Couch 214: The chihiro couch

NP_Complete · Apr 24, 2020, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chihirochild

Oh my goodness that video is adorable. Sad, but adorable.

I haven't tried one of the online therapy app things recently because once I tried to sign up for one and they wouldn't take me because I'm too high risk. But my group therapist did give me a recommendation for a colleague of hers who might be able to take me on. I accepted the recommendation but haven't called the colleague yet. I'm just too much of a freaking wimp.

I'm sorry your therapist is being kind of a dumb-dumb and focusing on practical stuff when that isn't what you need. I really don't get how people who are supposed to be all emotionally intelligent can be so blind.

The difference is that when I told him it bothered me and why, and I wasn't sure why until I started talking with him about it, he owned his part of it and things were said that made me feel better about the situation and they felt authentic. I hope you get a good response to that email.

NP_Complete · Apr 24, 2020, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonesomeTonight

I think considering the pandemic (where you'd have to go to the store to get a card), an email/text/Facebook message (however you know to communicate with them) is fine. And no idea if you had any connection to them, but sorry for your loss.

That's kind of what I was leaning toward, but wanted some outside opinions on it.

I'm not very close with my cousin. I met his son once or twice. It's sad that he died so young though.

Elio · Apr 24, 2020, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chihirochild

I feel like I need more emotional support and containment from you in order to do the difficult work that you propose will help me to feel better in the long run (e.g. owning my desires for caretaking, fully experiencing my feelings without dissociating into fantasies of self-harm).

Forgive me, but isn't asking for more emotional support, acknowledging (owning) and advocating for your desire/need to be taken cared of... or does he mean you need to own your desire to take care of others and how that desire plays into some of the stresses of doing your job?

Quote:

Originally Posted by chihirochild

He said that if I was telling him specifically what to do/say then he would do/say it, within reason. I was too tired to repeat for the millionth time that I don't know exactly what I need and that in my opinion part of his work is to join me in figuring that out, that I don't want to hand him a script and have him read from it because that just seems stupid and phony.

I agree that he should be working with you to find or define those items. I also see his point that he is not inside you so he doesn't know how the things he is doing is working; only the things that are not working. T and I have a few rituals/routines that we stumbled upon. Mostly they have grown organically as I acknowledge that something done felt good/positive in some way. So from that perspective, I did have to ask for them or at least tell her... hey that worked, that felt good. There's even been a few times where I tell her not to do something that has worked in the past because my mood is such that I would take it as patronizing not supportive.

Are there things he has done that has felt supportive - perhaps you don't need to hand him a script but acknowledge what has worked in the past and request those items?

If there's nothing from him, has there been anything from someone else you'd like to hear/get from him that felt supportive? If you let your fantasies free to play in your head around the type of support you'd like to have from him, what would it look like regardless of the reality of it occurring?

I have a feeling that since you are attached to him, that there's something he has done that has left you feeling supported/connected. It also doesn't sound like he doesn't want to support you (within limits), so maybe if you can't think of something that has worked in the past; maybe you can sense the head space you are coming from with it and google what are supportive things to do for someone that is that space/age/developmental level/having that experience and use trial and error with what feels most you.

It's really hard when one doesn't know what specifically to ask for and yeah, it would be awesome if they could just look at us and tell what we need. I'm sorry you find your self circling.

ScarletPimpernel · Apr 24, 2020, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonesomeTonight

Did he at least sell the Tesla? I know he may not be able to sell through Carmax right now, but could try listing it privately. Even to get some money for it. Or did he trade it in?

As for other services, your H lost his job, right? You should be able to apply for Medicaid again. Do you get SNAP? (formerly known as food stamps). Should also be eligible for that as well. I'd try getting in touch with social services to see if there's anything else you can get help with. In terms of losing the house, I think you rent, right? I know many locations are not requiring rental payments for certain time and putting evictions on hold, so look into that.

Also, didn't your H at one time express interest in driving for Ubereats or Grubhub? I think you said you'd have to help. I imagine those places are getting plenty of business right now (assuming restaurants are still open for delivery and carryout in your area). Maybe an idea to make some extra money?

