[ScrewedUpMe]

Hi all,

I haven't posted in a while...I just really feel I need some advice on this issue.

My T is retiring. I have been with her 10 years. She moved away from where I live about 3 years ago, but I still continued to make the 3 hour round trip to see her. Not with a regular appointment, just when I could get there and she had time. we have had a somewhat close relationship as therapist and client over this time, for example I am the only client to have her home and mobile numbers and access to email 24/7 to which she always responds. She has been there through several crises at the other end of the phone.

She is now retiring but offered to still see me and be there for me and support me. At first this sounded amazing, everything I always hoped would happen. But as time has gone on, I have been freaking out about how this is all going to work and not coping with the ambiguity. And the more I ask T about it, the more I feel she is doubting about it and wishing she had never said it as she can't give me any certainties (she said she will be travelling alot). She says she doesn't want to abandon me (I have BPD and am very attached to her like a mother figure) and knows how vulnerable I am. Today T said she wants to find me a new local therapist. I told her I didn't want that and didn't need a therapist on a regular basis. She said "so it's me you want?". I felt so ashamed. She asked me what I need her for if I don't need a therapist. I mumbled something and then said I didn't want to talk about it, couldn't cope and left.

I don't know what to do. i feel I should just stop therapy now. I don't want T to see me out of pity. She has told me previously that I am like a daughter to her but now all I hear is how I am vulnerable and need her support. I had hoped she would miss me and like to stay in touch too, but I'm not feeling that from her side.

I am devastated by the thought of not seeing her but at the same time feel ashamed of being so needy that I want to walk away with some pride and with her still having some respect for me.

Any thoughts, experiences, anything at all would be hugely appreciated.

Thank you xx

[MobiusPsyche]

I can relate to the feelings you describe. It would feel confusing for me if I were in that situation.

I wonder if it's not time to find a new therapist. Even if you only see them occasionally it's a really good idea to have a therapist established so you can turn to them when the stuff hits the fan. You already have a support system in place when you need it.

Seeing you after retirement is risky for your T because she would most likely be doing so without malpractice insurance (because it's so expensive). If anything went wrong they would be personally liable and that would make me nervous on my T's behalf.

[Moment]

Oh Gosh, I am sorry you are going through this. I know how difficult therapy retirements can be--both for the client *and* the therapist. Your therapist has likely never retired before and is navigating this new space too. it is a difficult time for both of you.

<<She said "so it's me you want?". I felt so ashamed. She asked me what I need her for if I don't need a therapist. I mumbled something and then said I didn't want to talk about it, couldn't cope and left.>>

I don't think you should feel ashamed of wanting her. Why wouldn't you? This is another human being that you've had a relationship with for a decade! It's normal to want to continue it, if possible. I don't think you should feel ashamed of dependent-type feelings you have towards another person that you love. Those are completely normal and human. And of course therapists are not interchangeable.

Her question about what you "need" her for may have been sincere but it sounds very badly phrased. Perhaps she is trying to understand what her role will be going forward. I think you could reasonably say, "I don't feel I need a regular therapist, but we have a long history together and I'd like to know you were there occasionally if I needed a session to talk about an issue that comes up." I even think you could say, "I hoped you would miss me and would want to be in touch and it's hurtful that you don't seem to feel that way." The question is, what will your relationship be if she is "retired' from being a therapist.

I think she's handled this badly but, as I said, it's a new experience for her too, to be retiring. If it were me I'd just go in and admit everything you feel--admit that you felt ashamed, admit that yes, it is her you want, and talk about how the ambiguity is hard for you. Maybe it would be better for you both to say that the therapy relationship is basically ending and that she will be available for the occasional card or call just to stay "in touch" but for therapy you need to have a local, new therapist. I know how hard it is, though, to even think about someone new. I'm sorry you're going through this. Honestly it sounds to me like your therapist has some of her own stuff going on there.

