therapy. I had as much difficulty getting to this part of my journey as I did detaching from the perfect mother idea. My aspirations, education and lack of career goals were still hooked to what I believed the parent unit wanted. It was very difficult to go back and finish things I left up in the air and to make amends with educators that had supported me back then. When I entered therapy I was in deep shame and quite a bit of denial about what I wanted out of life. Working with my therapist I went from shame to embarrassment to opening up doors to find what I wanted. I was able to go back to school in a field of my choosing and follow my own path. I felt I was to old body wise to do well in my childhood dream job, which I had been directed away from by my mom. Interestingly a few years ago, my mother was pushing me to pursue that dream and had no memory of the nasty comments she made to discourage me.
I must say I finally know what it is to feel happy and pleased about who I am in this world and to also feel I am making a contribution.

For me this would not have happened if I did not luck into having good therapists and them willing to talk about it as much as needed. My therapists helped me build new messages and today still cheerlead me after therapy while I pursue turning my hobby into a career of my choosing.

[Ididitmyway]

Originally Posted by DodgersMom

yes and no, he has been helpful in trying to give ideas of jobs i could do/like, however I'm failing miserably at getting any in those areas so I'm basically giving up

i did tell him about what i wanted to do before i settled in life, and how i lost interest since then. it went alright i guess

i am at the point, i dont feel i have a calling. I'll probably just settle as I've done most my life sadly

but its a good idea to mention this sure, your T might be helpful

I resonate with feeling like giving up on yourself.

My thing is a bit different. I have just discovered that there is a term coined for people like myself who have many passions at once and don't want to commit to any of them in order to make it a career. The term is a "scanner" and it was coined by an amazing career coach Barbara Sher whose book "I could do anything if I only knew what it was" I read about 20 years ago. I can say that that book was the beginning of my detachment from all the social engineering and family programming I was operating under until that point. It helped me to start seeing how the goals I was setting for myself and could never achieve were not really my goals, they were the goals other people set for me but I was unaware of that.

Then just yesterday I've come across another book of hers titled "I refuse to choose" about people like myself with multiple passions for different things, who have never felt "normal" because they didn't want to make a career out of any of those passions, or they wanted to be able to make money by doing one of those things but couldn't commit to it. I read the book's description, then went on youtube to check if she had videos about that, which she did. I was blown away by her saying that there is no need to commit to anything and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that just like there is nothing wrong with pursuing multiple interests/passions with no intention to make a career/money out of it. Moreover, she said, not only there is nothing wrong with doing that but it is a special gift that not many people have. This type of mind is genetically wired to look at things holistically, to find connections between various areas of life and to want to study many of them in order to get the bigger picture. This is the exact description of me, so it was such a revelation to hear it.

But she is not only helping "scanners" to feel comfortable in their own skin and to enjoy all things they want to pursue. She generally helps people get in touch with their true potential and to realize it one way or another. Very inspirational woman. Here is one short video of her talking about the importance of doing what you love

You can find all her books and talks if you want to hear more on this subject.

Oh, yes, in terms of how my therapy has helped me with this, it hasn't. At all. Being able to realize my true potential has always been one of the major themes of my life, if not THE major one, but it was completely dismissed by all my therapists.

I spent a lot of time with my 2nd T discussing what I should major in. What my "calling" was. I had just dropped out of my web design program.

I was one of those people for the longest that has a lot of interests that I was interested in pursuing career wise. The difference for me is that there's a marked difference between possible interests and passion. I am 100% passionate about what I'm doing now, and while I don't know that I'll be a teacher forever, I probably always will be in education in some capacity.

My T at the time was happy to let me discuss the career stuff, but I didn't find the exercise terribly helpful. He later told me that he felt that me discussing my "what now" was just a way for me to avoid the real issue that I was having: why I dropped out of college in the first place.

Possible trigger:

I was raped in my campus apartment, and couldn't cope. So I tried to commit suicide and was IP for a month afterwards. I just couldn't go back.

In retrospect he was right. It wasn't until I emotionally dealt with that event that I was able to really find my calling.

[here today]

I haven’t experienced what you have, Ididitmyway, but I resonated somewhat with your situation, especially as you described in your second post.

I had lots of ineffective to harmful therapy, as you know, and so I did a lot of research on my own and found that Kohut’s ideas on the self, and the ways that its development can get derailed so to speak, explained a lot of my trouble to me.

