Couch 188: Who needs those people, anyway?

How do you define "truly [caring] about former client[s] beyond occasional thoughts?" What is "truly caring" to you?

And no, (since you used the word "every") I doubt anyone cares about "every" former client in any profession. That's an absolute and unreasonable.

I have three former therapists who I am very certain truly care about me. Do they think about me more than just occasionally? I have no idea nor does that really matter to me; I don't think about them more than occasionally either. But 10, 20, and over 30 years later, they remember me. They remember me in detail. They are genuinely pleased when we make contact. They ask me about my husband and my kids . . . my parents even. That's three out of three in my case. I consider that genuine caring. I'm just not sure what you consider truly caring.

That sounds like just being thoughtful to me, which is also nice

Care is wanting the best for them, doing things for them because you want to, feeling true compassion for them if they are struggling or happy in life....

Ya care is very different to everyone for sure, we can all agree therapists, as well as any human, think of people form their past from time to time... no argument there.... I just don't see that as care, it's normal for people. Care is beyond normal. it's what makes one person different for you than others.

If a person can just casually walk away from someone they "cared about", then it's hard to say they still care.....

Last time we went to Seattle, I dragged my kids into a spice shop. We all spent a good amount of time looking at all of the spices and spice blends.

Did you bring home anything new or interesting?

My former therapists DO do all of those things.

Why do you assume your former therapist (by contrast to your definition) wants less than the best for you, would not at some point be of help to you (after his boundary time), and feels anything less than compassion for you (you are not in his head or his heart -- you are doing a great deal of mind-reading, I think perhaps, because it somehow makes it easier of you to think the worst).

Maybe what you need to do is just allow yourself to legitimately grieve over the ending of this therapy relationship. That's okay to do, you know. It's okay to feel loss. That's completely normal. Grief takes time. This insistence on either knocking him down as a louse and a fake, or knocking yourself down as unworthy of any caring, just seems like a way for you to justify your emotions because you seem to think your emotions are wrong. But if the justification is faulty, if your reasoning is just kind of lying to yourself, that just makes the grief and pain last longer. You've gotten yourself stuck in this loop of magical and distorted thinking.

It's okay to miss him. It's okay to feel sadness and pain at loss. And it's okay for those emotions to last a pretty darn long time, or for those emotions to come and go at unexpected times. That is completely normal for grief.

You just seem hell bent on making it stop by justifying your pain by making either him or you a bad person.

How about . . . you were both good people, the therapy was a special relationship, it ended too soon, and you are rightfully hurting and will allow yourself the natural time to regain your footing? You just seem to beating yourself about the head and shoulders with the same stick. Perhaps you need to try something different: honor the positive influence he and your therapy had for you, honor your grief over the loss of that relationship, allow yourself time because grief isn't a fast process, expect the pain and sadness will come and go for a while, and when it does, forgive yourself for grieving. It's normal.

I know grief takes time, I still feel it with my dog. It's been 15 months. I still can't stop for toys in a pet store. The difference is... with my dog, he's gone forever... and it sucks but he didn't CHOOSE to leave me... hell, he would have stayed forever with me if he could. I was everything to him as he was to me

With T, he CHOSE to leave me.... he is potentially gone forever, I've no idea. That's a risk, and nothing I can do anything about for at least two years, two years of hell of not knowing... he also wouldn't stay forever. He even said that. I didn't mean that much to him. I thought I did but I didn't. He's no doubt happy now, with OTHER people in his life... happy WITHOUT me....

He knew full well that I was struggling with losing my dog still and the holidays were the worst but he didn't care, he kicked me in the face and left two weeks before Christmas anyway. Yet, I still love him and I'm angry about that. I don't want to feel anything like that for him anymore. he doesn't deserve it.

Clearly I need to stay in colder climes. Alligator didn't even occur to me.

he didn't choose to leave you DP, he chose to leave the field altogether, which unfortunately included you. i know no one will change your mind, i just hope you can get through this safely.

