[justbreathe1994]

Yesterday I had a session with my new T and I felt very connected to her. This has been a breath of fresh air because I never felt that I could feel connected to anyone after losing ex T. While connection with ex T felt incredibly intense (like I’d get goosebumps during eye contact), I feel much more grounded with new T. I feel like I can let her in and then let her go, which has been such a relief.

At the same time, I can’t help but feel scared. I am frightened because I already feel close, and we’ve only been working together for like 3 months. She is already showing emotion in session, which I think has played a large role in me feeling more connected to her. I feel like I am broken because the last two long term therapists I’ve had, I’ve grown overly attached to / dependent on. Why should this therapist be any different? She is a DBT therapist and ex T recommended I see a DBT therapist because of my attachment issues. However, she does not seem to practice adherent DBT, rather, incorporates a lot of other modalities as well, like psychodynamic. At the same time, I have 24/7 access to her through call and text (like traditional DBT therapists offer). I have only used the phone support once, however. Even though I really struggle at times and she encourages me to call, I don’t because I’m afraid of growing attached to her. Do people have advice / tips on how to not grow too dependent / attached to their therapist? For those who have access to this level of support from their T, did that intensify your attachment? (For someone like me, I’m afraid it’s just going to be inevitable b/c this one seems really caring). Maybe I don’t let myself call her because I know I need that boundary for myself.

[feileacan]

But why don't you want to become dependent and attached to her? If you would try to forcefully keep yourself becoming attached and dependent then what's the point of going to see her in the first place?

To answer your question though, the way to not become dependent on T, or rather, how to become independent of T, is becoming independent/autonomous e.g. becoming dependent on yourself (and not in a dismissive and avoidant way). The only way to there for some people might be through dependence and attachment to their T.

[susannahsays]

Sorry, I don't have any advice. I have never heard of DBT for attachment issues. Do you think this therapist is experienced enough to help you? I feel like you mentioned that she hasn't been practicing that long, but maybe I'm wrong.

[justbreathe1994]

Originally Posted by susannahsays

Sorry, I don't have any advice. I have never heard of DBT for attachment issues. Do you think this therapist is experienced enough to help you? I feel like you mentioned that she hasn't been practicing that long, but maybe I'm wrong.

The reason my ex T recommended DBT is because I have some BPD traits (DBT is the recommended treatment for BPD)... I tend to idealize or totally disconnect in my relationships, so ex T seems to think a DBT therapist would help me with gaining interpersonal skills. Yes, you’re right - I did mention that. While this T hasn’t been practicing very long, she is heavily involved in research and in the sessions I’ve had with her thus far, she seems to really know her stuff, understands me and my struggles, is extremely non-judgemental (she knows what I did that led to ex T leaving), and is really able to challenge me. So yes, even tho she’s young and new, I think she’s good.

[justbreathe1994]

Originally Posted by feileacan

But why don't you want to become dependent and attached to her? If you would try to forcefully keep yourself becoming attached and dependent then what's the point of going to see her in the first place?

To answer your question though, the way to not become dependent on T, or rather, how to become independent of T, is becoming independent/autonomous e.g. becoming dependent on yourself (and not in a dismissive and avoidant way). The only way to there for some people might be through dependence and attachment to their T.

Thank you for asking. I guess I just don’t want to become overly-dependent. I have yet to figure out a balance between a little dependency and completely falling head over heals “attached”, if that makes sense...

[susannahsays]

I do think you're making sense. I don't see dependence on the therapist as a healthy thing, so it makes sense to me that you're concerned about it. I think dependence on a therapist may be much like dependence on a substance - very hard to extract yourself from and not worth what is gained. Have you talked to the therapist about this?

[ScarletPimpernel]

I don't have any advice to offer you, except to talk to your T about it. I can give you my experience...

