"Love" in the therapeutic relationship

Maybe this speaks to the "choice" part of love, the same part that makes love possible during hard times in a marriage/partnership and certainly as a parent. I think about the parents of individuals who have done horrible things and I think about domestic violence and child abuse. Love doesn't always fade away, otherwise extracting oneself from an abusive relationship or family wouldn't be so hard, even when the practical realities of doing so are reduced or eliminated.

I believe in the ability to love without choice and I believe in choosing love, and in all forms of un-loving someone you used to love. I have experienced each of these in my lifetime. The person easiest to love is my kid, at times the hardest person to love was my spouse. For me humans and creatures are different to love, although I love my dog more than words can say.

To say the obvious, people love differently and have different experiences of love. How much the receiving of love (as opposed to the giving of love, if these things can be untwined) is what we choose to see and feel and believe, I don't know. At some of the more difficult times in my life I think love was all around me but I couldn't feel it or experience it and part of my healing has been to be more open to it.

Yikes! That is sad. I've even seen interviews with parents of notorious killers saying they still love their child, even though they are disgusted by what they have become etc.

It makes sense what you say but for me, I don't feel love from my parents, or any family. I thought I did growing up because I believed it was "automatic" to love your family... but then I realized, it was only ever rarely said with conditions... and it was never really shown. I feel more of a burden or disgrace to my family. Someone they "deal" with because they feel obligated to and honestly, I am the same for them. I don't love them, at all. I've even openly said to my T... I wont be sad if they die.

Everyone views love differently and that's ok but it's also why i don't think people should freak out so much about client/T love... it's not some weird or gross thing. This "transference" thing is annoying because people say it's in all relationships but it's only a focus in T.... but I see T as a human, no better than me.... and I always have. It's maybe why I see things so differently than others in the relationship.

I've always been an observer.... and I watch people on TV and movies who say "they love" someone and how they act VS what they say.... and then in reality. I watch dogs... just showing love blindly... to them there is no one "unworthy" and really there shouldn't be. We all deserve and need love, from someone.

Why did my dog mean more to me than any person I've ever met? Simple. He loved me. He never had to tell me... he obviously can't... but he showed me, every day. I never questioned it. I knew it... he didn't care how crappy life was, or how much my family had belittled me, he didn't care that my friends were walking away from me and that I had wanted to end my life, he was just there... in his own way, reminding me... "Hey, I love you, you deserve it, don't ask why, just accept it" I once read someone about why dogs have shorter lives than other animals and people.... and it was something about how they are here to teach us about love.

When I first "told" T in writing that I loved him, I compared it to my dog. He understood instantly what I was getting at, because for me, it's the only real love I've ever known..... until T showed me a human version of it.

Now this Christmas, I'm without both of them.... feeling so much love for them deep within even though they are both gone right now. I have my other dog, sitting near me on my bed as I type this, he's also showing love... by existing and being there when I need it most. Dogs are far more amazing then most humans give them credit for, they read us so beautifully

Anne, yes I have seen so many cases when the abused just keeps loving, unable to stop. With a child it naturally is not a choice really. They just try to survive.

In a relationship to love is also a choice, in a long time relationship it is sometimes even the most significant factor to keep sticking together.

Drifting a bit far from the original subject, sorry! And I strongly believe a T can love a client and vice versa. Sometimes it lasts, sometimes it is in a passing moment in a room with no decision or need to name it, start it or stop it.

I told my t I love him many times... he said he's touched... among other nice things. he won't say love to me. I asked him directly "do you love me?". he said "love is a loaded and difficult word especially given your history... I care about you very much"

I'd love it if my t said he loves me. but ultimately it won't fix anything

DP dogs are amazing really!

To be perfectly honest, this felt a bit hurtful. I can assure you the way I love people is not how you ended up hurt. I don't abandon my loved ones. Also the definition of love is obviously very different to you and me. To me it is nothing so dramatic, I see it everywhere and I easily feel love for people. In the very moment I live, without guarantees what tomorrow brings. But that doesn't make me any less committed or loving towards the people close to me.

And that's fine. No need to feel hurt
I'm allowed to share my views. I don't understand or think love should be conditional. For some it is. That is ok that people have different views.