He postulated that children need adults to function good-enough in 3 ways to support the development of a healthy self. His theory, to me, goes beyond just attachment to other ways in which caregivers or extended family members provide, if the child is lucky, what he or she needs, eventually, internally in order to have a healthy (adult) self. The 3 poles of the self (as you probably know, but for anybody else that might be interested) are grandiosity, idealization, and twinship or alter ego. Part of where my development fell down, I think, or got derailed was that I never felt enough “like” or accepted by anybody in my extended family environment to feel OK being myself in the world and developing my own ideas about a “calling”.

I don’t know that I have multiple passions like you but I was a girl science geek in a culture and time period where women were supposed to be homemakers – or nurses or teachers. There were some in America who weren’t, of course – but not in my family. I went off to pursue math and science in college and work in that field – but I didn’t fit in anywhere socially. When I was social I tried to follow the social rules as I had learned them as a child. I therefore “fit in”, of a sort, but never as myself. I was therefore “fake”, but not consciously so. Consciously I was honestly being the best person that I could.

Eventually all that fell apart and therapists have not helped me much with that at all. But in the last year I have been trying to consciously focus on the feeling of being “like” other people now that I am having more to do with them, and it feels like I’m growing a self that can not only idealize others and feel grandiose about myself but also begin to feel like a real part of groups of people beyond myself. It’s very hard to describe. I did feel a part of my family growing up, but it’s probably because all the women were enmeshed. I’ve now separated from them so this is extremely different. I’m “too old” to have a calling now, but it’s more like just being myself, within the group, is a calling. And I’m loving it, or beginning to.

It’s something I think more therapists should be aware of. Especially for clients, like me, who had problems with identity.

I have never had problems finding my callings on my own and in my own ways and time frame as far as I remember. But I do relate to having many different (often interrelated) interests. I have also moved geographically a lot all over the map, not wanting to settle in just one place. I have juggled these in generally often unconventional career structures pretty much in my whole life, often ignoring more cautious and traditional advice. I have also experienced several periods of intense existential angst throughout my life, when I tend to doubt the value of the whole thing, question my own motivations, etc. These periods have very significantly decreased in terms of intensity and anxiety level though with experience and the repetitions. In fact, I am just in new career transition phase like that right now, except that now most people I consult with tend to be very supportive, I guess in part because my history at this point speaks for itself. Integrating personal history into it, I think that my psychological development and independence received great influence from my father, who was different in some ways but certainly similarly independent, a self-made man, and a very inspiring figure of my life.

"Being able to realize my true potential has always been one of the major themes of my life, if not THE major one" - I very much relate to this statement. In my case, it was never dismissed by the two therapists (especially one of them) since this aspect of me was the primary thing I brought to therapy, with both Ts. I wanted to focus primarily two aspects of my life in therapy: a nasty addiction issue and career-related things. One of them handled it very poorly though and kept trying to pathologize it, wanting me to focus on things that interested him and had very minimal relevance to my own life. I tried to look at it "his way" but when I finally confidently concluded that they had little to do with me and more with his interests/values/personality, I cut all connection with him for good (recently). I can easily see that T becoming very harmful for vulnerable people, the way he works. My other T has always been very open and supportive but apart from the moral support and a quite pleasant "peer relationship" sort of thing, he has not offered much really, especially for the high fee that he charged for sessions. I do keep in touch with this T though, we exchange emails sometimes. I do because I like him as a person and sometimes he gives me useful practical information (now, interestingly not when I was seeing him in sessions).

In summary, I also believe that some people are not meant to stick with a specific career route for life or even very long, and that the personal abilities (e.g. synthesis of different areas and coming up with new, unusual combinations) can be a great strength, something that more "linear" minds would not be comfortable with or could not do similarly effectively. So perhaps the calling in this case could be the synthesis and creative way of approaching many projects? I don't see any problem with that as long as we are able to also give ourselves a certain level of practical security, so that the lack of more basic needs will not interfere with the "higher" vocations and interests. Try to make sure that "Maslow's Pyramid" is not merely a house of cards. The latter aspect has turned out to be my most important challenge personally, and I see similar in many others whose interests are targeted towards the more abstract, varied domains of self-actualization. What is the most useful for me right now is occasional specific, focused, practical advice from professionals, like business consultants, accountants etc. I find the rest quit easy to figure out and can use emotional support and connection from everyday relationships much better than from therapists.

