New therapist today - "hidden" kleenex behind curtain!

I have the impression you think she hid the tissue on purpose. This is a stretch of the imagination. I think it far more likely the box was placed there simply because it was an accessible ledge. I am apt to do things like that. In fact my own window sills are full of objects.

Question: Who was the box closer to? Because it sounds to me as though it was within your reach and not hers. This would more than be reason enough for her to tell you where it was located. If it was close by you it only makes sense she informed you of it's location instead of standing up and fetching it herself. There is nothing remotely wrong or sly about this.

Perhaps a better consideration would be that of evaluating your thoughts, opinions, and feelings you had in anticipation of the session before it even started. I have the impression you were apprehensive to begin with. Could it be then then you were looking for a justification of negative feelings you went into the meeting with. Could it have been then that you needed such a thing to support your advanced conclusion it wasn't going to go well?

I am really sorry the session did not go well, but it seems this is what you expected and walked into it already convinced it wouldn't. Perhaps next time you see a therapist you might think about what could go well as opposed to what will not. I would avoid the whole research thing too. Reviews are in no way an indication of the truth.

Why defend the therapist over the client's experience? Some do (and openly admit) they do things like hide tissue. Reviews do hold some truth.
Clients are not always wrong.

Maybe. I know I have been naive and gullible to certain situations in the past. It's actually a trait that's part of a character type involving a certain constellation of patterns (just talking about me here, no one else). I have been both overtrusting and nontrusting in an extreme sort of way rather than balanced.

I totally agree with the notion of some subjectivity involved in conclusions, and I definitely identify with "creepy" regarding the above!

There has been a pattern of people getting obsessed with me repeatedly which coincides with certain behaviors, and one time I was stalked and a severe trauma occurred. Therapists have patterns like everyone, so I do remain vigilant of others' patterns of behavior, such as a need to control others, need to please others, etc. Just like clients, therapists actions and words-in a cumulative sense-outline who they are.

It's also perfectly reasonable to ask a therapist-I noticed you place the tissue box behind the curtain-any reason why you put it there? or Wouldn't it be more convenient if the tissue box was on the table near the chair? It's all grist for the mill imo.

The great Kleenex debate continues . . . LOL. Methinks it is quite possible to overthink Kleenex.

Personal opinion: Be proactive. Take your own. Or, find it when you walk in and move it near you if it isn't already in reach. Problem solved. It's just kleenex.

And if you bring your own - they analyze that:
“I see you have brought your own tissues,” she smiles.

“Um, yes,” I say.

“I’m wondering if this is your attempt to take some control over your own grief?” she ponders.

This is barmy. I tell her it is nothing to do with trying to control my own grief, just that her tissues are thin and scratchy and exfoliate my nose, whereas mine are mansized with a hint of comforting balm.

Doktor R appears not to agree with my simple, practical explanation."
The Tissue Issue - Counselling Part Two | PLANET GRIEF

Thanks. This is an interesting perspective, that having kleenex visible could also cause different reactions or thoughts in clients. Some might feel some kind of pressure to cry or show emotions if tissues are very visible, like put in front of you on a table.

I though think about what´s standard, at least here in Sweden and within our health care service,and that tissues are generally put visible on a table or similar and within reach for the client.

Thanks. Yes, I think she might have a purpose in "hiding" the tissues behind a curtain where there was a totally empty table where she could have put them.


I though not think in terms of testing me specifically but more of something she does towards all clients.

It was closer to me than to her and within my reach when I got to know where the tissues actually were put.

This about the kleenex was just one thing that made me feel ill at ease together with her. If the kleenex issue had been the only thing I hadn´t brought it up or thought about it that much.


But now, combined with her hardly saying hello at the beginning, not welcoming me, then ending at the exact minute the session was to end, all those things added up to my impression of her as cold and non-welcoming.

I didn´t do any specific research about her but she called me about scheduling and some information about the facility and I briefly looked at her therapist profile page. There were no reviews or similar, just a short text about her therapeutic orientation.

Thanks. Yes, as you say I also do believe that some therapists do all kinds of things as "part of their therapeutic technique" and they believe they will accomplish something by doing that. In Sweden there are almost no reviews, very few therapists get reviewed. But in other countries I believe that a therapist who continuously get negative reviews actually aren´t that good.