I personally struggle accepting love from humans for this very reason. I asked my t to never say he loved me even if he felt it. I lose trust in someone when they say they love me. I suddenly feel it's conditional. It scares me.

You are allowed your views like I am mine. My point of this thread though is that people....therapists and clients should be allowed to love each other without being questioned or shamed

Yes. I'll always love dogs more than people

Of course you are allowed, even encouraged to share your views. I just thought I'd point it out to you where and why it felt hurtful to be addressed like that, with no intention or will to argue. Maybe you can see why, maybe not. Anyway I do agree with a lot you say.

Anything can come off hurtful to some. I am not gonna spend my life worrying about it or apologizing.

People have said many out right rude things to me here and ya it sucks but I let it go. I can't spend time and energy being upset with every little thing I read

Anyway... agree to disagree. Sure it can be hurtful but so can someone willingly saying they can stop loving people or that some people don't deserve love but you are allowed those views and feelings.

I for example stopped loving my violent and abusive ex. And I am very happy I did.

Well, this is one of those questions/threads where people will inevitably have many different views and experiences given the highly subjective nature of what everyone feels/defines as love. I personally don't have only one definition and much prefer to see love as a sort of umbrella term... not only that, but also something that can be very dynamic and change throughout a person's life. So I won't get into defining what love means for me, because it does not mean just one thing. I also don't tend to jump to the perception of its being romantic/sexual as my first thought - I actually think that immediate perception is a bit immature or perhaps sometimes carries some wishful thinking.

I definitely think love is possible between therapist and client, and in many different ways. I can't say I experienced anything that I would describe as love in my therapy (what I had was more the occasional liking, appreciation, respect, gratefulness), I think mostly because I did not engage in therapy too long and in a very relational way and so did not care about the Ts in a very deep, personal sense, the way I do in other relationships. But I get it and see it reported here on PC all the time, I don't doubt it at all. I do also think that a lot of therapy and the therapist's persona is a fantasy or illusion, but people can perfectly love illusions and fantasies - I will even risk that perhaps we more often do that than loving hardcore reality. I also do not believe that it is necessary to know someone in great detail to develop loving feelings (or intimacy). The one thing, for me, that seems to be a condition for feeling love for someone beyond just enthusiasm or infatuation in the moment is mutuality. I know this is not the case for everyone but it's been the pattern throughout my life, my personal experience. It does not mean that both people are flooded by an acute feeling of love at the same time but, for me, there has to be a background sense that it is present and mutual in an overall way in a relationship. I also share views with those who feel that it does not really need to be put in words - for me it is usually very obvious and better not to break with demands for reassurance and too much analysis. If the above condition is not met, I can still experience very positive feelings and attachment, but it is more in the range of what I said above: liking, appreciation, respect, gratefulness etc.

DP, I really like how you use this forum to express something important to you and do not get the occasional negativity to silence you or to engage in resentful petty arguments. That is a quality that I often associate with maturity

BTW, and this may sound a bit too clinical, I personally do not believe that any earthly love is truly unconditional, including the parents' love for their children or what we experience with animals. I am saying it is clinical because, when I think/talk about this, I approach it from the point of view of a biologist/neuro/behavior scientist that I am... but that would be too much off topic for this thread and would not add to the discussion.

I believe love is unconditional - we love humans, humans are flawed, so I don't stop loving just because they've hurt me badly in someway.

But I also believe that circumstances change and love can change and die or wither away. If they continue to hurt me, intentionally, with no remorse then it will likely wither away.

Plus I've loved e.g. bf in the past where we ended more or less fine. I now have a soft spot for them, am fond of the memories, and if they called needing something I'd put myself out in memory but I don't still love them.

I don't believe the two are incompatible.

"At some of the more difficult times in my life I think love was all around me but I couldn't feel it or experience it and part of my healing has been to be more open to it."

Thanks Anne - this is my problem - I've locked myself away so tightly that I don't see and feel the love around me. I'm trying though.

This is how I think also, love should't be a trap one has to stay in if it only hurts one or both parties. That is also love to be able to let go sometimes. Love for life and for oneself and for the future.