[ScrewedUpMe]

Originally Posted by Moment

Her question about what you "need" her for may have been sincere but it sounds very badly phrased. Perhaps she is trying to understand what her role will be going forward. I think you could reasonably say, "I don't feel I need a regular therapist, but we have a long history together and I'd like to know you were there occasionally if I needed a session to talk about an issue that comes up." I even think you could say, "I hoped you would miss me and would want to be in touch and it's hurtful that you don't seem to feel that way." The question is, what will your relationship be if she is "retired' from being a therapist.

I think she's handled this badly but, as I said, it's a new experience for her too, to be retiring. If it were me I'd just go in and admit everything you feel--admit that you felt ashamed, admit that yes, it is her you want, and talk about how the ambiguity is hard for you. Maybe it would be better for you both to say that the therapy relationship is basically ending and that she will be available for the occasional card or call just to stay "in touch" but for therapy you need to have a local, new therapist. I know how hard it is, though, to even think about someone new. I'm sorry you're going through this. Honestly it sounds to me like your therapist has some of her own stuff going on there.

Thank you so much for this. It's really helpful. I also think my T did things very clumsily. She has a habit of doing this. She tends to blurt things out without thinking them through, which I know comes straight from her heart, but it seems she doesn't realise the impact of her words or the impact on me if for some reason it could not happen.The more we talk about this retirement issue, the more she changes the 'rules'. Initially she told me I could still see her, nothing would have to change except that I couldn't pay her anymore. A while later she said things are changing for us. And now all of a sudden she thinks I need a new therapist as she will be away alot. I just don't understand why she keeps changing. I need her to be confident and consistent about this, not wishy washy. She said she has had to rethink what it is that she is actually offering me and that it's not a tangible thing. This is certainly not how she said it in the beginning. It's messing with my head and my feelings.

I did send her an email and said I do not want to be a burden to her, that she doesn't need this in her life, that I feel ashamed of my feelings and that I need to end this now if I want to have any dignity left. I said it has all been about me needing her and being vulnerable and her not wanting to let me down, but if I am like a daughter to her like she has said before, I am not feeling like it's mutual anymore, that she actually wants to still see me or would miss me.

I said I will always be grateful for everything she has done for me and that she has been like a mum, an auntie, a family friend, someone older and wiser than me that I can turn to because I don't have that in my life. But that I don't want this to be a one sided relationship. I said I feel weak and needy and can't go on feeling like this.

T responded that she needs time to absorb it and that she had hoped to be a support to me in the future and that she had good intentions. And it was out of kindness that she offered it but that maybe it is impossible and maybe wrong of her to suggest it. She said she can't say anymore right now because she didn't want to distress me anymore.

I am upset that she wasn't confident and strong in her offer to me and is now considering that it may have been wrong of her. I haven't replied. I have cried and cried and cried. I feel like I am grieving a huge loss without her to turn to. I feel totally lost in life now.

[satsuma]

I'm sure it's true that your T has good intentions. I also agree that she didn't handle this very well, by blurting out the idea that popped into her mind rather than thinking through carefully first and then presenting you with a definite proposal. It can be very disorienting when therapists change what they are saying. I don't like it either when my T seems to donthat.

My thoughts are, would it be possible to get started with another T for therapy, and at the same time agree that you and this T will stay in touch? It seems like she truly has caring feelings towards you, but hasn't yet sorted out what she thinks she will do and not do in her retirement. However much she cares for you, she might not be able to commit to being there when you need her, if she will be going travelling for example. I think a new T would be a good support, even if it feels that they will never replace this T.

[Moment]

I'm so sorry this is happening to you. I think you are entitled to feel angry at her. You feel disappointed, too--you needed her to be "strong" and she wasn't. It's natural to feel let down. But, at the same time, she is human. People we love let us down sometimes--they make mistakes and fail, even when they have good intentions. I think we can be mad at the people we love, even as we understand their limitations and still love them. It sounds like your therapist is trying to be honest. I imagine she must really care about you. You guys have been together a long time--how could she not?

