[HarperF]

Hi PCF,

I'm a MA-level clinical psychologist in training going under counseling (unrelated to my training).

We have a most peculiar kind of alliance rupture I can't put my fingers on. Perhaps this is quite simple and I just can't see the forest for the trees.

I've been in this private, self-funded therapy with my integrative therapist for about 100ish hours. We have an excellent rapport, excellent relationship. There is a sense of some shared interests (psychology, sports). I sense there is a deep and caring atmosphere for me, and I actually do care for my therapist. T couldn't take my caring well initially, but grew accustomed to.

During our last session T burst out in tears that therapy has to be done the correct way, and for T it looked like we're just talking like friends. I mentioned, I still have a great sense of development and movement in my life. I'm getting closer therapeutic goals. T couldn't accept me being content on the grounds that during the last couple of sessions we weren't professional enough.

It looks like as if professional conduct and my experience of helpful sessions are in conflict.

Shedding some tears T mentions the need of not being transparent and that boundaries weren't invented just for nothing. T kept referring to professional conduct. I was at loss for words, I couldn't reply with anything to comfort T. On my account, there weren't any boundaries violated. Or was it me, who violated, when I replied empathically to a T self-disclosure? Somehow this I doubt. There were a couple of boundary crossings though, so I can understand where T is coming from regarding not having completely sanitized sessions.

From my standpoint, this looks like a weird case of therapeutic rupture, where the break is coming from the expectations of the therapist instead of the client. I wonder how to continue? T emphasized how it's bad that we're talking like friends. T really wants to do a good job, but talking like friends is a no-no. It just occurred to me, T might think of me as a friend? Would it be the right thing for me to end the counselling sessions?

I can let go of me visiting T in the office, but it would be devastating letting go of the relationship. It is a great source of comfort and a powerful incentive of development.

I appreciate your thoughts.

[Amyjay]

It does sound like there is a friendship that is interfering with the process of therapy. Your T shouldn't be disclosing much personal info to you and she shouldn't be bursting into tears in *your* therapy.
What is going on there? Something has gotten muddled.

[Brown Owl 2]

It sounds to me like your T might have developed some insecurities about whether she’s being a good therapist. I personally find a bit of self disclosure on the part of the therapist helpful. You describe it as being a weird kind of rupture, and I wonder if you have the expectation that ruptures would be ‘caused’ by the client. In my experience therapists tend to be imperfect and to bring their own insecurities or stuff to the relationship.

[nottrustin]

Could she being having a lot of self doubt.

Also, since you are training to be a counselor yourself, maybe she thinks she has to model a perfect by thr book theraputic relationship. Maybe she feels like by having looser boundaries whe is providing you a bad example of what therapy looks like.

While not a counselor myself, I work in a hospital psychiatric program. I saw a long term therapist who worked in my community. We often discussed the state of the mental health system in our state. She self disclosed quite a bit over the years. We had some sessions that very little hard work happened because I needed a break. Usually this fallowed some intense sessions. We saw it as continuing to build our theraputic alliance.

[Rive.]

I’m sorry, what??

Your T is complaining about lack of professional conduct... how “boundaries weren’t invented for nothing” or “therapy has to be done the correct way” when THEY burst into tears?! Who is breaking boundaries here? That is not being very self-aware.

Your T seems to have major counter-transference. IF they want the relationship to be more ‘professional’, they ought to do some self-reflection themselves.

I don’t think you are the one who violated boundaries. Your T was in it too, and seemingly participated in this not-so-professional dynamic. The break seems to be coming from your T overextending themselves and where the boundaries became blurred for them.

He/she needs supervision and a good dose of self-awareness.

What is happening between you two seems to be more friendship-based and, unless your T behaves more professionally, I don’t see how it could be a therapeutic relationship going forward.

[*Beth*]

I also believe that your T is experiencing a major case of countertransference. It's pretty clear that she needs to consult her own therapist, or someone, for supervision.

[HarperF]

Originally Posted by Amyjay

It does sound like there is a friendship that is interfering with the process of therapy. Your T shouldn't be disclosing much personal info to you and she shouldn't be bursting into tears in *your* therapy.
What is going on there? Something has gotten muddled.

