I told my T some stuff the last two weeks, and afterwards felt that my therapy would be over (that she would reject me). But when I went back it was as if I'd told something quite normal. What a relief to be accepted. I think she is oblivious to this. I don't think I need to tell her. Anyway if she's going to approach each session 'without memory', does not sharing it matter?

[SalingerEsme]

I think what Bion meant by "without memory" is allowing the client to strike the T freshly, without conclusions already set in stone and to let even a client you know very well be a surprise, respecting the mysteries of otherness? I don't think it means forget details and stories and past work in a literal way. Also, some T's haven't even read Bion. I love our forum bc there's so much education in reading it, and some posters here are more sophisticated in understanding psychoanalytic thought than some T's trained differently. I love PC bc of that.

[unaluna]

Originally Posted by Wild at heart

I told my T some stuff the last two weeks, and afterwards felt that my therapy would be over (that she would reject me). But when I went back it was as if I'd told something quite normal. What a relief to be accepted. I think she is oblivious to this. I don't think I need to tell her. Anyway if she's going to approach each session 'without memory', does not sharing it matter?

There's a saying at AA or WW or maybe the dentist!: "Only brush the teeth you want to keep."

It only "matters" to you. What is stopping you from doing the best possible job in therapy FOR YOU? I will tell you - YOUR EVIL INTROJECT! Okay maybe its just psych jargon, maybe it's self-preservation, maybe it's pride, resistance, laziness - maybe it's SATAN! - whatever it is, i do not recommend leaving that tooth unbrushed

[mcl6136]

Originally Posted by unaluna

There's a saying at AA or WW or maybe the dentist!: "Only brush the teeth you want to keep."

It only "matters" to you. What is stopping you from doing the best possible job in therapy FOR YOU? I will tell you - YOUR EVIL INTROJECT! Okay maybe its just psych jargon, maybe it's self-preservation, maybe it's pride, resistance, laziness - maybe it's SATAN! - whatever it is, i do not recommend leaving that tooth unbrushed

Is Satan just Old School for Evil Introject?

Maybe that relief you’re feeling is a very productive result of therapy for you?

[unaluna]

Originally Posted by mcl6136

Is Satan just Old School for Evil Introject?

Do you always answer a rhetorical question with a rhetorical question?

[mcl6136]

Originally Posted by unaluna

Do you always answer a rhetorical question with a rhetorical question?

I don't think this needs to be talked about.

Originally Posted by unaluna

There's a saying at AA or WW or maybe the dentist!: "Only brush the teeth you want to keep."

It only "matters" to you. What is stopping you from doing the best possible job in therapy FOR YOU? I will tell you - YOUR EVIL INTROJECT! Okay maybe its just psych jargon, maybe it's self-preservation, maybe it's pride, resistance, laziness - maybe it's SATAN! - whatever it is, i do not recommend leaving that tooth unbrushed

The thing is there isn't time to brush all the teeth in 50 minutes once a week.

You're right. Maybe it is pride. I don't think she realises I've got all this stuff inside me. My life looks very together.

Originally Posted by Sisabel

Maybe that relief you’re feeling is a very productive result of therapy for you?

Yes definitely, that's why I feel maybe it doesn't have to be talked about - I've experienced the acceptance, and the experience is enough.

Originally Posted by SalingerEsme

I think what Bion meant by "without memory" is allowing the client to strike the T freshly, without conclusions already set in stone and to let even a client you know very well be a surprise, respecting the mysteries of otherness? I don't think it means forget details and stories and past work in a literal way. Also, some T's haven't even read Bion. I love our forum bc there's so much education in reading it, and some posters here are more sophisticated in understanding psychoanalytic thought than some T's trained differently. I love PC bc of that.

Yes, I agree about it not being meant literally. I wasn't really taking it in the literal sense, I was kind of being ironic as my T seems to forget things.

[Waterloo12345]

Originally Posted by Wild at heart

Yes definitely, that's why I feel maybe it doesn't have to be talked about - I've experienced the acceptance, and the experience is enough.

I think it's a huge wisdom or v visible front tooth to do the analogy to death.

You appear to have a fear of non-acceptance, it's going to be more or deeper than this one example I reckon and also why? This is a core hurt that to me needs addressing.

[chihirochild]

Originally Posted by Wild at heart

The thing is there isn't time to brush all the teeth in 50 minutes once a week.

Ain’t that the truth.

Dentists came up with electric toothbrushes; when are shrinks going to arrive in the 21st century and find some modern way to speed this stuff up?

(No, I am NOT advocating that we harken back to the Victorian era and apply the miracle of electricity to the problem of, erm, “uterine congestion” — different issue entirely that Amazon.com has more than resolved.)

[Anne2.0]

Originally Posted by Wild at heart

I told my T some stuff the last two weeks, and afterwards felt that my therapy would be over (that she would reject me). But when I went back it was as if I'd told something quite normal. What a relief to be accepted. I think she is oblivious to this. I don't think I need to tell her. Anyway if she's going to approach each session 'without memory', does not sharing it matter?

I do experience the acceptance in therapy as a kind of haven from the meanness of the world, as I work in the adversarial system of the law where it is somebody's job to tear me apart.