ETA: I did wonder what was wrong with me, for many years, when I was younger. The way I see many therapists' approach though, I think they too often pathologize these kind of patterns in very superficial ways, e.g. attachment issues or problems with commitment. Sure, some of my patterns can be interpreted that way, I do not deny it. But I don't see what the problem is as long as someone is satisfied with the way they are and do not cause harm to others. If the lifestyle and choices are not satisfying to the individual, that is of course a different issue.

Originally Posted by here today

I haven’t experienced what you have, Ididitmyway, but I resonated somewhat with your situation, especially as you described in your second post.

I had lots of ineffective to harmful therapy, as you know, and so I did a lot of research on my own and found that Kohut’s ideas on the self, and the ways that its development can get derailed so to speak, explained a lot of my trouble to me.

He postulated that children need adults to function good-enough in 3 ways to support the development of a healthy self. His theory, to me, goes beyond just attachment to other ways in which caregivers or extended family members provide, if the child is lucky, what he or she needs, eventually, internally in order to have a healthy (adult) self. The 3 poles of the self (as you probably know, but for anybody else that might be interested) are grandiosity, idealization, and twinship or alter ego. Part of where my development fell down, I think, or got derailed was that I never felt enough “like” or accepted by anybody in my extended family environment to feel OK being myself in the world and developing my own ideas about a “calling”.

I don’t know that I have multiple passions like you but I was a girl science geek in a culture and time period where women were supposed to be homemakers – or nurses or teachers. There were some in America who weren’t, of course – but not in my family. I went off to pursue math and science in college and work in that field – but I didn’t fit in anywhere socially. When I was social I tried to follow the social rules as I had learned them as a child. I therefore “fit in”, of a sort, but never as myself. I was therefore “fake”, but not consciously so. Consciously I was honestly being the best person that I could.

Eventually all that fell apart and therapists have not helped me much with that at all. But in the last year I have been trying to consciously focus on the feeling of being “like” other people now that I am having more to do with them, and it feels like I’m growing a self that can not only idealize others and feel grandiose about myself but also begin to feel like a real part of groups of people beyond myself. It’s very hard to describe. I did feel a part of my family growing up, but it’s probably because all the women were enmeshed. I’ve now separated from them so this is extremely different. I’m “too old” to have a calling now, but it’s more like just being myself, within the group, is a calling. And I’m loving it, or beginning to.

It’s something I think more therapists should be aware of. Especially for clients, like me, who had problems with identity.

here today - I relate so much to your life story and I admire your tenacity to continue the healing process on your own. Here's to women warrior strength to keep you moving forward and inspiring others. Thank you for sharing.

[Ididitmyway]

Thank you all for your thoughts.

Xynestesia and HereToday, thank you for your very thoughtful posts.

My historical development of finding "my thing" was different, but some of your experiences resonate.

Like you, HT, I was suffering in my younger years from what can be called a lack of sense of identity or, as I prefer to call it, a sense of belonging somewhere. I think, longing to belong somewhere, finding our "tribe", "our people", be it a family, a community, a group of some sort, some social structure that accepts you for who you are, that gives support and protection in difficult times, gives you identity (knowing who you are) just by you being a part of it - yeah, I think, this is universal human longing..But some people may not have experienced it..so I don't know..I know I have. It was a long time ago though and I am glad I am not in that emotional space any more. Because what I hate the most is to suppress my true nature in favor of "fitting" into any social structure or in favor of keeping a relationship going and not being rejected. I was never goo at it anyway, so I finally realized that there is no point in trying because all it does is that it only makes me suffer but it doesn't help me "fit in" any better. Once I decided not to worry about being accepted anywhere or by anyone my life improved greatly.

As to "passion" or "calling", I think, I may not be using the right terms to explain what I mean. I think, the word "bliss" would describe it better. Like in the popular cliche "find your bliss"..

When I think of bliss I see a little kid running on the beach, slapping the waves with his/her little hands and feet, forming shapes from the sand and not caring about anything because he/she is fully immersed in the joy of what he/she is doing.

This is what I mean, I guess. If any of you have been able to find something that would allow you to immerse yourself in that activity to the point that you completely forget who you are, where you are, what time it is. When you are in that space, there is no thinking involved and things like "identity", "self", "career", "occupation" etc don't even exist. Nothing exists there except your highest joy.

I've been able to experience this when I painted, when I did graphic logo design and, sometimes, when I was able to connect with other people on the most genuine level. This place to me is where Life itself lives and if therapy doesn't help people to get to that place, then to me it makes no sense.