Thanks. Yes, my solution to the kleenex issue will be as you suggest; to bring my own tissues and putting them on the table in front of me. I will for sure not look for tissues behind a curtain like that was a practical place to put them!

Thanks. Yes, I´ve thought about what you illustrate here, like problematizing why the client brought his/her own kleenex. Then this issue grows more and more bizarre, I mean if a therapist will go on analyzing why the client wanted tissues in front of him/her on a table.

But for sure, that could happen.

I personally much preferred the above in a T, it tends to give me the impression that they are professional and have good time management habits, while the ones that routinely go over as sloppy somehow. Another subjective thing

Haha, I agree. Not kleenex, but my first T was very old-fashioned and unwilling to email simple invoices like everyone else does these days. I had to email or print out the insurance claim form, email or take it to session for him to fill out his part and sign by hand, then pick up next session. He did not even seem to think that I would scan and submit it online and talked about snail mailing it. So first time he handed the completed form to me folded, in an envelope. I found that useless as I always carry a folder in my bag with my laptop and place for documents and it is easier to scan or take a photo of a paper that was never folded. I told him exactly this but took it, and next time he did not fold it but attached a blank envelope. I thanked it and gave the envelope back saying I did not need it.

About two weeks later, when we had a completely unrelated argument, he brought up that I had issues not wanting help such as not accepting the envelope from him. WTF?! I do have problems sometimes asking for help but that was a wrong example/projection.

Thanks. Yes, I personally feel rejected if a therapist needs me to leave on the exact minute and I´ve never met with that before I now saw this new therapist.

I´ve found that most are flexible and let the client stay like five minutes past to sum things up. I see that as part of relationship building, as well as putting kleenex visible for the client to see and reach.

I would say go with your instincts, whatever triggers them. It is you who will see them and talk with them about personal things and I think it is important that her style is compatible with your expectations and preferences. They may use techniques and interpretations that are sort of gambling but I doubt many chooses to practice behaviors that are totally alien for them. It is possible that their intentions and completely different from your interpretation but it'll be you sitting there dealing with the acts and paying for it, hoping it'll be helpful and not yet another frustration and source of doubt.

Ugh, I think that would be awful. I don't tend to analyze the setup of things, but putting the tissues by the therapist instead of the client is so odd that I think even I would notice. I might wonder if they had been crying or something at first, then I would eventually become angry once I realized that would always be their position. Gatekeeping of tissues is ridiculous.

I seem to recall that you struggled all the more with your last therapist when she terminated due to her poor boundaries. By poor boundaries, I am specifically referring to her allowing the situation to get beyond her control regarding your sessions. She kept working with you knowing that she wasn't supposed to since you had exceeded the session limit, and it ended up hurting you due to the abrupt termination. I would remember that when you are wishing this therapist would go beyond the bounds of your session time. Spending more time is not evidence that somebody will be there for you when you need them to be, or that they care "enough" to make sure you don't get hurt. I understand needing to wrap up, but that can also be done within the allotted time.

My T tends to be this way, especially with new clients, because it signals that it's not a social relationship and also doesn't waste time on small talk. People can spend a lot of time talking about random things especially if they're nervous, so it's better to get to the point. It was kind of off-putting for me at first but he's a good T once I got used to it.

I can't see what's wrong with ending on time--I think Ts should keep to their schedule.

Meh . . . I take my own kleenex everywhere (seriously). Allergies. Always prepared. End of discussion.

Thanks. Yes, I still suffer from that termination and I agree that therapist didn´t kept boundaries as she should have.

But all the time up until the termination I really liked her and that she didn´t keep too strict boundaries. Besides giving me more sessions than allowed she didn´t cross any boundaries even if the extention of the number of sessions per se of course ended badly.

I don´t see being flexible about the session time, keeping it between say 45-50 minutes as crossing boundaries. I don´t mean this current therapist should give me many more minutes every session but going the other way and "watching the clock" is not productive either.

Sometimes a session can end within 45 minutes, sometimes you´re in the middle of something and then adding some more minutes is just to show some caring.