I used to have mother-figures in my life (I guess you could call it positive maternal transference with some definite counter-transference). I found that the pattern was older women in a caring role (teacher, doctor, counselor, T, Pdocs). When I found ex-T I discovered that she was actually younger than me by a year. I thought I wouldn't attach to her, but I did. It wasn't transference. It was attachment. Then she abandoned me. I swore to myself that I would never attach to anyone again, especially a T. So I met current T one month later. We both agreed that we didn't want me to be overly attached. And problems in the beginning of our relationship helped with that. But as time went on, and our relationship developed, I developed a deep attachment for her. And now that she's going on a 6 months leave, she wants me to attach to someone else?!?! I, of course, don't want that. I don't even like how attached I am to T. But I guess I haven't learned enough about relationships yet, or how to care for myself. Or maybe that's just who I am? T says attachments are healthy and normal. It's the dependency is not normal. I guess that makes sense.

[feileacan]

Originally Posted by justbreathe1994

Thank you for asking. I guess I just don’t want to become overly-dependent. I have yet to figure out a balance between a little dependency and completely falling head over heals “attached”, if that makes sense...

Actually, it does not make sense to me. If you are not presenting yourself as you are (whether it is "overly-dependent" or something else) and it is one of the main patterns that occurs to you then you are just keeping relevant material out of therapy room. And how can you work on your problems in therapy if you keep significant parts of yourself out of it? Then you would come into these forums and talk about your overly dependent feelings (because if they have to come, you can't escape them anyway) but are unable to work with them therapeutically because you don't want to be "over-dependent" on your therapist. I just can't see the point of such fake therapy.

[Ididitmyway]

I wish I had the answer for you, but, unfortunately, I don't. That's one of the reasons I am no longer in therapy and not planning to go back at any time for the rest of my life.

Under the current model where "intimacy", "therapeutic relationship" and "working through" transference are considered to be organic and necessary elements of therapy, I don't think it's possible to avoid the dependency trap.

Of course, there are therapists who don't subscribe to the above notions, but, interestingly enough, in my experience, those who have a healthy professional attitude are, at the same time, are very ignorant. They believe that following the "manual" is all they need and don't have any useful insight to offer, so they never appealed to me.

Back to your question, I actually just thought of something. My husband managed to find a way not to become dependent on his therapist after he had seen how my dependency on my therapist had messed me up. He worked with a therapist for three years quite successfully without ever talking about their relationship. He told me later that he set his intention on keeping all conversations around his life only and never allowed her to push him into talking about their "relationship". He said that she made a few attempts to stir the conversation into that corner, but he dismissed it and continued with the topics he wanted to discuss. She was smart enough to take a hint and their work continued in the direction he wanted it to continue. Once, he realized that she came to her limitations. There was a session where she gave a response to one of the things he was discussing that was completely off. She just didn't "get it" and he felt intuitively that she was not in a place to get it. In other words, he realized that it was as good as it gets but what he got was no longer good enough. He made a clean break right away. He called her later to inform her that he was terminating therapy and thanked her for all her help. That was it. He said that he felt sad for one day, just one. The next day he was fine.

To me, his therapy was perfect. I wish I was able to manage my therapy the way he did. So, if anyone else can do that..I guess, that could be a way not to become dependent..but only if you can do that..

[Amyjay]

I don't know if you want suggestions or not, so feel free to disregard if you do. I would suggest this: Talk, talk, talk about it. Talk about your fears, talk about your feelings, talk about your goosebumps, talk about how you are afraid of being rejected, how you are afraid of becoming too dependent and too attached, talk about it all and talk about it now before it becomes as big and all-consuming as it has before. Talk about how you are terrified she will reject you if you tell her how attached you are/will become, talk about how you are terrified that you won't feel attached to her (because you are) and talk about how desperately you crave that deep love and connection. Talk about everything.

Why? Because this is both the source and the cure of your pain and the only way to the other side is through it. Not alongside. Not next to. Not despite or in spite of. But right there. That is your IT.