H hasn't sold the Tesla yet. He's waiting for CarMax to open up to get a quote. He did get a quote from carvana, but he wants to get the best deal.

H still has his record label that he is bringing in some money from. I don't really want him to do delivery services because it increases the risk of him getting sick. We (my dad, H, and I) are considered high risk if we get the virus. So we try to have as little contact with the outside world.

L sent me a link to the women's resource center here. I'll look into that. I'll also see if we can do food stamps. We tried once before and got denied.

WarmFuzzySocks · Apr 24, 2020, 05:52 PM

kitties.jpg

Crotchety cat is still openly disdainful of those impertinent kittens, but when fluffy patchwork kitten curled up next to him, he stretched out his paw to hold kitty hands with her. I'm on to him now.

ArtieTheSequal · Apr 24, 2020, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarmFuzzySocks

Attachment 10960

Crotchety cat is still openly disdainful of those impertinent kittens, but when fluffy patchwork kitten curled up next to him, he stretched out his paw to hold kitty hands with her. I'm on to him now.

Awww! Thanks for sharing this pic.

WarmFuzzySocks · Apr 24, 2020, 06:01 PM

@@, I am so sorry about your neighbor.

Loaner dog is a pretty lucky pup to already have a new place and a new cat to keep him company.

WarmFuzzySocks · Apr 24, 2020, 06:14 PM

chihiro, I don't know how much clearer you can be with your t. When I read your explanations, it feels to me like you're screaming 1+1=2 into his ear with a bullhorn and he's just

.

You are a medical professional during a grueling global health crisis. The most relevant context I've got is that I have a friend who is not an ICU nurse who has been cross-trained and is one now out of necessity. From her accounts I cannot imagine tackling anything in therapy other than support work for immediate ongoing grief and exhaustion and crisis. Looking at it from that context, I am not sure your t's proposal that you tackle deeply personal exploration is a sound one.

So many hugs. I wonder if it might be helpful to put the work with this t aside, access a different therapist who can provide the nurturing supportive care you need right now, and decide later whether to end the relationship with your current t or to pick up and continue the work he's proposing when you have the bandwidth.

Love

ETA: I also wonder whether the necessary transition to telehealth right now might ease some of your insurance and professional relationship restrictions? Or are you still able to access therapy in person?

SheHulk07 · Apr 24, 2020, 09:14 PM

H came over tonight to make dinner for the family. I've been trying to allow and encourage that but only once a week, not every day. He came in the bedroom while I was watching a show and started trying to rub my back and hug me. I told him that he's not getting it at all...I don't want to be touched by him. That's not the agreement we have right now and of course he got defensive about it. After he left, my father told me that the kids (and me) seem to be doing a lot better without him here. I told T2 today that it feels like such a sudden and unexpected shift this past month, but it's been an eye opener that I'm actually handling this.

atisketatasket · Apr 24, 2020, 09:47 PM

I need to quit getting my hopes up when my mother plans to do something new, because invariably she gets paranoid (this is new the past few years, probably age-related) when it doesn’t go perfectly and bails.

In this case, she was supposed to Zoom with her craft club (knitting etc.). I gave her a bunch of directions last night, including “you’ll probably have to download the app.” She clicks on the link this morning, it sends her to the app store to download the app. And as the app store always does, it asks her for a password to start the download. She didn’t like that, so she gave up. I was really hoping if she used Zoom she’d join the family calls.

I know it’s probably age, maybe incipient dementia, maybe the paranoia that can come with hearing loss expanding, but it sometimes boggles my mind that a woman who set out to become a doctor long before that was a common career choice for women, overcame a disability, and got death threats over a unpopular medically-related political stance she took publicly, is scared off by a password.

I’m not actually criticizing her, I’m just frustrated. I realized a few years back she is who she is and won’t change and I love her regardless because who she is is still pretty great but sometimes I still get my hopes up.