T doesn't disclose much information. It's usually one or two things per session, related to my issue. It's been always something useful and I've often gave feedback on this. What happened I think it became too much to handle for T. T is overtly conscientious, which is pretty easy to pick up on, but disclosed a couple of sessions back nevertheless.

I think we got too close to comfort.

[Oliviab]

Yikes. When your T talked about "professional" and "boundaries," I think she was talking to yourself, not you. She clearly has a different sort of relationship with (or feelings for) you than is typical for her with clients, and it's making her uncomfortable and insecure. She definitely needs supervision, and perhaps her own therapist to help sort this out. It's not on you.

I am a T-in-training and my T and I have as a therapeutic goal to shift the relationship from client-therapists to collegial over time. This is a necessary goal, because our community is small enough that we already have overlapping relationships, we know many people in common, and we will run into each other in professional settings. So it's not wrong, per se, to have a therapeutic relationship that is atypical because of your shared profession, but this needs to be done carefully, thoughtfully, intentionally, and with transparency. And without your T bursting into tears.

[HarperF]

Originally Posted by Brown Owl 2

It sounds to me like your T might have developed some insecurities about whether she’s being a good therapist. I personally find a bit of self disclosure on the part of the therapist helpful. You describe it as being a weird kind of rupture, and I wonder if you have the expectation that ruptures would be ‘caused’ by the client. In my experience therapists tend to be imperfect and to bring their own insecurities or stuff to the relationship.

Yes. T is very susceptible to such thoughts. T - on T's account - can ruminate on such minuscule things that makes T an obsessive character.

For me, T's disclosures were big of help, because I could clearly see what comes from who in the relationship. T is certainly not an ideal neutral surface that I could project to.

On the ruptures - there is a considerable chunk of literature on alliance ruptures coming from the client, but I haven't found anything that would cover ruptures caused by the therapist.

[HarperF]

Originally Posted by nottrustin

Could she being having a lot of self doubt.

Also, since you are training to be a counselor yourself, maybe she thinks she has to model a perfect by thr book theraputic relationship. Maybe she feels like by having looser boundaries whe is providing you a bad example of what therapy looks like.

Oo, yes, this definitely has crossed my mind. T also knows about some of my cases, and that I'm in-demand to the level of exhaustion in my training classes.

Originally Posted by nottrustin

While not a counselor myself, I work in a hospital psychiatric program. I saw a long term therapist who worked in my community. We often discussed the state of the mental health system in our state. She self disclosed quite a bit over the years. We had some sessions that very little hard work happened because I needed a break. Usually this fallowed some intense sessions. We saw it as continuing to build our theraputic alliance.

Thank you for sharing this. It's nice to see how others feel this is normal, as T takes officially mandated recommendations of neutrality a bit too serious. We can see where that leads to.

Originally Posted by Rive.

I’m sorry, what??

Your T is complaining about lack of professional conduct... how “boundaries weren’t invented for nothing” or “therapy has to be done the correct way” when THEY burst into tears?! Who is breaking boundaries here? That is not being very self-aware.

I think T was very aware of that, but just couldn't take it anymore.

I think T has run out of energy to keep this contained. T didn't look very composed at the start of the session. Maybe T is overworked or something happened outside the sessions?

Originally Posted by Rive.

Your T seems to have major counter-transference. IF they want the relationship to be more ‘professional’, they ought to do some self-reflection themselves.

Originally Posted by BethRags

I also believe that your T is experiencing a major case of countertransference.

T might, but I think the real element is what scares T. I have a sense of our relationship being very real. Perhaps the process of that being scary reminds T of breaking the rules and feeling horrible because of that? That really might pass as countertransference.

Originally Posted by Rive.

I don’t think you are the one who violated boundaries. Your T was in it too, and seemingly participated in this not-so-professional dynamic. The break seems to be coming from your T overextending themselves and where the boundaries became blurred for them.

I don't think T violated any boundaries. Certainly not mine. I just wonder whether we can continue as client-therapist at this point, or this is the end of this relationship. Our relationship is clearly taking a toll on T.

Originally Posted by Rive.

He/she needs supervision and a good dose of self-awareness.