Then there's communicating any experience or feedback in therapy, which I sometimes do and sometimes don't. As time has gone on, I'm more generous with the things that particularly helped me, and don't gripe as much about the other stuff. But I used to think T was oblivious to some of my experiences about therapy and my style of avoiding things, until I read my session notes which were quite vague yet quite clear to me that he understood it and noticed it very well. I think that all my T's have been, say, understated in their reactions. They neither make a big deal of the positive or negative things in the course of therapy.

[stopdog]

I did much better with the second one who seemed to have some idea of what was talked about the week before. The first woman either did not remember or was just messing with me.
But I do not believe everything needs to be talked about -certainly not to a therapist.

[susannahsays]

I like to tell the therapist when I'm angry with her, but otherwise, I hate talking about stuff. It usually doesn't go the way I want... even the times I think I have it all planned out. Even the times I think I have the upper hand and am angry with her.

If we decide to watch what ^talk about. Then we may miss something that we need to talk about.
I can talk about some random **** but that's just the unconscious method of gently leading me to Something more important.
Therapy is like a blank canvas. Throw paint at it and see what developed.
Sketch the painting before hand and theres no surprises.

[unaluna]

Originally Posted by Jessica11

If we decide to watch what ^talk about. Then we may miss something that we need to talk about.

Exactly this.

[coolibrarian]

It's YOUR therapy: talk about whatever you want to. Sometimes this will be deep issues, other times, not. You asked if "everything" had to be talked about. In my experience, if it rises to my consciousness, it needs to be talked about. But I don't necessarily talk about it right away, or all at once. Hope this helps.

Originally Posted by Jessica11

If we decide to watch what ^talk about. Then we may miss something that we need to talk about.
I can talk about some random **** but that's just the unconscious method of gently leading me to Something more important.
Therapy is like a blank canvas. Throw paint at it and see what developed.
Sketch the painting before hand and theres no surprises.

I guess it is early days for me with this T, if I do long term therapy I might throw more paint and brush all the teeth. I'm still getting to know her and she me.

[susannahsays]

Originally Posted by Jessica11

Therapy is like a blank canvas. Throw paint at it and see what developed.
Sketch the painting before hand and theres no surprises.

I disagree. Because I can only sketch my part of the painting beforehand and try to anticipate what the therapist is going to do. Perhaps if I had a therapisty mind, there would be no surprises. However, despite my constant machinations aimed at dictating how our interaction will go, the result is never what I intended. So I can "sketch" beforehand all I like; but the therapist still affects the outcome - and sometimes it is unrecognizable from my imagined scene.

[unaluna]

Get thee behind me, evil introject! Why is my will so feeble as to obey your machinated dictates?!

Originally Posted by susannahsays

I disagree. Because I can only sketch my part of the painting beforehand and try to anticipate what the therapist is going to do. Perhaps if I had a therapisty mind, there would be no surprises. However, despite my constant machinations aimed at dictating how our interaction will go, the result is never what I intended. So I can "sketch" beforehand all I like; but the therapist still affects the outcome - and sometimes it is unrecognizable from my imagined scene.

What's to anticipate?
I don't understand?
I've never wondered what T is going to do. She just listens.

Originally Posted by Wild at heart

I told my T some stuff the last two weeks, and afterwards felt that my therapy would be over (that she would reject me). But when I went back it was as if I'd told something quite normal. What a relief to be accepted. I think she is oblivious to this. I don't think I need to tell her. Anyway if she's going to approach each session 'without memory', does not sharing it matter?

I've read this a few times and still don't understand. Why do you think the T is oblivious? Because she did not reject you or saw what you shared in a similarly dramatic way? Was there a sign that she did not remember it actually?

Re: the question in the thread title, I absolutely don't think everything needs to be shared/talked about in therapy. My understanding is that many Ts follow a strategy to only discuss issues when the client initiates it, they would not bring it up unless asked directly to bring it up. I am not sure how true this is, because I had a T, for example, who was very initiative, but he generally followed how I responded to his initiatives. I liked it because it did make me feel he remembered and was interested but I was free to take it further or not. That approach can also help to stay focused, if that's important to someone. My other T never initiated anything in session. But I never for a second felt that I should talk about everything with my Ts, or even anything I don't want to.

[Anne2.0]

Originally Posted by susannahsays

I disagree. Because I can only sketch my part of the painting beforehand and try to anticipate what the therapist is going to do. Perhaps if I had a therapisty mind, there would be no surprises. However, despite my constant machinations aimed at dictating how our interaction will go, the result is never what I intended. So I can "sketch" beforehand all I like; but the therapist still affects the outcome - and sometimes it is unrecognizable from my imagined scene.

Another way to say this is that you can't control the other person in a relationship with you, T or not T. While there are some people you can pick who will willingly or unconsciously play their role in what you have scripted out, this often doesn't go well either. For example, if you are dating with the purpose of finding a partner who will make a commitment to a life with you, choosing someone who is a player would fit well into a probably unconscious script of "my partners will always cheat on me."

In my experience, scripted relationships and expected someone to follow my script for a relationship feels hollow once I realize what's going on. Allowing the other person to have the freedom to really connect to you I think means you have to put down your script and be there in the moment, actually listening and responding. Trying to force the person to be someone they are not or to say something they don't believe or to act just like you dictate to them will pretty much always end poorly. For me, the only relationships worth having are those that are unscripted.