This is not a criticism of you, DP, but directed to elisewin. It takes guts to put your feelings out there. I do like the way you said what was true for you in a non-blaming or "calling out" way. Sometimes I feel that it's just important for me to say how something impacts me, without mining for an apology or any other response from the person. I do always hope that someone can understand and/or empathize with where I'm coming from, even if they disagree with what I say.

Love can be conditional in that it can come with boundaries and limitations. I have several friends who had to impose strict limitations and boundaries on their relationship with one of their children because that child (adult) was abusive to a sibling or even to them, stole from them, etc. They love them deeply and having to put the boundary limiting contact with them was incredibly painful, but love doesn't mean there are no conditions at all.

Of course there is conditions for many with love. Not denying it. I'm just saying I disagree with it, especially with family. No kid should have to grow up thinking they will only be loved under certain rules or conditions. It really messes with people. More than most think about.

Thank you. As usual, I really like your post.

I guess for me, love is relationship, and with relationship comes with a responsibility to honor, respect, support each other. In a healthy parenting relationship with a child, the child learns through modeling of those positive relationship behaviors, and there are logical consequences when one betrays another in a relationship (parent or child). That doesn't mean the love goes away -- not in a healthy relationship. It's a point of conversation, renegotiation, renewal, etc.

Some relationships are obviously not healthy at all, for a variety of reasons, and no one has to accept abusive behaviors from any other person. In extreme cases, I have seen family members have to put up very strong conditions in order to stop the abuse. My husband had to do so with his own family. The relationship was so entirely dysfunctional and abusive, that any interaction always ended up abusive in some way. He hasn't seen or interacted with any member of his family in a very, very long time. But you know what, he still loves them. He loves them deeply and the separation is painful. His love is conditional. His condition is his refusal to any longer be abused by any of them. His love is eternal though. Despite every horrible thing they've ever said or done to him, he still loves them. That has never changed.

Great post

I think you can love a person, but not be in love with them.

I love my therapist. I love him as a person. I love his wisdom, his sense of humour, his insight. I love spending time with him. I love our sessions. I love him.

But I'm not IN LOVE with him. I don't want to sleep with him. I don't want to marry him.

I want him to have an amazing life filled with happiness and fulfillment and good things. I want him to have everything he's hoped for. I want all his hopes and dreams to come true. Because I love him, and that's what I want for all people I love.

But I'm not in love with him.

There's a huge difference.

Of course love for dogs, children, students,,sports coaches friends, parents, places , avocations- all manner of loves that aren’t romantic but do resonate hugely through life.

I guess for me, romantic love has been a safe space and rewarding - more so than tough early childhood.

I easily relate the love in therapy to romantic love- not a platonic ideal or a troubadour , but I see it as benevolent . I love my dog infinitely , but not the way I love another human.

It is difficult for me to understand a feeling for an opposite sex T that is preoccupying and consuming in this way that is commensurate with love for a dog, but that may be a shortfall of my imagination.

I like the idea of un-enacted on underlying romantic love as part of therapy bc it seems safe and sweet, and part of what I understand, what feels familiar. I comprehend transference intellectually, but my T is my exact peer in age. I am comfortable with some romantic feelings in the air more so than in superimposing traumatic paternal feelings onto him etc.

My love for dogs, my dog, is timeless and pure- It just isn't like in texture, heft, complexity- like loving another human. That is just me, and you know you.

Only you know if the love you experience for your T is the same love you feel toward you dog. Only your T knows if he feels love for you, and if so what kind.

To the overall question though, human relationships get messy a percentage of the time. I doubt most therapists love most patients. Yet, in the galaxy of therapist- client relationships out there on the spinning globe, for sure there is love, and many kinds of it.

This is beautiful. It’s what I long for in a therapy relationship and it’s nice to hear that it can exist even though it’s still tough for me to allow myself to go there.

I agree. I said in a earlier post they are different. My post was just loving someone not being in love with them

I use "love" to talk about my forever relationships, like family and my partner and very close friends (pets, too). People who I will know until I die or they do. I don't think my relationship with my T is like that. So to me it seems like expressing "love" between a therapist and client would make it harder for the client to terminate later, because how do you quit seeing someone you love?

With my T, I think we care about each other and enjoy our time together, but I wouldn't call it love.