Quietmind 2 · Apr 25, 2020, 05:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chihirochild

Just finished a session with T. He says that in order for me to get better I need to do all this mental gymnastics like owning my desires for care/connection, experiencing my feelings without dissociating into fantasies of SI/SH. I said that this work feels intolerable right now, that he is not hearing me or understanding my emotional needs. I said that it feels like I'm lying on the ground bleeding out and he's standing at a chalkboard drawing a diagram of the cardiovascular system. He said that if I was telling him specifically what to do/say then he would do/say it, within reason. I was too tired to repeat for the millionth time that I don't know exactly what I need and that in my opinion part of his work is to join me in figuring that out, that I don't want to hand him a script and have him read from it because that just seems stupid and phony.

I'm so sick of this. I just want to quit but I can't because I'm stupid and attached and hopeful that one day he'll figure it out. I feel like someone in a crappy romantic relationship who just can't seem to separate from their partner because they have this eternal hope that the partner will change. And all my friends are telling me I'm crazy for sticking with him, and a large part of me agrees, but I just can't bring myself to "break up" with him.

Hugs. So sorry your T is being such a bleeping stubborn person.

Quietmind 2 · Apr 25, 2020, 05:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarmFuzzySocks

chihiro, I don't know how much clearer you can be with your t. When I read your explanations, it feels to me like you're screaming 1+1=2 into his ear with a bullhorn and he's just

.

You are a medical professional during a grueling global health crisis. The most relevant context I've got is that I have a friend who is not an ICU nurse who has been cross-trained and is one now out of necessity. From her accounts I cannot imagine tackling anything in therapy other than support work for immediate ongoing grief and exhaustion and crisis. Looking at it from that context, I am not sure your t's proposal that you tackle deeply personal exploration is a sound one.

So many hugs. I wonder if it might be helpful to put the work with this t aside, access a different therapist who can provide the nurturing supportive care you need right now, and decide later whether to end the relationship with your current t or to pick up and continue the work he's proposing when you have the bandwidth.

Love

ETA: I also wonder whether the necessary transition to telehealth right now might ease some of your insurance and professional relationship restrictions? Or are you still able to access therapy in person?

I agree. Well said.

chihirochild · Apr 25, 2020, 07:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarmFuzzySocks

chihiro, I don't know how much clearer you can be with your t. When I read your explanations, it feels to me like you're screaming 1+1=2 into his ear with a bullhorn and he's just

.

You are a medical professional during a grueling global health crisis. The most relevant context I've got is that I have a friend who is not an ICU nurse who has been cross-trained and is one now out of necessity. From her accounts I cannot imagine tackling anything in therapy other than support work for immediate ongoing grief and exhaustion and crisis. Looking at it from that context, I am not sure your t's proposal that you tackle deeply personal exploration is a sound one.

So many hugs. I wonder if it might be helpful to put the work with this t aside, access a different therapist who can provide the nurturing supportive care you need right now, and decide later whether to end the relationship with your current t or to pick up and continue the work he's proposing when you have the bandwidth.

Love

ETA: I also wonder whether the necessary transition to telehealth right now might ease some of your insurance and professional relationship restrictions? Or are you still able to access therapy in person?

Thanks, WFS

It makes me feel less crazy that y'all are also flummoxed by his behaviour.

I'm not quite sure what you mean about tele-health easing restrictions? My T is not seeing anyone in person these days, and seeing him over Zoom/FaceTime hasn't really made anything better.

chihirochild · Apr 25, 2020, 07:22 AM

Sent this to my T to try to get him to understand what I'm going through at work. Contains medical stuff and COVID stuff so would advise avoiding the part under the trigger if that kinda stuff stresses you out.

I'm really really sick of all of the toxic positivity going around. Like, my program director keeps telling us how much we're learning and what good experience this is for us. And the CMO keeps praising us for our "heroic" work. But I don't want him to call me a hero, I want him to give me sufficient PPE (yes, every single day) and a fair amount of hazard pay. But since there's this narrative of Bravery and Heroism, any time I talk about how hard things are, I get shushed and shamed by my colleagues and my superiors.