He did choose it though. He knows full well that here there is no law or rule about friendship or contact after therapy, yet he chose to go with a 2 yr thing anyway. He showed me how unimportant I actually was.

Meanwhile, a guy he openly said was "mean to him" is high on his list of co workers to remain friends with... alongside a 20 something year old married woman. he chose them, they are better then me, they matter.

It's one of those things when you really learn how someone feels about you. Just like that I became crap to him. I bet in 2 yrs if I reach out, I'll be ignored, just another reminder from him, that I no longer matter... and maybe I never did

Info just called you guys my “online group.”

She really can’t grasp the concept of a forum.

aww that's almost cute.

i doubt my T who is only in her early 40s would get what a forum really was.

Well we are a group and we are online, so she's not completely wrong

My T keeps referring to it as a "list-serv." He seems pretty technologically savvy, too (and is in his late 40s).

Isn’t that very 90s?

good lord.

Yes, that's what amuses me about it! I mean, I was in some list-servs back then, but have updated my terminology.... And he's only in his late 40s...

She also suggested I put on some music and dance with the cat.

Cats love dancing.

Info is truly clueless about cats. There are not enough bandaids in the house for me to attempt to dance with one of my cats.

To be fair, my dogs would not be too keen on dancing with me either.
They just wouldn't shred me like the cats would.

omg. she is so so strange.

one great thing about depression, is eating loads of chocolate... although i may regret it later lol

Thats very collegial

Hey couchies. My son and his gf came over for a short visit this evening, he got some mail here in the interim since he changed his address with the post office. I guess it takes a little time for that to go through or something. Anyway it was nice to sit and chat with them for a bit! I've gotten used to him not being here, to not seeing him every day.


Hugs and headnods all around as appropriate.

Interesting. Does this tell you anything about the kinds of relationships you want in general?

"Perhaps you need to try something different: honor the positive influence he and your therapy had for you, honor your grief over the loss of that relationship, allow yourself time because grief isn't a fast process, expect the pain and sadness will come and go for a while, and when it does, forgive yourself for grieving. It's normal."

This is great advice and I'm trying it wholeheartedly.

But, if I may draw similarities between my self and DP, what you advise is a 'normal' reaction. It's like Freud's normal human unhappiness. And by that I don't mean to downplay the intensity of grief.

But what I'm struggling with, and I suspect DP is, is CPTSD, so the emotions (where relevant to this) are not in response to this event but reflective of past trauma. The brains wiring and physiological state has gone awry due to past trauma. I am reliving past trauma through this current "abandonment" so advice direct at this "abandonment" sometimes misses the point as it's 'just' a reenaction. Although very and extremely real in the present. I too tried to end my life over it.

It would be extremely difficult to get out of this emotional flashback without trauma therapy, or other trauma work ( I accept therapy is not the only or sometimes the best treatment).

I guess just a plea for understanding as I see myself in her and some responses (and I accept I am veryyyyyyy sensitive at the moment and one symptom of CPTSD is hypervigilantly seeing the worst where it's not there) I perceive as exasperated or why can't you just do this already and get better. Almost as blaming her.

Anyway fellow couchies I really appreciate the support and empathy and advice. Hugs.

I know for sure my past ****ed me up.... but I also know for sure I've 0 interest in long term therapy to work through it. I like to stay present as much as I can. I just need to learn to live with things now and get a better future. There's also no point in dealing with my trauma, due to my job situation, I still see my lifelong abusers on a nearly daily basis. Until I'm able to find a new FT job and move far away, it's just something I've gotta deal with.

My T basically told me all those same things about honoring them etc over my dog and it helped. I've been trying to hard to do the things he told me for that with him but I just get into this mindset and get drained and sucked in again. For some reason, this isn't working so well this time.

Even if its 1% chance of ever talking to him again, I don't want him to see me as the same person, who is still a ****ed up loser. I want to be better, I want him to say "Wow, you've grown" so I got to work through this and not get trapped in it.

It is hell for sure... I wouldnt wish this on my worst enemy. If I had a chance to redo it all over, I'd chose to never meet him. Feel free to message anytime you need to vent or whatever