[SarahSweden]

Last time I saw my counselor, she's not a therapist, I noticed she answered to everything I tell her in general terms. As an example I told her I feel it's not that easy to share things and she just answers "no, it's not easy". She never asked me something in relations to what I told her but either she just shortly confirmed what I said or mostly she kept talking about counselling in general.

She didn't listen to me properly but just rambled about and started new subjects to talk about. I told her about suicide thoughts and that I had had several very difficult nights when I felt anxious. She didn't follow up on that.

How is it possible to be so nonchalant and non-caring? I'm going to tell her next time that I didn't feel any empathy from her but my gut feeling tells me she won't take into account what I tell her.

(This isn't about switching therapists as I have no other options but to see her or quit altogether)

[Fuzzybear]

I would tell her that you didn't feel any empathy from her. Maybe she will listen, maybe not. I wish you luck. I hope she is responsive, and either way, hoping things improve for you soon. This does not sound to me like a helpful or particularly understanding counsellor.

[nottrustin]

when you say she isnt a therapist but is a counselor, what type of a counselor? What type of degree does she have?

[Mindtraveller]

It sounds like she's playing safe by sticking with generic and vague comments. By talking about counselling in general, it also makes me think she is sticking to what she knows (i.e. her training).

Maybe she is waiting to get to know you better? I don't know. But I definitely think it's a good idea to bring it up with your therapist/counsellor.

[Taylor27]

Maybe she is being more careful not to give you feedback til she gets to know you better. My therapist took her time to listen to me and still is, she is asking more questions and comments a bit more then she used to. With her not being a therapist she may feel uncomfortable doing that too.

[SarahSweden]

Thanks. Yes, I would like to and perhaps I´ll try to tell her but not so directly. I´m thinking of asking her if she thinks she can work on those issues I told her about. I think the risk though is that she simply isn´t qualified enough to be empathic or supportive.

Originally Posted by Fuzzybear

I would tell her that you didn't feel any empathy from her. Maybe she will listen, maybe not. I wish you luck. I hope she is responsive, and either way, hoping things improve for you soon. This does not sound to me like a helpful or particularly understanding counsellor.

[SarahSweden]

Thanks. She´s a counselor with a basic education in psychodynamic therapy, like six months or so. But what I know she has never had clients as in therapy clients but has worked within psychiatry and other places where she addresses more of practical issues. Like helping a patient getting in contact with a doctor and similar.

She of course talks with her patients but not in a emotionally supportive way, at least I haven´t seen that skill in her.

Originally Posted by nottrustin

when you say she isnt a therapist but is a counselor, what type of a counselor? What type of degree does she have?

[SarahSweden]

Thanks. Yes, I agree to that, realising that made me at least a little less angry and disappointed in her.


As she works within psychiatry she attends a lot of conferences and meetings and by that she superficially learns about for example new forms of therapy and treatment. But as she never trained as a therapist herself I´m afraid she don´t know how to address more of emotional issues, sadness, sorrow and so on.

Yes, as we just recently met for our first session after deciding we would meet to discuss my issues perhaps she waits a bit to see where it all lands. But I´m afraid she won´t be able to meet me in my feelings but just end up generalising.


Even if she isn´t a therapist I´m a bit surprised about her answering in such general terms to what I tell her as she has worked within health care and with patients for like 30+ years.

Originally Posted by Mindtraveller

It sounds like she's playing safe by sticking with generic and vague comments. By talking about counselling in general, it also makes me think she is sticking to what she knows (i.e. her training).

Maybe she is waiting to get to know you better? I don't know. But I definitely think it's a good idea to bring it up with your therapist/counsellor.

[SarahSweden]

Thanks. Yes, it could be that way, that she waits a bit before she enters too much into questions about what I tell her.


My counselor doesn´t even listen though, as you say your therapist did in the beginning. She hears what I say of course but she keeps bringing the subject of me as a person. She always enters into some general statement about it being hard to share things or whatever I tried to tell her.

As you say perhaps she just doesn´t know how to be empathic or to engage on a more personal level as she isn´t a therapist. But if I imagine myself sitting with a patient and being told sad or difficult things I would really try to follow up with adequate questions.


