T disclosure

100% this

I would have quit ages ago if this is what I ended up with. I need that human connection. It's the only way I can feel trust and comfort with people....and to the level I do in therapy, it is really important.

Why people can only think in terms of blank slate if the T doesn't disclose, baffles me.
Someone can talk about themselves yet be completely cut off from their emotions.
In fact the more self disclosure, I'd say the more cut off they are.
I couldn't work well with someone not in touch fully with themselves.

Two t's ago told me way too much. One t ago told me a bit and even introduced me to her daughter who was elementary school aged when that daughter came to the office one day.
Current t is very private. I know she has a daughter and a son because of a picture in her office and that her daughter is in college. Recently I noted that her car isn't at the office a lot and she responded by saying 'you know there are people in my household and one of them is newly licensed.' Last year I was going on a multi-day hike and she offered me her backpack which really threw me for a loop - she said I could carry her with me. Yikes! I declined. But, interestingly, she told me why the last receptionist left (drug abuse, coming to work high). That seemed like private info.
She was asking how tall my son was and asked, is he taller than me, because I am quite tall. That was interesting! I don't like to get too close to people in general and in 10 years of seeing her, never knew she was tall!

T doesn't have to be blank slate in order not to disclose, my T is quite warm and has told me one or two things in general but never anything that relates to her issues, I'm not paying to deal with her issues.

Each person is different with their comfort level with this....I have no problem with my T talking about his issues with me, again, that human connection is vital for me in order to really trust or feel comfortable. Otherwise I'd be sitting in silence the whole time

If some people like it another way and it works for them, that's cool. Everyone can tell their T they are uncomfortable if they feel it's too much for them.

I guess I really don't understand how human connection and self disclosures are related at all. According to my understanding human connection develops with being together, sharing the feelings and closeness together in the moment. I don't see how disclosures from T's part are necessary for that. To my mind it actually dilutes the connection because the attention is drawn away from the mutual relationship and feelings in the moment.

Idk, it's just how it works for me, feeling like I am dealing with someone who is flawed and not "perfect".... and knowing they have issues like me, its helpful to me.

For me also connection develops via mutual sharing and based on what I know about the other person. It can be just seeing how they behave and react, but for me even more exchanging thoughts and experiences, so information. It also makes a difference if I feel I have some things in common with them. If that was not necessary, we could possibly feel connected to just about anyone we are in a room with, which I doubt is the case for most people. We may ask: what is a relationship and how do we feel anything about each-other? All that can be based on information from only one person and how the other handles that information, but this is not how it most commonly works in everyday relationships. I think many people struggle with therapy exactly because it operates and is meant to be sustained in very different ways from ordinary interpersonal dynamics. I believe that T's self-disclosures, when used in moderation and keeping the client's perspective in mind, is meant to ease the development of a connection via providing information to connect with. Of course if the T does this in a way that distracts from the client and overly draws attention to themselves, then it is excessive and does not serve that role.

I think it is not easy to gauge and dose this. The same amount of information can be just information to one client but another one may latch onto it and would use it as distraction from their own issues, or to take care of the other instead of themselves.

I'm pretty sure the most personal thing my T has ever said is, "I like mountains."

This is fine. I don't need my T to be a real person. I mean, he is, clearly a real person with flaws and wants and needs and vulnerabilities and biases and blah blah blah - just not to me.

I don't want my T to be a real person. Real people get bored and judgemental - I could say something that might offend or confuse or make them dislike me. I might worry about how they're doing and not want to burden them with my problems.

It's much easier for me to talk to someone whose full humanity I don't have to consider.

Kind of like how it's easier to talk to a dog.

This. My T is very real, very human but he doesn't talk to me about things that don't relate to my therapy. I think that's the very least I can expect from him as a therapist.

I of course respectfully disagree, wholeheartedly. Just because he self discloses does not mean he is cut off from his emotions or not in touch with himself. This can be true of course but not automatically true.

That's ok if it works for you. Your post just implied that no human connection is possible without self-disclosure and I was just merely pointing out that those two are not necessarily related.

I personally pay for my therapist out of pocket and I would refuse to pay him for being a friend. For me self-disclosure is a cheep and shallow way of establishing connection and, although it is absolutely appropriate between friends, from my T I expect, whom I really pay a lot from my monthly income, far more than that.