(This is not to say that I don't appreciate support from y'all and IRL friends about it--I am still so touched that I'm writing on the chihiro couch right now--but to say that I'm tired of being asked to collude in a narrative that excludes many aspects of my experience and the experience of others.)

Possible trigger:

There’s a patient I can’t get out of my head. It’s a man I took care of a few weeks ago. He didn’t have COVID, just really bad lung disease. We extubated him knowing he was going to die. I helped his wife of 48 years lie in bed with him after we took the tube out. But the hospital administrators made me kick her out after a few hours because of the risk that she’d get COVID from being in the hospital. So I sat there with him and held his hand until he died. And then I called his wife and told her that he’d passed. And she thanked me and told me she loved me, just because I brought her a cup of coffee once and let her hold her dying husband for a little while.

Then there was the woman who did have COVID—38 years old and on a vent. Her 16 year old daughter and 9 year old son were home alone trying to take care of each other. They called twice a day and every time they asked when their mom was going to come home. I don’t know what happened to her.

And the man in his 40s with COVID whose wife spoke only Portuguese so his young daughter did all the translating over the phone (I tried calling with the regular interpreter but the patient’s wife preferred that the daughter translate, even though it clearly stressed the daughter out). They kept making these heartbreaking suggestions like, “maybe if you wake him up and feed him he’ll get stronger,” and, “if he has too much inflammation in his lungs can you give him ibuprofen to make the inflammation go away?” Every time I called with bad news the daughter said, “doctor, I want you to do everything you can to save my father." They sent us pizza one day at lunch to thank us for our work, though I didn’t get the impression they had a hell of a lot of extra money to spare. He got transferred to BI for ECMO. He’s probably not going to make it.

And the woman with COVID who has been intubated since late March. She kept waking up on the vent and nearly extubating herself. Looked me right in the eye as I was holding her down, like I was torturing her. One morning before my attending got in she woke up and freaked out and got dyssynchronous with the vent and her oxygen saturation got down to 50% and I thought she was going to die on me. She didn’t but it was a close thing. She’s going to get a trach, but it hardly matters because there aren’t enough ventilators to go around so I have no idea what the hell is going to happen to her.

This just goes on and on. Putting on a Tyvek suit and holding up my cell phone to dying people’s ears as their families wail and cry and tell them how much they love them, that it’s okay to go, that so-and-so is waiting for them in heaven. It’s worse when they die all alone in an empty room because someone else who we might actually be able to save is crashing and we can’t spare an extra pair of hands even to be with some poor soul while they pass.

I don’t want to do this anymore.

LonesomeTonight · Apr 25, 2020, 08:05 AM

Hugs, Chihiro. That all sounds so heartbreaking. I hope it helps your T understand better what you're going through and that he can give you the comfort and support you're seeking.

granite1 · Apr 25, 2020, 10:15 AM

yesterday was the first visit with this new therapist that i was upset. just minutes before i saw him i had just learned that my step mothers cancer has returned and it is probably in her pelvic bones.it started out as bladder cancer, they ended up removing her bladder but now it is back. unfortunately i have the same bladder cancer. though my 3 month check up hs shown no hint of return . neither did my stepmothers at that point . so im worried about this and so many other feelings that are going on in my head . it was overwhelming . i went to therapy and he started to recap what we were talking about the week before , something xt never did .he does like to talk and ask questions and take some notes .all new experiences for me .he remembers what i was talking about the week before .this time i wanted to talk to him about what all this is doing to me . i had so many mixed feelings about wanting to be there for my step mother to feeling angry that i need to be there and how much they are going to expect from me . i dont know what kind of response i was wanting or expecting but he talked about setting boundaries having my husband help with this etc . all of witch is what my ex therapist would say .it just angered me and i found it useless if i could just set boundaries and so on i wouldn't need to be seeing him .all these therapists seem to think this is so easy and the answer to it all . it was like if i set boundaries these feelings would be gone . NOT TRUE. again he said that how i am feeling about it all is ok and i am responding from an abusive traumatic background . he just doesnt get that it isnt a matter of knowing and accepting what i can and am willing to do to help and being able to set that boundary but being able to help at the level that they want me to and being able to feel good about it and accepting of it . not feel so bitter and angry . and my stepmother and farther have such a sense of entitlement about what hey think i need to be willing to do for them. how i was brought up i dont feel i owe them anything . i only lived with them for a year and my step mother kicked me out .never went back to live with them . anyhow im not in a great place at the moment