Even if it´s sometimes suitable to put things into perspective, counselling isn´t about a debate or discussion about "everybody else". I´m very disappointed in how she handles what I tell her.

Originally Posted by Cheryl27

Maybe she is being more careful not to give you feedback til she gets to know you better. My therapist took her time to listen to me and still is, she is asking more questions and comments a bit more then she used to. With her not being a therapist she may feel uncomfortable doing that too.

[Mindtraveller]

Maybe you need to have a conversation with her about your expectations of therapy with her vs what she can provide and agree a way forward from there???

[SarahSweden]

Thanks. Yes, I´ll try to initiate such a conversation but as I´ve had so many disappointments and only gotten worse from having contact with psychiatry it´s not easy. Also, responding to what I tell her by actually focus on what I said and not talk about "someone else" or "society" shouldn´t be something I need to ask her to do.

Originally Posted by Mindtraveller

Maybe you need to have a conversation with her about your expectations of therapy with her vs what she can provide and agree a way forward from there???

[divine1966]

Is that the same person you were meeting in absence of a therapist? Was she always this way when just meeting to chat or did she become more distant in her new role? Is this therapy more goal oriented or one day at a time? Maybe ask her what goals should you set and ask if she can provide more elaborate understanding of your needs? Personally I’d not necessarilly want t to be all lovey dovey. Does she know that you want more loving approach?

Some people greatly benefit from making comparisons to how someone else might handle something or how society is effecting something or what’s common for others. Personaly I find it helpful. Your t might not know that you prefer she doesn’t do that. Could you email her if not address face to face

[Mindtraveller]

Originally Posted by SarahSweden

Thanks. Yes, I´ll try to initiate such a conversation but as I´ve had so many disappointments and only gotten worse from having contact with psychiatry it´s not easy. Also, responding to what I tell her by actually focus on what I said and not talk about "someone else" or "society" shouldn´t be something I need to ask her to do.

I appreciate it's not easy to have that kind of conversation based on your past negative experiences of psychiatry and I get that you shouldn't have to tell her how to do her job. You say that you have to stay with this T to get your sick notes so I was just thinking of how you could work something out with her to make the best of the situation.

Hope you manage to find a way forward with your T.

[SarahSweden]

Thanks. Yes, it´s the same person but now we´ve decided to meet to talk about my issues.


No, we have always talked in such a way, like colleagues or similar, about psychiatry in general, about therapy, about politics and so in without getting into my personal matters.

We don´t have any specific goals, at least not as within CBT but I´ve mentioned to her some of my goals even if they aren´t practical to their nature. As an example I mentioned to her I want to reduce shame and I want to process certain things.

I haven´t mentioned to her I want a warmer approach but I told her a lot about how I felt about the two therapists I didn´t continue with. I told her I was negatively affected by them not smiling, not sharing about themselves, for being too cold.

But I don´t know if she understands I need more of validation or if this happens because we just started out again after the holidays.


I´ll try to mention it to her, I´m now allowed to e-mail. I also thought of trying to mention something more deep and serious and see how she reacts to that. Last time I felt she handled what I mentioned to her as it was nothing much to bother about and I got disappointed by that.

Originally Posted by divine1966

Is that the same person you were meeting in absence of a therapist? Was she always this way when just meeting to chat or did she become more distant in her new role? Is this therapy more goal oriented or one day at a time? Maybe ask her what goals should you set and ask if she can provide more elaborate understanding of your needs? Personally I’d not necessarilly want t to be all lovey dovey. Does she know that you want more loving approach?

Some people greatly benefit from making comparisons to how someone else might handle something or how society is effecting something or what’s common for others. Personaly I find it helpful. Your t might not know that you prefer she doesn’t do that. Could you email her if not address face to face

[nottrustin]

sounds like she is more a case manager than a therapist (by (by US standards).

[here today]

Originally Posted by SarahSweden

. . .

Even if it´s sometimes suitable to put things into perspective, counselling isn´t about a debate or discussion about "everybody else". I´m very disappointed in how she handles what I tell her.

Disappointment is a response to expectations that didn't work out. One can hold onto expectations, even if people aren't behaving that way, frequently because we feel we need what we are expecting or because we believe that what we are expecting is right, or something similar.

But reality is reality, how she handles things is how she handles it. Can you learn anything from her about where she is coming from by the way she handles things? If you don't understand, can you ask?