[justbreathe1994]

Originally Posted by Amyjay

I don't know if you want suggestions or not, so feel free to disregard if you do. I would suggest this: Talk, talk, talk about it. Talk about your fears, talk about your feelings, talk about your goosebumps, talk about how you are afraid of being rejected, how you are afraid of becoming too dependent and too attached, talk about it all and talk about it now before it becomes as big and all-consuming as it has before. Talk about how you are terrified she will reject you if you tell her how attached you are/will become, talk about how you are terrified that you won't feel attached to her (because you are) and talk about how desperately you crave that deep love and connection. Talk about everything.

Why? Because this is both the source and the cure of your pain and the only way to the other side is through it. Not alongside. Not next to. Not despite or in spite of. But right there. That is your IT.

I think you’re right. I think I do need to talk about it with her. I’m just afraid I will scare her away. Like I said, I think she’s good. But she’s also young.

Apart from not going.
But I'm guessing those feelings which are in you, would express themselves somewhere else in your life. Unless you lived a nomadic life.
Best to have them expressed with someone they can bring them to a conclusion rather than going round and round in circles.

[Lemoncake]

I have bpd and I used to get attached to everything and everyone and my feelings were incredibly strong and intense, bordering obsessive sometimes if i'm being 100% honest.

I can understand your fears, but I feel like where I am now after 2 years of therapy because I was so dependent on T- it allowed me to become more independent now.

[Amyjay]

Originally Posted by justbreathe1994

I think you’re right. I think I do need to talk about it with her. I’m just afraid I will scare her away. Like I said, I think she’s good. But she’s also young.

If you talk about this with her and it scares her away then that is a very, very good thing. If that happens it means she is not the one who will be able to help you with this, and you need a person to help you with this. If she isn't the one who is able to do that then she is no good to you at all, and the sooner you know if she is or isn't then the sooner you can get on with the business of healing you. It is so important to work with a person who can help, and not a person who can't.
It's just too important to mess around with. YOU are too important to waste your time with a person who isn't able to be the one who walks with you through this. Find out if she can be your person. If she can't, find the person who can.

[SalingerEsme]

I think it is okay to feel and talk about feelings as intensely as you want, but not to act out those feelings.

I am one who thinks your ex-T completely overreacted, but the lesson to extract is more about keeping the relationship within the limits of the frame the therapist outlines, and not violating boundaries.

I agree with Lemon that dependency on the therapist is an important phase, and the way out of that is through it. It is a good thing.

You just have to dig down deep and do whatever is needed observe the T's rules. My T is very strict, and I just rule out something like calling him on Christmas Day , and actually calling him ever at all from my list of possible behaviors bc he would feel intruded upon . It helps me to think about how stressed I would be if he called me while I was teaching or getting ready for bed- I would be jarred by that.

I am pretty dependent on therapy sessions and on my T as a witness and a catalyst for healing, but not as a person in my real life. I'm not always comfortable with how homesick I feel for him, and how much he matters to me, and my SO is bewildered and at times resentful of the T relationship. Many times I really suffer despair over therapy boundaries, like when the session is ended by my T and I am sent out in floods tears without time to find a peace stopping point.

In those moments there is a decision point- what to put first my frantic dysregulation or his rules and boundaries. I think that if I ever started prioritizing the need and fear I felt over his frame, he wouldn't want to work with me, and would say I needed a higher level of care. This keeps me figuring out how to deal with myself in any way except violating his space, and that line in turn prevents some kind of pathological dependency. I don't know if that makes sense.

[InkyBooky]

Originally Posted by Amyjay

I don't know if you want suggestions or not, so feel free to disregard if you do. I would suggest this: Talk, talk, talk about it. Talk about your fears, talk about your feelings, talk about your goosebumps, talk about how you are afraid of being rejected, how you are afraid of becoming too dependent and too attached, talk about it all and talk about it now before it becomes as big and all-consuming as it has before. Talk about how you are terrified she will reject you if you tell her how attached you are/will become, talk about how you are terrified that you won't feel attached to her (because you are) and talk about how desperately you crave that deep love and connection. Talk about everything.

