[Alden]

I just recently got away from an abusive therapist, and thankfully at the time I was seeing another therapist for EMDR only.

My EMDR therapist has become my regular therapist and I have known her for over year because she was my DBT group facilitator also.

Recently while we were talking about the reality that my complaint with the Board of Behavioral Health may result in no sanctions against the abusive therapist, my new therapist mentioned that she supervises interns and license applicants and that she is very thorough and has had to deny license approval and explain why to the Board.

She went on to talk about how she wished more supervisors were more thorough so that people like my abusive therapist don't get their license in the first place.

There is one big problem with her story. She is not licensed with the Licensing Board as a Supervisor or in any Supervisory status.

I first looked her up on the online verification tool the state has and nothing showed up. Then I emailed the Board of Behavioral Health and they confirmed that she is not currently, nor has she ever been, licensed as a Supervisor.

Now I don't know what to do. That seems like a rather elaborate lie to make a point. I don't know how she could talk her way out of it if I confront her, and it isn't a lie that does me any harm.

My concern is that if she is willing to make up a lie like that, what else might she be willing to lie to me about that could possibly have a harmful impact on me.

I hate to throw away our relationship and I do like working with her, but I'm not sure I'm thinking clearly about this.

What would you do?

Do I confront her and deal with the possibility that she may simply decides we can't work together any longer?

Do I confront her and let her know that I can't work with someone who lies to me?

Do I just find another therapist and tell her that it isn't working for me any longer?

Do I just ignore it as a human flaw that everyone has to one degree or another and move on?

I don't know what to do.

Thanks!

[elisewin]

I would confront her (or ask kindly for explanation) and see where it goes from there and decide then what to do. If you won't do that it'll always bother you. Or it would bother me for sure.

[satsuma]

I guess it depends on how central this is for you? Is it going to really hold you back from working with this T?

I think that in your situation I personally would let this go, because I would be thinking that after having gone through a really difficult experience and lost my T in such a horrible way, I would want to keep working with my other familiar T who is helpful and not abusive, and that this support would be the most important thing for me.

Also, it seems like such a strangely elaborate and unnecessary lie, as you say. I might say to myself that there is probably another explanation: the T works for a different board e.g. a different group of healthcare workers or a different state, or works as a consultant rather than as a permanent member - I don't know if any of those explanations really make sense, but I mean I might think to myself that there must be another explanation that I haven't understood.

On the other hand, if this is going to be a deal-breaker for you and you would not be able to continue working with the T as things are, then I would say you should ask them directly. It might lead to a rupture, OR it might lead to a very helpful discussion and restore your faith in your T. It's a risk so I think it would be worthwhile if you feel that otherwise you would end up leaving the T anyway.

That's my opinion for what it's worth! I hope all will work out for the best for you.

[feileacan]

I would ask for an explanation and based on that I would decide the further actions. If the therapist really lied then I don't think I could continue working with that T because I'm a person who consciously never lies. However, it might be that there is an explanation to this story which does not involve the T lying and which does not occur to you. I would definitely confront her.

[StrawberryBell]

Wow, I feel for you on this one. First of all, I am truly sorry about your abusive therapist. I have been through that and it is not easy.

If it were me, I would absolutely need clarification. That is a big thing to lie about. I hope that there is another reasonable explanation. I'm not sure how you would bring it up without sounding accusatory, though. It's a difficult topic to broach for sure. I'll be interested to see how she responds.

I hope that it turns out to be a misunderstanding/miscommunication and you can continue to work with her.

[toomanycats]

I'd have to confront her about it.

[maybeblue]

I would have to bring it up. I would not be able to just ignore something like that. And if it impacts your trust in her, it does cause you harm.

What I would do is preface it with saying something like "I was never this paranoid before X happened, but since that happened I'm having problems trusting professionals." And then tell her what you found out.

I can think of another explanation though. In my state anyone who is getting a LCSW license has to get a certain number of hours of practice while he or she is in school. Those hours have to be supervised by a person with an LCSW license, but it can really be anyone with that license. In fact, while a person is in school he or she actually has two supervisors...one employed by the school and one employed by the community agency where the student is doing field work. Those people are called "supervisors" by everyone associated by the school, but I do not believe they have any special license from the state board. They are licensed just like any other LCSW.

To apply for a provisional license a graduate would have to have a recommendation from both the school supervisor and the clinical supervisor. At that point the graduate has an MSW, but not a full LCSW license. That takes an additional two years of clinical supervision. Following that he or she can file for a full license after which case they can practice independently. Those supervisors might be licensed differently than regular LCSWs. I think it is similar for most professions.