I don't know if this makes sense because this is coming from a pure inner experience, not from logic.

I will post more about it later.

What you have described in this last post about "bliss" reminds me of the idea of "Flow", proposed my Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi. If that idea strikes a chord with you, that is something I have experienced many times throughout my life, starting from young childhood, in relation to many activities. I also like to describe it as a state of total merging with environment and experience. The thing about it for me though is that they are states with variable levels of engagement, intensity, length of time - but they are never permanent or last beyond a few hours or days at a time (for me at least). Then there are of course the intervals between such states, typically much longer than the harmonious, merging states. And yes, the longing. For me, the more I experience these states, the more I tend to feel that I am connected to my most genuine inner source, a source of identity, even though the actual moments of joy feel more like a loss of even wanting to know who I am and what I look for, more like a blurring or loss of boundaries between internal and external, a loss of separation. I liked the way you described it, it resonates with me.

For, me, actually some of my biggest issues in life, the addictions that I mentioned in various posts, often derived from a sense of loss of that connectedness - and then trying to substitute in artificial, excessive ways, using mind-altering substances, relationships, excessive work, I even used therapy in that way (so it defeated it's main purpose at those times), many obsessions. Periods when the ability to sense that spontaneous joy was replaced with pleasure-seeking and compulsions, ultimately pushing even the possibility of the more genuine, more "spiritual" experiences out of perspective.

Did therapy help me resolve these? I would say no or quite little, more in a form of masking symptoms in the moment rather than solutions. Even with my second therapist, who is very similar to myself in many (I think genuine) ways. But some of the conclusions from my experiences in therapy have helped to point toward what areas of my life need more balance in order to allow those kinds of "unity experiences" with higher frequency and in more relaxed forms. I also find it helpful to accept that it's unlikely I would ever find stability in those states, they come and go. One of the best kinds and easiest to experience, for me, are moments of insight and synthesis in an abstract sense - I can get these via my science or art work for example, and they make it worth for me to continue to love these parts of my life. They all tend to provide an experience or sense of beauty in he moment, including being in nature, meditative states at times, some interpersonal interactions, and many more. I would actually be sad if it was not possible to experience these sates in many different ways, from many sources. I just think that, in general, life more often involves dissonance than those perfect moments of harmony. The one thing I am personally grateful for though is that I have always had a strong sense of self in the form of knowing what I like and want. It's both a bane and a blessing. The latter is a reference to wanting and getting hooked on obsessive, excessive, destructive experiences.

[Ididitmyway]

Yes, this state of mind could be called a "flow". Regardless of how we call it, "flow" or "bliss" or "sheer joy" or "connection with the Source" as it is referred to in the New Age circles, the idea is clear, the choice of words is just our personal preference.

And, yes, those states do vary in their length and intensity and they are certainly not permanent. However, as I know from my personal experience, they do build up a momentum of energy that makes it easier to move into that state the next time and the next time and again and again. Thus I can evoke them more frequently and, eventually, creating joy or bliss or however you want to call it becomes a part my general life style. So, though that state of mind itself is impermanent, the life style that evokes it more or less frequently becomes permanent. I started doing this about a year and a half ago meaning that I allowed myself to do what my "inner child" wants to do RIGHT NOW IN THE MOMENT. There are moments when if I feel like painting or drawing or writing or swimming or making jewelry RIGHT NOW and I listen to that inner call. I drop everything, all the "responsibilities", all the things I am "supposed to" do today and follow that call, and it feels like I am literally allowing myself to finally "get a life". I don't do it as often as I want to but I try to allow myself to do it as often as I can.

I'd like to get to the point where one of my interests a.k.a "passions" can turn into a vocation (not permanent and not full time but something that could give me a sustained fulfillment). This, I feel, would be a nice point where the state of "bliss" could be combined with some commitment. I certainly agree that the "blissful" state of mind is transient, it comes and goes, but if it becomes a part of some relatively stable occupation then all unpleasant duties attached to it can be carried out without much struggle. Or the struggle becomes so much easier to handle. Like, for instance, if I enjoy taking care of animals in the animal shelter, then even if I don't like certain parts of that work, I'd still happily accept it as part of the "package" because connecting with beautiful innocent creatures would be more than enough compensation for any inconvenience or any crappy duties that may become a necessary part of the whole experience.