Originally Posted by BethRags

It's pretty clear that she needs to consult her own therapist, or someone, for supervision.

Actually I know T's supervisor, and I'm not entirely sure S would be of great help. We're from a smallish city, so we have like about 5 people both of us know personally, and about 10-20 both of us know professionally. I know S professionally, and S is not very good in handling transference issues.

Originally Posted by Rive.

What is happening between you two seems to be more friendship-based and, unless your T behaves more professionally, I don’t see how it could be a therapeutic relationship going forward.

Yes, I can totally understand this. How ironic that T is behaving unprofessionally because T's overt zeal to be professional.

[Oliviab]

Originally Posted by HarperF

Y
For me, T's disclosures were big of help, because I could clearly see what comes from who in the relationship. T is certainly not an ideal neutral surface that I could project to.

On the ruptures - there is a considerable chunk of literature on alliance ruptures coming from the client, but I haven't found anything that would cover ruptures caused by the therapist.

My T self-discloses a fair amount with me, too, and we talk about why this is. The disclosures are helpful; I have no interest in a blank-slate therapist.

I personally do not love how the literature talks about ruptures, as if they are something that "comes from" the client. That's not how I see it. The rupture is in the relationship and the relationships is between two people (not belonging to either), it is co-created, and each person brings things to it. When we have ruptures, my T and both talk about how we each contributed to the dynamic at play. We, of course, spend more time talking about my stuff, because it is my therapy, but he owns his part in things.

[HarperF]

Y

Originally Posted by Oliviab

Yikes. When your T talked about "professional" and "boundaries," I think she was talking to yourself, not you. She clearly has a different sort of relationship with (or feelings for) you than is typical for her with clients, and it's making her uncomfortable and insecure. She definitely needs supervision, and perhaps her own therapist to help sort this out. It's not on you.

Thank you Oliviab. My thoughts exactly.

Originally Posted by Oliviab

I am a T-in-training and my T and I have as a therapeutic goal to shift the relationship from client-therapists to collegial over time. This is a necessary goal, because our community is small enough that we already have overlapping relationships, we know many people in common, and we will run into each other in professional settings. So it's not wrong, per se, to have a therapeutic relationship that is atypical because of your shared profession, but this needs to be done carefully, thoughtfully, intentionally, and with transparency. And without your T bursting into tears.

Actually this haven't crossed my mind that this could be a valid therapeutic goal. Our community is small as well, and we have overlapping relationships too. We will definitely have encounters after the end of therapy, so why not end it well. Transparency is something really important for me...yet it makes T very anxious. I think it's T's issue. I hope T can get some help regarding this. I also think closing this in a nice and careful way might be an emotionally corrective experience.

Originally Posted by Oliviab

My T self-discloses a fair amount with me, too, and we talk about why this is. The disclosures are helpful; I have no interest in a blank-slate therapist.

As with some of the things you've already written - it's the same with me. It's empowering to read your comments.

Originally Posted by Oliviab

I personally do not love how the literature talks about ruptures, as if they are something that "comes from" the client. That's not how I see it. The rupture is in the relationship and the relationships is between two people (not belonging to either), it is co-created, and each person brings things to it. When we have ruptures, my T and both talk about how we each contributed to the dynamic at play. We, of course, spend more time talking about my stuff, because it is my therapy, but he owns his part in things.

Perhaps I wasn't careful enough with my wording, but I didn't intend to make it sound like it's the client's fault. It's just the therapist doesn't have such an empathic/relational depth to have foresight into what an interaction might mean for the client. I think it makes sense this way...and I would really love to repair this rupture, because I do care for T as both a person and a professional, but there's no such literature that would give any tools - or recommend intervention - from the client's part.

[Oliviab]

Originally Posted by HarperF

Perhaps I wasn't careful enough with my wording, but I didn't intend to make it sound like it's the client's fault. It's just the therapist doesn't have such an empathic/relational depth to have foresight into what an interaction might mean for the client. I think it makes sense this way...and I would really love to repair this rupture, because I do care for T as both a person and a professional, but there's no such literature that would give any tools - or recommend intervention - from the client's part.