Quietmind 2 · Apr 25, 2020, 10:56 AM

Hugs if wanted, Chihiro and granite

Salmon77 · Apr 25, 2020, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SheHulk07

H came over tonight to make dinner for the family. I've been trying to allow and encourage that but only once a week, not every day. He came in the bedroom while I was watching a show and started trying to rub my back and hug me. I told him that he's not getting it at all...I don't want to be touched by him. That's not the agreement we have right now and of course he got defensive about it. After he left, my father told me that the kids (and me) seem to be doing a lot better without him here. I told T2 today that it feels like such a sudden and unexpected shift this past month, but it's been an eye opener that I'm actually handling this.

Makes me really happy to read about you standing up for yourself like this and feeling like you can handle things. Really awesome progress.

Lemoncake · Apr 25, 2020, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonesomeTonight

It's not just the child and husband being at home, but the husband having to be on work conference calls at the time, so he can't necessarily handle it. It's also a case of, they are throwing all these changes at me right at once and making all these demands, and I'm limited as to what I can do realistically if they want the email out by, say, 11 a.m. Like I keep sending out drafts, they keep making changes, at some point, I just have to say, "OK, sending it out now!"

And now they're all sending me thanks and appreciation saying how great the email is. The demanding one also emailed me separately to apologize.

Also, to clarify, this is not my job, but a volunteer thing.

Maybe just send a reminder saying just that, that everything needs to be ready at X time and you will only be available between x and Y time not throughout the whole day.

Lemoncake · Apr 25, 2020, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by granite1

yesterday was the first visit with this new therapist that i was upset. just minutes before i saw him i had just learned that my step mothers cancer has returned and it is probably in her pelvic bones.it started out as bladder cancer, they ended up removing her bladder but now it is back. unfortunately i have the same bladder cancer. though my 3 month check up hs shown no hint of return . neither did my stepmothers at that point . so im worried about this and so many other feelings that are going on in my head . it was overwhelming . i went to therapy and he started to recap what we were talking about the week before , something xt never did .he does like to talk and ask questions and take some notes .all new experiences for me .he remembers what i was talking about the week before .this time i wanted to talk to him about what all this is doing to me . i had so many mixed feelings about wanting to be there for my step mother to feeling angry that i need to be there and how much they are going to expect from me . i dont know what kind of response i was wanting or expecting but he talked about setting boundaries having my husband help with this etc . all of witch is what my ex therapist would say .it just angered me and i found it useless if i could just set boundaries and so on i wouldn't need to be seeing him .all these therapists seem to think this is so easy and the answer to it all . it was like if i set boundaries these feelings would be gone . NOT TRUE. again he said that how i am feeling about it all is ok and i am responding from an abusive traumatic background . he just doesnt get that it isnt a matter of knowing and accepting what i can and am willing to do to help and being able to set that boundary but being able to help at the level that they want me to and being able to feel good about it and accepting of it . not feel so bitter and angry . and my stepmother and farther have such a sense of entitlement about what hey think i need to be willing to do for them. how i was brought up i dont feel i owe them anything . i only lived with them for a year and my step mother kicked me out .never went back to live with them . anyhow im not in a great place at the moment

Just sending you huge hugs.

Lemoncake · Apr 25, 2020, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chihirochild

Sent this to my T to try to get him to understand what I'm going through at work. Contains medical stuff and COVID stuff so would advise avoiding the part under the trigger if that kinda stuff stresses you out.