Why? Because this is both the source and the cure of your pain and the only way to the other side is through it. Not alongside. Not next to. Not despite or in spite of. But right there. That is your IT.

Wonderful post. thank you

[stopdog]

Try yoga, tai chi, qi gong, volunteering, white water rafting or any number of things. Those sorts of things can give one a sense of self and autonomy.

[coolibrarian]

Originally Posted by justbreathe1994

I think you’re right. I think I do need to talk about it with her.

I need to talk about it to my T, as well. Trouble is, she is still on medical leave and is not expected to be back in the office until mid-January.

[mcl6136]

Originally Posted by Ididitmyway

I wish I had the answer for you, but, unfortunately, I don't. That's one of the reasons I am no longer in therapy and not planning to go back at any time for the rest of my life.

Under the current model where "intimacy", "therapeutic relationship" and "working through" transference are considered to be organic and necessary elements of therapy, I don't think it's possible to avoid the dependency trap.

Of course, there are therapists who don't subscribe to the above notions, but, interestingly enough, in my experience, those who have a healthy professional attitude are, at the same time, are very ignorant. They believe that following the "manual" is all they need and don't have any useful insight to offer, so they never appealed to me.

Back to your question, I actually just thought of something. My husband managed to find a way not to become dependent on his therapist after he had seen how my dependency on my therapist had messed me up. He worked with a therapist for three years quite successfully without ever talking about their relationship. He told me later that he set his intention on keeping all conversations around his life only and never allowed her to push him into talking about their "relationship". He said that she made a few attempts to stir the conversation into that corner, but he dismissed it and continued with the topics he wanted to discuss. She was smart enough to take a hint and their work continued in the direction he wanted it to continue. Once, he realized that she came to her limitations. There was a session where she gave a response to one of the things he was discussing that was completely off. She just didn't "get it" and he felt intuitively that she was not in a place to get it. In other words, he realized that it was as good as it gets but what he got was no longer good enough. He made a clean break right away. He called her later to inform her that he was terminating therapy and thanked her for all her help. That was it. He said that he felt sad for one day, just one. The next day he was fine.

To me, his therapy was perfect. I wish I was able to manage my therapy the way he did. So, if anyone else can do that..I guess, that could be a way not to become dependent..but only if you can do that..

Your husband's method sounds like a dream come true. I feel that I came close to this kind of therapeutic relationship with an old T that I had when I lived in another city -- he was kind of a father figure in a way, but he handled The Relationship in such a professional, smart, wise way that I was able to connect and dis-connect with him when the time came for me to move. He was kind of Old School and had very firm boundaries (which I didn't even know about at the time) and he never allowed a sense of dependency to develop. Looking back on it, I realize that he never represented himself as having the answers for me, never let me off the hook, never allowed me to enact weird dramas. I'm probably idealizing this guy at the present moment, but I think an artful T can create a sense of "working together" rather than being a source of succor or engaging in the kinds of tug-o-wars that I'm prone to. Sigh.....

[Ididitmyway]

Originally Posted by mcl6136

Your husband's method sounds like a dream come true. I feel that I came close to this kind of therapeutic relationship with an old T that I had when I lived in another city -- he was kind of a father figure in a way, but he handled The Relationship in such a professional, smart, wise way that I was able to connect and dis-connect with him when the time came for me to move. He was kind of Old School and had very firm boundaries (which I didn't even know about at the time) and he never allowed a sense of dependency to develop. Looking back on it, I realize that he never represented himself as having the answers for me, never let me off the hook, never allowed me to enact weird dramas. I'm probably idealizing this guy at the present moment, but I think an artful T can create a sense of "working together" rather than being a source of succor or engaging in the kinds of tug-o-wars that I'm prone to. Sigh.....