Regarding ruptures, I thought you were clear/careful in your wording and I didn't get the impression that you think it's all the clients' fault. I just think the literature--especially the psychoanalytic approach and the concept of transference--treat it as such. I was sharing (what I think is) some mutual frustration with you over that fact, and over the lack of literature about how Ts contribute to ruptures. I do see you taking on a lot of responsibility for repairing this rupture--I hope your T is taking on a lot of the responsibility as well. The two of you could do some really good work around this. And I hear you on wanting to end well, not just for the corrective experience, but to avoid future awkwardness in a small community. Good luck with this--I hope you'll keep us informed.

[Omers]

IMO your T should have taken their emotions and reactions to supervision... that is excellent fodder for supervision.
My T and I have an extremely strong relationship that does often feel like a very close friendship... except that it is confined to set therapeutic times, places and boundaries. We don’t go off meeting in coffe houses or visiting each others homes. We have a lot of common interests and we often share about them. I know a great deal of his family, hobbies and life outside the office. All of this has furthered my healing without a doubt. Some clients need their T to be a Dr in a lab coat that prescribes interventions to fix their emotional state. I need a relational human being that has set this time aside to join with me, sometimes guiding me, on this journey towards greater wholeness. Keeping with the journey theme it is like going on a long hike up a mountain... sometimes the trail is rough and you focus only on continuing up the mountain. Sometimes the ruggedness opens into a beautiful meadow with a cool breeze and you chat, perhaps pausing a moment to enjoy that spot on the journey... but you are still on the trail, still climbing the mountain. To say that such a beautiful rapport between therapist and client is unboundaried or detrimental is garbage.
My T often reminds me that the therapy is the relationship.

[HarperF]

Originally Posted by Oliviab

Regarding ruptures, I thought you were clear/careful in your wording and I didn't get the impression that you think it's all the clients' fault. I just think the literature--especially the psychoanalytic approach and the concept of transference--treat it as such. I was sharing (what I think is) some mutual frustration with you over that fact, and over the lack of literature about how Ts contribute to ruptures. I do see you taking on a lot of responsibility for repairing this rupture--I hope your T is taking on a lot of the responsibility as well. The two of you could do some really good work around this. And I hear you on wanting to end well, not just for the corrective experience, but to avoid future awkwardness in a small community. Good luck with this--I hope you'll keep us informed.

Ah, I'm so glad to read this. Yes, there are a couple of analysts using transference as a bludgeon, to have power over the relationship. It was pretty liberating reading the works of Greenson, Mitchell, Aron, Safran, Muran, etc. that not all psychodynamically oriented therapists share the ways of the neoclassical movement. (T is integrative, not clean dynamic, but has elements in the stack from the British object relations school)

Yes, T is very keen on taking the responsibility. Actually T is pretty zealous of taking responsibilities. T is an amazing therapist, who helped me overcome pretty harsh as well as hard-to-see difficulties in life. I have trust that we can resolve this, and I will post updates to this thread.

I'm very grateful for your responses. You are a really great help!

[HarperF]

Originally Posted by Omers

IMO your T should have taken their emotions and reactions to supervision... that is excellent fodder for supervision.
My T and I have an extremely strong relationship that does often feel like a very close friendship... except that it is confined to set therapeutic times, places and boundaries. We don’t go off meeting in coffe houses or visiting each others homes.

With the exception of boundaries - at least on my T's account - this could be said of our relationship as well. But it looks like the very close friendship part started bothering my therapist.

Originally Posted by Omers

We have a lot of common interests and we often share about them. I know a great deal of his family, hobbies and life outside the office. All of this has furthered my healing without a doubt.

This is pretty relieving to read. I really do feel the same. But looks like this is a sign of unprofessional conduct on account of my T, and was the reason of T's collapse during our last session.

Originally Posted by Omers

Some clients need their T to be a Dr in a lab coat that prescribes interventions to fix their emotional state. I need a relational human being that has set this time aside to join with me, sometimes guiding me, on this journey towards greater wholeness.

Being from an Eastern European country, I really do wonder if T has ever heard of Stephen Mitchell. Our newest textbook on psychotherapies, pressed in 2009 still has majority of its conceptual roots of papers from the 1980s. Of the newer textbooks we only have some Gabbard and Fonagy translated. Maybe Daniel N Stern does count? Having The Interpersonal World of the Infant translated was quite a big deal couple of years ago.