[Favorite Jeans]

It's possible that this is total fabrication but way more likely that there is a nuance that you didn't get. People supervise and evaluate trainees in many contexts and at many levels and it is entirely possible that your T did not or does not work with the regulatory body that you contacted but still worked or works in a supervisory capacity. Trainees have to pass many evaluations before they can become licensed professionals. There may be evaluations at the school level, at the state/province/national levels, at the college/board level, at the subspecialty level etc. People also may work or have worked in different jurisdictions.

That doesn't necessarily mean that what she told you is untrue, only that you may have taken it to mean one thing while it actually meant another. I would not "confront" her as such. Express curiosity if it is that important to you, but definitely don't act like your sleuthing has yielded the goods on her.

[seeker33]

I would ask her for an explanation and then decide based on that.

[Erebos]

I suspect that this is more nuanced.
There could be many explanations for your findings. From her working for a different stare or county. A different health board.
Her specific supervisory role may simply not be licenced, they aren't all.

Or she is indeed a bare faced liar.

By all means ask her.

Is it your mistrust of therapists in general that made you check on her or just a lack of trust in her?
I only ask as really that would colour what I would do next.

[Alden]

Originally Posted by Favorite Jeans

It's possible that this is total fabrication but way more likely that there is a nuance that you didn't get. People supervise and evaluate trainees in many contexts and at many levels and it is entirely possible that your T did not work with the regulatory body that you contacted. Trainees have to pass many evaluations before they can become licensed professionals. There may be evaluations at the school level, at the state/province/national levels, at the college/board level, at the subspecialty level etc.

That doesn't necessarily mean that what she told you is untrue, only that you may have taken it to mean one thing while it actually meant another. I would not "confront" her as such, express curiosity if it is that important to you, but definitely don't act like your sleuthing has yielded the goods on her.

The concerning part for me is that she specifically said that she was a Supervisor for the Board of Behavioral Health and that she was in the position to deny licensure and had done it in the past and had to explain to the Board why she had done that. The ONLY people authorized to do that in my state and who are responsible for reporting to the Board must be designated as Supervisors and this designation is part of their licensure and is public information published on the state website. There is only one repository of the information in my state and it applies to all licensure, be it LSWC, LPC, LPCC, etc... Only one source and one Supervisor authorizing body.

She didn't leave me any gray area with her story as to the exact nature of the position she claims she had in relation to being a Supervisor with the reporting authority that is granted such Supervisors.

That is what is making it so difficult for me. I could try to imagine different scenarios where she wouldn't have been licensed as a Supervisor, but what she described would absolutely, by state administrative law, require that she be a licensed Supervisor. She is not one, nor has she ever been one.

I'm trying to imagine scenarios where she wasn't lying, but state law and administrative rules for licensing are very specific in my state. There is no scenario I can imagine or find any proof of the existence of where any licensed therapist could be allowed to observe the applicant for the purpose of fulfilling supervised hours for the applicant's licensure requirements.

That is why I am struggling. I don't see a way out for her other than to directly admit to her lie or attempt to cover it with another lie hoping that I did not read every licensing law, administrative rule, and requirement to be come a licensed therapist in my state.

That is why I am so stuck.

Thanks for your reply!

[Alden]

Originally Posted by Erebos

I suspect that this is more nuanced.
There could be many explanations for your findings. From her working for a different stare or county. A different health board.
Her specific supervisory role may simply not be licenced, they aren't all.

Or she is indeed a bare faced liar.

By all means ask her.

Is it your mistrust of therapists in general that made you check on her or just a lack of trust in her?
I only ask as really that would colour what I would do next.

I'm very cautious of therapists right now, but I trusted her. When I first started meeting with her on a regular basis, I checked her license with the state in order to make sure I wasn't walking into a situation where I was dealing with a sanctioned/reprimanded therapist.

I was so blind to the abuse that happened with the other therapist and carry a lot of responsibility for what happened - I should have respected and acted on the red flags I saw and I didn't. I don't want to make that mistake again.

When I looked up and verified her license status with the state recalled that she did not have any Supervisory designations. When she said she was a Supervisor, I went back to the state to verify with the state since I didn't recall her having that status.

I don't mistrust her in general, but this lie borders on a personality defect that I'm not sure I can wait and see what other manifestations show themselves.

Or I'm just overreacting.

After what happened with the abuse therapist, the control I allowed her to take, and my very poor judgement in not seeing what she was doing to me and getting out, I have extreme doubt in my ability to make sound judgements right now.

Thanks!

[precaryous]

Can you clarify this: are you saying your EMDR therapist is not licensed as a supervisor or is she not licensed in any capacity by the Board of Behavioral Health?

It would be exceedingly stupid of her to lie about something which she knows you could check and verify. I suspect there is another explanation.

[Alden]

Originally Posted by precaryous

Can you clarify this: are you saying your EMDR therapist is not licensed as a supervisor or is she not licensed in any capacity by the Board of Behavioral Health?