My husband just was horrified to see what became of me as a result of therapy where the "relationship" with the therapist became the centerpiece. He didn't want that to happen to him. He couldn't afford to fall apart since he was a primary provider in our family and, even if he could, he wouldn't allow it because he just found the whole idea of the "relationship" with the therapist nonsensical and harmful, which he was seeing the evidence of when he saw what it did to me.

But I've seen the type of therapist you are describing: the Old School-I-am-not-here-to-support-and-comfort-you-but-I-am-also-not-here-to-judge-you type of therapist. I've met this type of guy once and he was WONDERFUL.

Unfortunately, I only had one meeting with him because it happened at the time I was seeing my last ex-T socially and was trying to resolve this situation (this is why I sought his help). At the time, I already decided that I was done with therapy but I needed a brief counsel from someone to figure out how to get out of the trap I was in. I knew this guy from my training place. He was one of our instructors at the practicum class where we discussed our cases. He was 96 at that time ( I am sure he is no longer alive). He was absolutely brilliant. I hadn't seen anyone with such a clear mind. He had a no nonsense approach to therapy based on honesty, transparency, objectivity and neutrality. At the same time he displayed much more of real humanity towards clients than anyone who subscribed to the idea of "intimacy" in therapy and liked to center therapy around the "therapeutic relationship". "Therapeutic relationship" was not even a part of his lexicon, and yet he was the one who had no problem visiting a sick client in a hospital and suggesting his students to do the same. For him, creating "intimacy" in the therapy room was totally inappropriate, but helping an old client to get in or out of the car, for example or visiting them in the hospital was just common sense and a normal expression of humanity, which you can't separate from your work. He began his career in 1947, in the "old world" where normal expressions of humanity were not pathologized, suppressed and demonized.

Long story short, I had one meeting with him regarding my relationship with my last ex-T and his response was as brilliant as everything he said when he was my teacher. He didn't get emotionally involved in that situation even one bit. He didn't take sides. He didn't emphasize the wrongness of my therapist's behavior while he made it very clear that he acted unprofessionally and inappropriately. He was not interested in either supporting me or defending my therapist like some others did. He simply asked me what I wanted in that situation. This simple question empowered me more than all the support and validation I have ever received from others. It put the power right back into my own hands. It opened my eyes to the reality that no matter what anyone does or has done to me, I have the power to make a choice of what to do about it, I am the one who calls the shots.

This sounds like a tribute to the guy and may be it is because he deserves it. Just like you, I am, probably, idealizing him now, but I don't care. He had the type of integrity that I don't see in people these days, the one that allowed him to be 100% humane while staying 100% professional. To me he represents what a professional is supposed to be like..The memories of him give me a sense and a hope that it is possible to make the profession represent what to me it should represent - an integration of humanity, neutrality, objectivity, honesty and transparency.

[mcl6136]

Originally Posted by Ididitmyway

My husband just was horrified to see what became of me as a result of therapy where the "relationship" with the therapist became the centerpiece. He didn't want that to happen to him. He couldn't afford to fall apart since he was a primary provider in our family and, even if he could, he wouldn't allow it because he just found the whole idea of the "relationship" with the therapist nonsensical and harmful, which he was seeing the evidence of when he saw what it did to me.

But I've seen the type of therapist you are describing: the Old School-I-am-not-here-to-support-and-comfort-you-but-I-am-also-not-here-to-judge-you type of therapist. I've met this type of guy once and he was WONDERFUL.