I'm really really sick of all of the toxic positivity going around. Like, my program director keeps telling us how much we're learning and what good experience this is for us. And the CMO keeps praising us for our "heroic" work. But I don't want him to call me a hero, I want him to give me sufficient PPE (yes, every single day) and a fair amount of hazard pay. But since there's this narrative of Bravery and Heroism, any time I talk about how hard things are, I get shushed and shamed by my colleagues and my superiors.

(This is not to say that I don't appreciate support from y'all and IRL friends about it--I am still so touched that I'm writing on the chihiro couch right now--but to say that I'm tired of being asked to collude in a narrative that excludes many aspects of my experience and the experience of others.)

Possible trigger:

There’s a patient I can’t get out of my head. It’s a man I took care of a few weeks ago. He didn’t have COVID, just really bad lung disease. We extubated him knowing he was going to die. I helped his wife of 48 years lie in bed with him after we took the tube out. But the hospital administrators made me kick her out after a few hours because of the risk that she’d get COVID from being in the hospital. So I sat there with him and held his hand until he died. And then I called his wife and told her that he’d passed. And she thanked me and told me she loved me, just because I brought her a cup of coffee once and let her hold her dying husband for a little while.

Then there was the woman who did have COVID—38 years old and on a vent. Her 16 year old daughter and 9 year old son were home alone trying to take care of each other. They called twice a day and every time they asked when their mom was going to come home. I don’t know what happened to her.

And the man in his 40s with COVID whose wife spoke only Portuguese so his young daughter did all the translating over the phone (I tried calling with the regular interpreter but the patient’s wife preferred that the daughter translate, even though it clearly stressed the daughter out). They kept making these heartbreaking suggestions like, “maybe if you wake him up and feed him he’ll get stronger,” and, “if he has too much inflammation in his lungs can you give him ibuprofen to make the inflammation go away?” Every time I called with bad news the daughter said, “doctor, I want you to do everything you can to save my father." They sent us pizza one day at lunch to thank us for our work, though I didn’t get the impression they had a hell of a lot of extra money to spare. He got transferred to BI for ECMO. He’s probably not going to make it.

And the woman with COVID who has been intubated since late March. She kept waking up on the vent and nearly extubating herself. Looked me right in the eye as I was holding her down, like I was torturing her. One morning before my attending got in she woke up and freaked out and got dyssynchronous with the vent and her oxygen saturation got down to 50% and I thought she was going to die on me. She didn’t but it was a close thing. She’s going to get a trach, but it hardly matters because there aren’t enough ventilators to go around so I have no idea what the hell is going to happen to her.

This just goes on and on. Putting on a Tyvek suit and holding up my cell phone to dying people’s ears as their families wail and cry and tell them how much they love them, that it’s okay to go, that so-and-so is waiting for them in heaven. It’s worse when they die all alone in an empty room because someone else who we might actually be able to save is crashing and we can’t spare an extra pair of hands even to be with some poor soul while they pass.

I don’t want to do this anymore.

I know word's won't really help right now. Sending you love.

ArtieTheSequal · Apr 25, 2020, 12:09 PM

hugs, chihiro and granite and anyone else who wants.

LonesomeTonight · Apr 25, 2020, 12:43 PM

Hugs, Granite...

WarmFuzzySocks · Apr 25, 2020, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chihirochild

Thanks, WFS

It makes me feel less crazy that y'all are also flummoxed by his behaviour.

I'm not quite sure what you mean about tele-health easing restrictions? My T is not seeing anyone in person these days, and seeing him over Zoom/FaceTime hasn't really made anything better.

Sorry that wasn't clear....I was thinking that you had struggled to find a therapist a while back because your insurance and your professional relationships were limiting who was available to you. But if you find a new (or additional) therapist right now for support, it might not matter if they are near you or not. So you might have more options.

LostOnTheTrail · Apr 25, 2020, 03:27 PM

Hey, Couch.

Tech query - if somebody's set up a Zoom meeting for a particular day and time, and the following week's meeting is at the same time...can I use the original link, or do I need to request a new link?

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Couch 214: The chihiro couch

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