Maybe it would help to decide what you want?

It may be that you want things she cannot give you, things that you did not receive at some point in your life from caregivers whose love and understanding and attention you sought (since they did not fill the need, this made you feel that having the need must be shameful, even though it was natural and normal). Many people have that kind of longing. It's the loss of something that has to be mourned. It may be that this is what you are grieving now, and I am sorry.

But even if achieving that lost thing is unattainable, there is still a real relationship to be had, if she will agree....could you decide on what kind of relationship would actually help you while taking her concerns into account?

I think that maybe she is worried that you may need more than she can provide, but if you said you were going to see another therapist for therapy and immediate needs, and only contacted her occasionally to "keep in touch," she might go along with it. The ambiguity seems to be bad for both of you. Could you agree to something like: we won't meet for "sessions" anymore, but we can exchange occasional emails to keep in touch? Or some limited number of sessions per year, planned in advance. Or whatever.

It seems like you are leaving it all up to her to decide what your relationship will be, but maybe it would help if you put some limited proposal out there.

I'm sorry you're going through this. Even handled perfectly, which I am not sure they ever are, leaving a therapist you've been with a long time can be so heart-wrenching. Talking to another therapist just about the end of your therapy relationship might be helpful. And it might be good to know a non-retired person who can be there, going forward.

[ScrewedUpMe]

Originally Posted by Moment

I'm so sorry this is happening to you. I think you are entitled to feel angry at her. You feel disappointed, too--you needed her to be "strong" and she wasn't. It's natural to feel let down. But, at the same time, she is human. People we love let us down sometimes--they make mistakes and fail, even when they have good intentions. I think we can be mad at the people we love, even as we understand their limitations and still love them. It sounds like your therapist is trying to be honest. I imagine she must really care about you. You guys have been together a long time--how could she not?

Maybe it would help to decide what you want?

It may be that you want things she cannot give you, things that you did not receive at some point in your life from caregivers whose love and understanding and attention you sought (since they did not fill the need, this made you feel that having the need must be shameful, even though it was natural and normal). Many people have that kind of longing. It's the loss of something that has to be mourned. It may be that this is what you are grieving now, and I am sorry.

But even if achieving that lost thing is unattainable, there is still a real relationship to be had, if she will agree....could you decide on what kind of relationship would actually help you while taking her concerns into account?

I think that maybe she is worried that you may need more than she can provide, but if you said you were going to see another therapist for therapy and immediate needs, and only contacted her occasionally to "keep in touch," she might go along with it. The ambiguity seems to be bad for both of you. Could you agree to something like: we won't meet for "sessions" anymore, but we can exchange occasional emails to keep in touch? Or some limited number of sessions per year, planned in advance. Or whatever.

It seems like you are leaving it all up to her to decide what your relationship will be, but maybe it would help if you put some limited proposal out there.

I'm sorry you're going through this. Even handled perfectly, which I am not sure they ever are, leaving a therapist you've been with a long time can be so heart-wrenching. Talking to another therapist just about the end of your therapy relationship might be helpful. And it might be good to know a non-retired person who can be there, going forward.

Thank you so much for this. You are right, it is a grieving process of what I never had growing up and realising that I am never going to get it. Maybe somehow in the back of my mind I thought one day I would get it from my T.

I have thought long and hard about it all in the last few weeks and have realised that seeing T once she has retired is not going to work. She seems to be away ALL the time and it has already been hard to get appointments in the last 6 months and that's when she was working 2 days a week. I need to protect myself from further hurt and feelings of shame and let the relationship go. I have just started an MBT group therapy programme where I will have lots of support for the next 18 months. So I think I need to focus on that and let T go.

[satsuma]

I think this seems like a really sensible decision, and I think good for you for recognising your needs and prioritising this group which is more likely to be able to meet your needs consistently. I really hope it works out well for you.