You've been repeatedly disappointed by therapists, as have I. I didn't like the counselor I went to see last week, but I'm going try what she suggested -- I found a way it fits in with what I want, even though I think she suggested it for another reason. And I'm going back. She suggested we try 3 visits. Maybe I can find a way to use what she says in a way that works for me. And even though I don't like her and find her far too directive and authoritarian for my taste, she also said that she was going to do what I asked for -- give me feedback about how I come across. I'll see. Got no hard and fast expectations she'll actually do that, but we'll see. And maybe I'll get something else out of it if she doesn't, again I'll see.

I've got a "defense" these days against her authoritarianism -- I know I don't like it and I no longer feel like I have to like her in order to go back and try to get something from her. That's different from your situation, I know, and different from what most people want from a therapist. Also very different from how I was with therapists in the past.

I tried and tried and there is no therapy, or therapist that I could find, for me. So, I'm going to try to take what I can get and see if I can make something from it. I'll only lose the cost of 3 sessions, and her fees are relatively low. If it doesn't work, I may try somebody else, or I may not. One step at a time.

Given that you may lose sick leave benefits if you don't see someone for treatment, I hope you can find a way within yourself to accept the way she is and try to find something positive in what she is trying to offer.

Originally Posted by nottrustin

sounds like she is more a case manager than a therapist (by (by US standards).

This is exactly what I think too -- this woman you have sessions with is not a licensed psychotherapist but is a case counselor from the way you describe her. So, case counselors don't offer empathetic talk-therapy. Their only job is to connect patients with counseling resources.

I think you should look for a licensed counselor who is properly trained in talk-therapy to talk to.

[ArtleyWilkins]

^^^Good post, Here Today.

Sarah, the actually qualified therapists you've seen are too impersonal for you. The friendlier counselor you are currently seeing is not qualified enough for you. Your choices are limited unless you decide to go back to work and not have to rely on sick pay to live.

Given the two options, which is the better? I realize it is the lesser of two (or three) bad options. Personally, I'd take an actual therapist with some skills, even if it was a therapy modality I wasn't that convinced about, who I might not personally like that much, and work with that therapist for awhile and see if, over time, it might work out better than I initially thought it would. Seems like you have deemed them unsatisfactory fairly quickly; sometimes it takes time. I, personally, wouldn't want to work with a counselor that really isn't a therapist if my mental health issues are serious enough that they are preventing me from working, particularly if her lack of skill in actually working with someone with serious mental health issues is pretty apparent.

It seems like those are your options under your circumstances.

[sarahsweets]

Have you flat out told her you want her to be more warm and fuzzy?

[SarahSweden]

Thanks here today. Yes, I agree sometimes expectations are too high and lead to disappointment. When it comes to counselling and therapy I though think that one of the basics is the counselor or therapist being able to meet what´s actually being brought to him/her.


I understand if my counselor acts this way in the beginning and perhaps she´s unsure how much she can ask and so on. But if she keeps answering me in such general terms I think we could just take about the weather or whatever comes to mind.


She knows in detail what I need and want to talk about as I wrote a suggestion for a care plan and gave it to her. She knows I have deeper issues and in this document I wrote about feeling grief, having suicidal thoughts and so on.

I´m sorry your counselor wasn´t the best fit but as you describe it you could perhaps gain something from her anyway. Is she a CBT therapist? It sounded a bit like she´s focused on goals more than meeting you on an emotional level.

What kind of issues did you present to her? If you want to share.

I´ve now told my social secretary about how I feel about being a patient within psychiatry and not getting better. I´ll se what she answers to that and if she has some solution to my need for sick leave.


I agree there can be some benefits from seeing this counselor but I also see it can be damaging if I tell her about personal and painful issues and she keeps answering in this general manner.

Originally Posted by here today

Disappointment is a response to expectations that didn't work out. One can hold onto expectations, even if people aren't behaving that way, frequently because we feel we need what we are expecting or because we believe that what we are expecting is right, or something similar.

But reality is reality, how she handles things is how she handles it. Can you learn anything from her about where she is coming from by the way she handles things? If you don't understand, can you ask?