We don't even have an official name in our language for relational psychotherapy. About 90% of the things I read I have to do it in English.

Originally Posted by Omers

Keeping with the journey theme it is like going on a long hike up a mountain... sometimes the trail is rough and you focus only on continuing up the mountain. Sometimes the ruggedness opens into a beautiful meadow with a cool breeze and you chat, perhaps pausing a moment to enjoy that spot on the journey... but you are still on the trail, still climbing the mountain. To say that such a beautiful rapport between therapist and client is unboundaried or detrimental is garbage.
My T often reminds me that the therapy is the relationship.

It's a pretty exciting endeavor indeed! This time I'm more puzzled than emotionally affected by my current situation. I mean we're in a close enough relationship with T for me to believe that we can work this through. Either by continuing or closing the therapy. I'm open to either end.

And yes. Our rapport is definitely not unboundaried. I think where we go wrong is that when T does a self-disclosure T doesn't trust it's for my use. T starts self-doubting. Then makes up for it by giving extra time during the session. This T disclosed last sitting. I probably left off some details, as T was pretty vague regarding the time issue - mentioned the connection between the two, but also told, this slip with keeping time must be telling about something!

[Elio]

I find it interesting your T's stress around "doing it right". With everything that has happened in 2020, my T has opened up more. I have actually struggled a lot with having deep sessions. What has happened though is when I have those moments of deepness, my T goes pretty quiet.

In short, it seems she is following my lead, even when conversations are more like friends, she still has her T hat on and is ready for me to lead us into something deeper. When I make one of those more reflective statements or questions, she quiets down and changes how she interacts with me, it becomes more supportive, encouraging, and analytical.

She also subscribes to the belief that more causal sessions are there for a reason and does not discount the therapeutic value of them, even if the value is to strengthen our alliance.

Which leads me back to your T's stress around "doing it right". For a T, isn't "doing it right" all about focus and intent. If she feels you guys are simply talking like friends; isn't that more about her feelings and thoughts on your interactions, that she's losing that focus rather than what is being discussed or done in the moment?

The red flag I saw when I read your initial post and through the tread was how you might find yourself in the situation where the interaction start having moments of you being her therapist or supervisor rather than you being able/allowed to stay the client. It is a dance and it might be hard to see how things move through out the sessions and the relationship. I agree transparency and discussing what life might be once you have completed your therapy with her will be important since your community is small.

[HarperF]

Originally Posted by Elio

I find it interesting your T's stress around "doing it right". With everything that has happened in 2020, my T has opened up more. I have actually struggled a lot with having deep sessions. What has happened though is when I have those moments of deepness, my T goes pretty quiet.

In short, it seems she is following my lead, even when conversations are more like friends, she still has her T hat on and is ready for me to lead us into something deeper. When I make one of those more reflective statements or questions, she quiets down and changes how she interacts with me, it becomes more supportive, encouraging, and analytical.

I think where my T is uncomfortable is that when our conversation are more like friends, T can't differentiate that with actual conversation of friends, because T acts very similar in therapy and outside of it. This closeness makes T significantly apprehensive.

Originally Posted by Elio

She also subscribes to the belief that more causal sessions are there for a reason and does not discount the therapeutic value of them, even if the value is to strengthen our alliance.

My T wasn't really aware of therapeutic alliance as a concept. I guess this accounts from T training are still kicking somewhere around the 1980s in the country I'm from.

Though T is very intuitive in providing excellent therapy, on the conceptual level makes professional boundaries - by which T means the Freudian trinity of anonymity-neutrality-confidentiality. In T's head any breach from anonymity/neutrality is a technical mistake. When I say it's useful to me, or bring up its uses in non-classical psychoanalysis, T says those are important in Gestalt and CBT as well. Usually we stop there, as both of us understand, theoretical debates are not quite suitable in the therapeutic relationship.

Originally Posted by Elio

Which leads me back to your T's stress around "doing it right". For a T, isn't "doing it right" all about focus and intent. If she feels you guys are simply talking like friends; isn't that more about her feelings and thoughts on your interactions, that she's losing that focus rather than what is being discussed or done in the moment?