It also reflects the therapist´s view upon therapy and I´ve never wanted a psychoanalytical therapist but it seems the one I now see does therapy within that orientation.

Thanks. I agree a session shouldn´t be small talk like half of the time but exchanging something briefly about the weather or similar just adds to a solid therapeutic relationship as I see it.

I don´t look upon therapy as a setting which necessarily needs to be so very different from meeting with other people. Asking something simple like "how was the trip here today" or "how hot it is outside today" can very well be part of a beginning to a session without going on talking about the trip or the weather of course.

Keeping a schedule is important but ending every session on the exact minute no matter what is way too rigid for me. In such a case, which it seems to be with this new T, it loses it´s meaning and instead becomes something that might eliminate a therapeutic relationship to grow stronger.

Me personally just feel rejected by such strict time boundaries and it gives me the feeling that the rules are more important than me.

So, shoe on the other foot. If the therapist started late because they were "flexible" about the time boundary, would you then be critical that they didn't care about you because they gave extra time to another client and didn't respect you appointment enough to start on time?

I'd think it would be good to enforce time exactly because those extra minutes tend to have meaning. Like she's rewarding you if she gives you extra time or rejecting you if she finishes a minute or two early or just doesn't give you extra time. It's important for a T to be consistent and predictable, it can cause anxiety if they're not.

In any case, it seems like it might be good for you to try going with this T's approach. You seem pretty entrenched in your views on how she should act etc. and I think that's bound to lead to some disappointment with anyone. Maybe you have trouble being open-minded?

Thanks. Yes, it truly is. Yes, but I don´t mean giving me nor another client so much more time at the end that it affects another client. I wouldn´t feel comfortable if I knew another client sat waiting for us to end.

But it might. You don't know whether it will or won't. You don't know if your therapist needs to return another client's call before the next session begins. Your therapist needs a bit of downtime/transition time between clients. There is a reason therapists try to stick to a schedule; when they don't clients are not happy because it affects them.

It seems like you have made many posts about how therapists start and end sessions; it's almost like that is a bit of a fixation for you.

What happened DURING the session is where the real meat is. If that isn't satisfactory, that would be the larger concern it would seem.

Thanks. I agree consistency is important but it´s difficult when it comes to time as being consistent and exact means the T needs to carefully watch the time at the end of every session and then make the client leave immediately.

Also, I have never experienced this "time watching" before. All counselors and therapists I´ve met with always were a bit flexible and if they sometimes had no client after me we kept talking for some minutes after the scheduled 45 minutes. I now mean if we were in the middle of something, I´ve never stayed in the therapist's office to small talk after the session ended.

In a way I can see it´s good to try some new approaches, like I did with my former T who introduced looking at pictures of me as a small child as part of "inner child work". But when a therapist´s orientation affects how and if I feel I can trust her and feel safe with her, then new approaches just lead to me not wanting to see her.

I already feel like I´ll hang in there for the four evaluation sessions that she has already scheduled for us and then it´ll just end, either by her telling me she feels I don´t like her or me telling I don´t like how she meets with me.

But it´s very difficult as I´m not allowed to switch therapists, according to this T no patient is as they have so many patients waiting in line. So I´ll then just end up without therapy and like "all problems still there".

Thanks. Yes, the start- and endtime is important to me but when writing about this the session time has never been the only thing that I was hesitant about. It often goes hand in hand with other things the therapist does and how I feel about her.

For example, my former T said to me several times that she found it very important not to be late for sessions. She always met with me in the waiting area like a minute or so before we started. Then, at the end, she often extended the session some minutes. She could perhaps schedule more freely than a therapist within public health care and that makes a difference but acting like the most important thing is for the client to leave on time, to me that isn´t considerate.

QUOTE=ArtleyWilkins;6522683]But it might. You don't know whether it will or won't. You don't know if your therapist needs to return another client's call before the next session begins. Your therapist needs a bit of downtime/transition time between clients. There is a reason therapists try to stick to a schedule; when they don't clients are not happy because it affects them.

It seems like you have made many posts about how therapists start and end sessions; it's almost like that is a bit of a fixation for you.

What happened DURING the session is where the real meat is. If that isn't satisfactory, that would be the larger concern it would seem.[/QUOTE]