You've been repeatedly disappointed by therapists, as have I. I didn't like the counselor I went to see last week, but I'm going try what she suggested -- I found a way it fits in with what I want, even though I think she suggested it for another reason. And I'm going back. She suggested we try 3 visits. Maybe I can find a way to use what she says in a way that works for me. And even though I don't like her and find her far too directive and authoritarian for my taste, she also said that she was going to do what I asked for -- give me feedback about how I come across. I'll see. Got no hard and fast expectations she'll actually do that, but we'll see. And maybe I'll get something else out of it if she doesn't, again I'll see.

I've got a "defense" these days against her authoritarianism -- I know I don't like it and I no longer feel like I have to like her in order to go back and try to get something from her. That's different from your situation, I know, and different from what most people want from a therapist. Also very different from how I was with therapists in the past.

I tried and tried and there is no therapy, or therapist that I could find, for me. So, I'm going to try to take what I can get and see if I can make something from it. I'll only lose the cost of 3 sessions, and her fees are relatively low. If it doesn't work, I may try somebody else, or I may not. One step at a time.

Given that you may lose sick leave benefits if you don't see someone for treatment, I hope you can find a way within yourself to accept the way she is and try to find something positive in what she is trying to offer.

[SarahSweden]

Thanks. Yes, she´s a case counselor but she also has a basic education in psychotherapy. I´ve seen her in her role as a case counselor for almost a year but she offered to see me about my issues as it didn´t work out with the psychotherapist I met with this autumn.


The case counselor told me I could write a document about what I want to talk about and so I did and I also left it to her. I´m at a dead end within psychiatry as I already tried two different therapists and when that didn´t work out due to chemistry and their therapeutic orientation I was sent back to this case counselor.

Originally Posted by StreetcarBlanche

This is exactly what I think too -- this woman you have sessions with is not a licensed psychotherapist but is a case counselor from the way you describe her. So, case counselors don't offer empathetic talk-therapy. Their only job is to connect patients with counseling resources.

I think you should look for a licensed counselor who is properly trained in talk-therapy to talk to.

[SarahSweden]

Thanks. I don´t actually have two options as I´m already referred back to this counselor as the therapy unit thought I needed to see someone who was more supportive. But they didn´t refer me to this counselor specifically but they only write what kind of care they recommend. Here we don´t have a referall system which means that you can´t get a referall to a specific therapist but to more or less "anyone" with a free time slot.

It was this current counselor who asked me if I wanted to continue with her and establish a care plan and I accepted. I wrote a suggestion for a care plan and now I kind of wait for her to address what´s in that plan and begin to help me.


To be fair, we´ve only have had one session so far (before we just talked about random things in wait for therapist I later on left) and I hope she´ll be able to discuss things with me on a more personal level.

I find it a bit strange that she turned to general reasoning during the whole hour but perhaps she was unsure how to address what I told her.

Originally Posted by ArtleyWilkins

^^^Good post, Here Today.

Sarah, the actually qualified therapists you've seen are too impersonal for you. The friendlier counselor you are currently seeing is not qualified enough for you. Your choices are limited unless you decide to go back to work and not have to rely on sick pay to live.

Given the two options, which is the better? I realize it is the lesser of two (or three) bad options. Personally, I'd take an actual therapist with some skills, even if it was a therapy modality I wasn't that convinced about, who I might not personally like that much, and work with that therapist for awhile and see if, over time, it might work out better than I initially thought it would. Seems like you have deemed them unsatisfactory fairly quickly; sometimes it takes time. I, personally, wouldn't want to work with a counselor that really isn't a therapist if my mental health issues are serious enough that they are preventing me from working, particularly if her lack of skill in actually working with someone with serious mental health issues is pretty apparent.

It seems like those are your options under your circumstances.

[NP_Complete]

Have you considered going back to work so you'd be able to pay for a private therapist and not be subject to the whims of the state-sponsored mental health system?

[SarahSweden]

This isn't an option for me due to my health state. I need therapy to lessen my anxiety and depression and then I plan to do more to get a job. I already take small steps but I'm not well enough to do without economic support.

Originally Posted by NP_Complete

Have you considered going back to work so you'd be able to pay for a private therapist and not be subject to the whims of the state-sponsored mental health system?

[Fuzzybear]

Thinking of you