Yes. It's her feelings and thoughts. But there's a preference on my side that T self-discloses, because I'm not very comfortable with neutrality. Still, there was a gray area which we could work together just perfectly. Now T disclosed more than T is comfortable with and broke down.

I put that on the account of T being such conscientious that would go even that far. Which makes me think, in spite of T's opaqueness and hiding, I really do know T. Yet this makes T uncomfortable -- because it's not aligned with classical analytic thought. Even though T is not a classical Freudian, but thinks that is the only professional way of doing therapy.

Originally Posted by Elio

The red flag I saw when I read your initial post and through the tread was how you might find yourself in the situation where the interaction start having moments of you being her therapist or supervisor rather than you being able/allowed to stay the client. It is a dance and it might be hard to see how things move through out the sessions and the relationship. I agree transparency and discussing what life might be once you have completed your therapy with her will be important since your community is small.

Yes. Whenever I meet anyone with the classical/neoclassical analytic approach, I automatically assume that person is out of his mind and tend to act like a person centered therapist.

[sarahsweets]

I do not think this is at all appropriate. If my therapist burst into tears and shared what yours did with you, I would begin searching for a new therapist immediately. If possible I would also cease further therapy.

[HarperF]

Originally Posted by sarahsweets

I do not think this is at all appropriate. If my therapist burst into tears and shared what yours did with you, I would begin searching for a new therapist immediately. If possible I would also cease further therapy.

Normally I would probably do the same. But it looks like we're having a personal element to the relationship. And that's the very reason for T to burst in tears because T is uncomfortable with it. T thinks we can make this thing 'go away', and interact like in old times. I don't have problem with this personal element, as I don't work well with blank screens. If anything I get anxious and deeply isolated.

This might be that we're not a good fit professionally...but then, I've reached 4 pretty different goals with T in less than 100 sittings. And T is by far the best fit for me that I ever worked with. Maybe it's a personal fit.

[SalingerEsme]

In this thread, you are very oriented toward taking care of your therapist, and empathizing with her, mentalizing.

This is backwards.

She might be on to something about the dynamic, but she is handling it unprofessionally herself.

There is zero pressure on you to be "professional", you are the patient here.

Part of her job is to offer a safe space consistently, and you seem to now feel the relationship is threatened . You shouldn't be in the position of needing to set boundaries and telling your own T to work this out in supervision, but here you are.

It seem like a good amount of countertransference is affecting her. I hope she steps up next session and repairs.

I wonder if she has trouble accepting care in her real life, or if the whole backdrop of 2020's stresses is getting to her?

You seem like a rewarding client, open-minded, self aware , and insightful .

[HarperF]

Thank you for the reply. I've got some update on this, as we've just had a session with T again.

Originally Posted by SalingerEsme

In this thread, you are very oriented toward taking care of your therapist, and empathizing with her, mentalizing.

This is backwards.

At this point I'm wondering if I'm unfit to psychotherapy as a whole, as I really do care about the other person, as a person. I see that T has some difficulties. Where this troubles me is that the problem is T and I became too close personally. I could really handle this closeness, but T seen this as practically indistinguishable from a friendship - hence unprofessional.

Originally Posted by SalingerEsme

She might be on to something about the dynamic, but she is handling it unprofessionally herself.

There is zero pressure on you to be "professional", you are the patient here.

I'm might be just splitting hairs here, but I certainly don't feel like a patient as I certainly have no clinical pathology. I'm there for self-knowledge, better adjustment, more efficient functioning.

Originally Posted by SalingerEsme

Part of her job is to offer a safe space consistently, and you seem to now feel the relationship is threatened . You shouldn't be in the position of needing to set boundaries and telling your own T to work this out in supervision, but here you are.

I felt safe throughout. I'm apprehensive about the future. It was T who thought the boundaries were too loose, so T asserted this, but did so in an overly vulnerable way. I guess the reason was that I did not find the boundaries being too loose in the first place, if anything, just ideal for myself, and being in an excellent empathic connection, T could sense this, and me first in the relationship, only to realize later, T made a mistake by neglecting T's own professional needs of keeping a certain distance, neutrality and anonimity.