Btw, for knowing that someone has issues and is flawed you don't actually need to know their history. The mere fact that they are human will give the necessary information because there simply aren't any human being who don't have issues or flaws.

The different preferences in working style are interesting. My last t was very warm and helpful but did not disclose much. He was a very good therapist, very skilled yet I was never able to fully open up about my own history. I know it is different for everyone.

For me anyways, shame, humiliation kept me from revealing my history. With a t who has a similar abuse history, it provided an easier path towards trust. There is the pain that comes with human experience and then there is a whole other level that not everyone understands.

Of course those without a shared history can be great t’s too. There is just something about having an understanding with another person.

I agree, it is interesting.

For instance I would run from a T who would share a similar history to mine. Sure, I need my T to understand my history and I also need him to admit that he can't possibly understand my history because my experience is just so alien to him. Paradoxically he does and doesn't understand it simultaneously at the same time. But yes, disclosing a similar history would be the end of our work.

I haven't told her that her disclosures are painful. We have spoken about the painful nature of my transference, but I think she only partially understands it. She seems to think that the pain is because I can't have more of her. The pain for me is to accept her care, not because I want more, but because I don't know what to do with what she offers.

My T has self disclosed but only because she believed I wanted her to and that be helpful. It was mostly basic stuff, but I don't find that I really want to know. It came up because I was explain how she's a stranger, and how it was difficult to remember she was a person too and that existed outside of therapy.
It helped a little to round her out as person in my mind. I haven't asked much, and she doesn't say much. I wouldn't want a therapist that self disclosed a lot. I can remember my first therapist doing it a lot, and in my mind going "I don't care" "did I ask?" "why are you telling me this"

That is so well-said. I don't know what to do about this either, and I'm struggling with it a lot right now.

I was agreeing with some of what you both said...and if I recall correctly, aren't both of you with psychoanalytic therapists, where the T gives you a good amount of space? I've had that experience of being given space to be myself w/o being influenced by the other and it made a difference to me, though my T was too far in the distancing direction which was harmful to me at times.

Not always, but it does seem to me that talking and revealing less can indicate a more solid sense of self or secure person as opposed to people talking/showing behaviors to be liked, to be needed, to manipulate, to influence, controlling, intrusive, etc.

I'm thinking of enmeshment, which doesn't seem to be uncommon among Ts. Likely those who didn't have depth therapy. Being separate from another, but connected (as opposed to enmeshed) can make a big difference in a relationship.

This web page found above seems like it relates to the preferences shown here. Probably nobody is black and white, but I think I'm a fair mix between the 2--I'm not a perfectionist but I do have needs for autonomy. Overall, I am more focused on the relationships/the other.

I'm not sure I fully understand what you wrote but I am very relationship focused in therapy. I've been totally alone (emotionally, not necessarily physically) all my life and I don't want to be alone in therapy. My T (who is an analyst indeed) understands it and I really need him to be very engaged in sessions, or else I will feel completely alone and shut-down.

So he has to (and he does) balance a very fine line: 1) trying to expand the space where I could be me and express myself, i.e. being alone with the other and 2) following me very closely moment by moment to understand where am I - do I tolerate being in that space and filling it myself or am I unable to do it in which case he has to do it himself.

By him filling the space I mean that he really talks quite a lot. But he talks about me and not himself (i.e. no self-disclosure in that sense). He asks questions from me to which I might or might not answer or he tells me how he senses me or what he has noticed about me or he wonders something about me. Typically after some time I'm able to say something, even if it is arguing about something he said or questioning or clarifying something he said.

I guess I was trying to say that I am definitely not mature enough to tolerate the classic analysis as Freud described it but according to my understanding most contemporary analysts don't even expect to practice this way but rather try to meet the person where they are and work from there.

I was wondering about your characteristics mentioned in the article, if you identified with that. Thanks for sharing that. My t wasnt Freudian, but he is objects relations oriented like all of the analysts Ive met. Never came across the relational type but that might be a good fit for me if I ever could find one like that, afford one and went back to therapy.

Oh, right. No, I don't feel that I identify with one of those particular types. I have issues in all these areas. I have been fiercely independent all my life, however without any particular self-worth, unable to really trust anyone but at the same time longing for a close bond.