Unfortunately, I only had one meeting with him because it happened at the time I was seeing my last ex-T socially and was trying to resolve this situation (this is why I sought his help). At the time, I already decided that I was done with therapy but I needed a brief counsel from someone to figure out how to get out of the trap I was in. I knew this guy from my training place. He was one of our instructors at the practicum class where we discussed our cases. He was 96 at that time ( I am sure he is no longer alive). He was absolutely brilliant. I hadn't seen anyone with such a clear mind. He had a no nonsense approach to therapy based on honesty, transparency, objectivity and neutrality. At the same time he displayed much more of real humanity towards clients than anyone who subscribed to the idea of "intimacy" in therapy and liked to center therapy around the "therapeutic relationship". "Therapeutic relationship" was not even a part of his lexicon, and yet he was the one who had no problem visiting a sick client in a hospital and suggesting his students to do the same. For him, creating "intimacy" in the therapy room was totally inappropriate, but helping an old client to get in or out of the car, for example or visiting them in the hospital was just common sense and a normal expression of humanity, which you can't separate from your work. He began his career in 1947, in the "old world" where normal expressions of humanity were not pathologized, suppressed and demonized.

Long story short, I had one meeting with him regarding my relationship with my last ex-T and his response was as brilliant as everything he said when he was my teacher. He didn't get emotionally involved in that situation even one bit. He didn't take sides. He didn't emphasize the wrongness of my therapist's behavior while he made it very clear that he acted unprofessionally and inappropriately. He was not interested in either supporting me or defending my therapist like some others did. He simply asked me what I wanted in that situation. This simple question empowered me more than all the support and validation I have ever received from others. It put the power right back into my own hands. It opened my eyes to the reality that no matter what anyone does or has done to me, I have the power to make a choice of what to do about it, I am the one who calls the shots.

This sounds like a tribute to the guy and may be it is because he deserves it. Just like you, I am, probably, idealizing him now, but I don't care. He had the type of integrity that I don't see in people these days, the one that allowed him to be 100% humane while staying 100% professional. To me he represents what a professional is supposed to be like..The memories of him give me a sense and a hope that it is possible to make the profession represent what to me it should represent - an integration of humanity, neutrality, objectivity, honesty and transparency.

I feel the exact same way!

24/7 access seems very unrealistic and quite unsettling. It's surely not healthy for her or for you. Adults do not need that level of access to any single person, no matter what your trauma history or diagnosis. You might be troubled, but you do not have the same needs as an infant.

[justbreathe1994]

Originally Posted by SorryOozit

24/7 access seems very unrealistic and quite unsettling. It's surely not healthy for her or for you. Adults do not need that level of access to any single person, no matter what your trauma history or diagnosis. You might be troubled, but you do not have the same needs as an infant.

I get what you are saying but this is pretty common with DBT therapists. The idea is that you call when you are in the heat of the emotion and struggling with unhealthy behaviors. When you call, they give you “phone coaching” to help you practice skills. There are lots of guidelines for the calls, like what you can/can’t talk about, how long the calls last, when a call is warranted, etc. Some Ts are of course more lenient and flexible when it comes to these guidelines than others.

[nottrustin]

Oh this is the story of my life right now. I am trying to figure it out. I had major attachment with T. EMDR T and I briefly discussed it; she said T had to build some attachment in order for me trust her plus we worked together for 10 years.

For a long time T was a major safety net. I have others in my life who are willing to help but just dont get much of it. T understood me and we discussed almost everything. For the last few years I worried T would retire and be out of of my life. It was hard. Then she passed away and all my fears came true. It has been painful like nothing else I have experienced.

Now I have Emdr T who I have been working with for a year and a half. When we started working together I still had T so attachment wasnt neceasary. I just needed to be able trust her enough to do Emdr. I knew I could teach out of need be but only needed to once.

Since Ts death it has all changed and I am trying to figure out how to make this work. She has been a HUGE help especially when pdoc went out on medical leave for what I was told was for brain cancer. I have been a mess with trust issues, fear of abandonment and fear of getting to close and getting hurt. It is hard not getting attached. I am trying to just think about her when in therapy...yeah right. We have discussed much of of my fears.