What T did find uncomfortable and was vocal about is having our sessions reach over 30 minutes of assigned time and attributed it to T's compensation for making too much self-disclosure, therefore using my time on T's interest. (these boundary crossings in time did not mess up T's nor my daily schedule though)

However, I've found T's self-disclosures immensely helpful, so we've concluded that this was an insecurity on T's part. We are now keeping time.

I guess another boundary looseness that makes T uneasy is my friendly, direct conduct. I am not willing to give up on this, as I have to be congruent in the relationship in order to work on myself. T reciprocated this. We could really connect as two persons. This might be fine with person-centered therapists (my orientation) but unprofessional by T's standards.

Originally Posted by SalingerEsme

It seem like a good amount of countertransference is affecting her. I hope she steps up next session and repairs.

I wonder if she has trouble accepting care in her real life, or if the whole backdrop of 2020's stresses is getting to her?

T disclosed this has only happened with me from all of T's clients.

Originally Posted by SalingerEsme

You seem like a rewarding client, open-minded, self aware , and insightful .

I wonder if I really am. It looks like my closeness and our personal fit is standing on the way of objectivity - T finds being opposite to being subjectivity. This dichotomy causes great anxiety in T.

Where my anxiety comes from at the moment, if we can't carry on counseling, will I lose the personal and the psychologist-psychologist dimension of my relationship with T? T is extremely conscientious and considers to be conservative. We're colleagues after all, and actively do the same sports. Post-termination meetings are inevitable.

I mentioned to T, I'm ready to consider termination, as I've gained so much from our sessions. T agreed, but for now we're checking how we're working out. After our previous sitting I felt a bit like we're committing violence to our natural relationship, so I'm leaning more towards termination.

It would hurt me though letting T go completely out of my life, as T was an important, personal ally when talking, as psychologist-to-psychologist, about professional issues. I guess that might been a gray area T didn't had cleared up, as T acted like a real person, someone who T is not comfortable with in the framework of therapeutic work in retrospect. What is hard at the moment is that it's clear that T can't handle this smoothly. I would be happy to make this a collaborative effort, but that really takes its toll on T, and I'm naturally concerned about our personal relationship. To add insult to injury, T has disclosed a couple of months ago, that T always had very bad experience with each of T's supervisors.

When things are as complicated as this, I think termination is probably the best option, as T's therapeutic framework with such elements is practically unmanageable.

[Fuzzybear]

Originally Posted by Amyjay

It does sound like there is a friendship that is interfering with the process of therapy. Your T shouldn't be disclosing much personal info to you and she shouldn't be bursting into tears in *your* therapy.
What is going on there? Something has gotten muddled.

I agree. Something has got mixed up here

[HarperF]

Rupture got resolved. T is emotionally over-involved on a couple of subjects that are current for me. We also have too many things in common to divert in a personal talk, we'll aim to eschew these topics. T got genuinely insecure about having T's issues showing up in a direct way in therapy. The rupture came from T's core issues were triggered by my current issues, and we've grown to have a closer, more personal relationship, where T's self-disclosures - while directed to be helpful for me - got T carried away, because it was helpful for T as well. During these times we were working more like two clients in a group therapy setting. We've talked these through. I feel this was a major breakthrough. I'm awesomely happy about the situation, and it actually helped me immensely to resolve my issue to see someone battling with it, almost the same way as me. We're in the ending phase now.

T is a very serious therapist, and our sittings were hardest to bear for T professionally as now. This was a place of immense growth for both of us. I'm going to miss our days in counseling, but I feel happy to think about our relationship having fulfilled its purposes.

Thinking about it retrospectively, I don't find it useful to conceptualize T's reaction as countertransference. It was real in that T was both an active participant in an ethical dilemma, was questioning T's own expertise, and T's problematic pathologies got triggered. T is now attending supervision. Both of us are happy with the current outcome, and the plans for the future.

[LonesomeTonight]

I'm glad the issues seem to be resolved and that your T is in supervision for it now. However, "T's problematic pathologies got triggered" sounds exactly like countertransference to me...