She is not licensed as a Supervisor, which is a designation on top of a regular license to practice. She is a licensed LPCC.

[mcl6136]

Originally Posted by long_gone

It would be exceedingly stupid of her to lie about something which she knows you could check and verify. I suspect there is another explanation.

I also suspect this is true. Is it possible that you spent a large amount of time and energy to uncover something about this T... in order to test her?

I'm mainly just sorry that you had to go through the other awfulness with the other T. It would be very natural to need time and space to recover and regain equilibrium. At least it would be for me....

[Alden]

Originally Posted by long_gone

It would be exceedingly stupid of her to lie about something which she knows you could check and verify. I suspect there is another explanation.

That is a very good point. She knows that I worked 10 years as a private investigator (unless she forgot) and she knows the extreme depth of information I found out about my abusive therapist - information that is available to the public through law enforcement, but only if you know where and how to look and the laws regarding accessing the information.

She knows I research everything, including treatment modalities, etc... I just never researched her beyond her license status because I learned as an investigator that obtaining personal information on someone beyond what they are willing to tell is a violation of trust unless you have cause, usual legal. Otherwise, you are behaving in a way that I believe will damage your own mental well being and make it improbable having health relationships. I've seen too many investigators go down that rabbit hole.

I don't want to look any further than her licensing and break that trust. I'm just stuck on what to do.

I wish I could justify and feel comfortable just saying nothing and moving forward. I'm not sure I can do that.

[junkDNA]

is she a LPC or LPCS

if she doesn't have the LPCS credential then she is not a supervisor. if that's the case then that is a pretty bold lie and I would ask her about it

[SalingerEsme]

Originally Posted by Favorite Jeans

It's possible that this is total fabrication but way more likely that there is a nuance that you didn't get. People supervise and evaluate trainees in many contexts and at many levels and it is entirely possible that your T did not work with the regulatory body that you contacted. Trainees have to pass many evaluations before they can become licensed professionals. There may be evaluations at the school level, at the state/province/national levels, at the college/board level, at the subspecialty level etc.

That doesn't necessarily mean that what she told you is untrue, only that you may have taken it to mean one thing while it actually meant another. I would not "confront" her as such, express curiosity if it is that important to you, but definitely don't act like your sleuthing has yielded the goods on her.

This is what I believe happened too, most likely. I taught in private schools, and most called the group of students assigned to a particular faculty member "advisees" but one called them "supervisees" and this is just high school. Probably somewhere along the line your T worked for an agency etc???? I guess I just choose to hope so, bc it would really scare me if it was flat-out mendacity, and she lied to your face. If so, that would be shocking.

[Jazz1971]

I'm in Massachusetts so it may be different in your state, but we have pretty strict requirements for licensure and there is no license specific that designates someone as a supervisor of Masters level clinicians or trainees. I work in the the field and the requirement for clinical supervision is that they're licensed independently for 5 years (LICSW or LMHC). If the supervise is not a candidate for licensure then the independent license is the only requirement. If a supervisor has concerns about a supervisee who is applying for licensure then they can refuse to sign off on the hours and even address the board, as your therapist says she did. It is an odd story to make up considering the details are unnecessary - is it possible she phrased it in a certain way to make a point? If it really bothers you then of course bring it up because anything is possible and if she's lying that's a big concern.

[dlantern]

Be vulnerable protect what is needed. Admit that you need to be super particular to what the needs of yourself. They do lie, don't take the job serious, are over stressed, going through the motions, just hanging onto the job. They guide you and worry about retailation are being lead on haved form alliances with folks in high places. Please don't put yourself out by trying to get folks to accept you, like the saying goes there are too many fish in the see.

[fille_folle]

It sounds like you're already sure she lied to you?

[Alden]

Originally Posted by fille_folle

It sounds like you're already sure she lied to you?

I'm trying to find a way around it not being a lie, but the way our licensing system works here, I'm not finding it.

She does have a hyphenated last name, so I reached out to the state, even though I already provided them with her license number, to see if possibly they missed her certification as a Supervisor.

[feralkittymom]

I would need to confront her. And how she responds, beyond the factual information, would also be valuable in coming to a decision about her trustworthiness. It is generally an ethical violation to misrepresent one's credentials or scope of authority. My state also has a very specific designation of those who are certified as supervisors, a credential which follows degree conferred and is earned through a combination of testing and years of practice. It is determined by the State Board of Examiners.

I do believe that your investigating her background is in no way a breaking of trust: any misrepresentation of herself as a professional would be her breaking of trust.

[Echos Myron redux]

Originally Posted by long_gone

It would be exceedingly stupid of her to lie about something which she knows you could check and verify. I suspect there is another explanation.

It does happen. My first therapist lied about having a particular credential that was checkable online. When I asked him he had a stupid reason for lying on his website and because I was so attached at the time I didn't do anything.