Couch 229 - Acetominphen and

A handshake means you meet as EQUALS.

"See? My hand is empty. Not trebuchet."

But isn't moo's point that his non-exploration of himself is not what your therapy is about? Yet it's constantly coming up for you, in effect making your therapy about him at times and not you or even your reactions to him.

It won't be a shock that I'm not keen on your therapist either. He is much too thin-skinned in his therapist role--just the getting angry when you get angry is a red flag for a therapist imo. It's a human reaction, sure, but almost every therapist I've seen has managed to suppress that reaction and focus on me.

Kit, everything I bolded is a reason to stay in therapy.

Thanks @@

For some reason I keep looking for a reason to end therapy. But even my case manager said she is afraid to discharge me because of my frequent suicidal thoughts. Shrug. I feel like I have a lot of coping skills. I am going to keep this appointment with Dr. K though. I need to discuss things with him that are not going on in my life, but going on with my sister, but is affecting me and how I feel in the world. If that makes any sense. I'm having a hard time reconciling things in my head.


Today I feel vulnerable and fragile. I think my boss (NY boss) was looking at my SH scars yesterday. Made me feel vulnerable. Wore long sleeves today and will wear long sleeves the rest of the week. I'm not sure where the fragile feeling is coming from. Maybe the stuff with my Mom. Feeling fragile because she isn't well. I don't know.


All things to discuss with T. Dr K.


Thanks for your support @@! Hugs. Kit

Hugs if wanted, SK.

LT, I would get really confused with your T's inconsistencies.

chihirochild, wow at your series of frustrating things. I hope stuff goes more smoothly.

Oh, this makes sense.

Kit, I agree with @@ that these are reasons to stay in therapy. You have a lot going on right now with your mom's health and your sister. I think talking about the feelings of vulnerability and fragility are important, too. It makes sense that they could be at least somewhat related to your mom.


Actually, that you keep feeling like you should end therapy is a good topic to discuss, too.

Yeah, you're right about that first part.

And I think he's too thin-skinned as well. He also will say how certain topics make him uncomfortable, but that it's OK to discuss them anyway. But I feel like I shouldn't *know* that they make him uncomfortable. That he should just deal with that himself (or in his own therapy/supervision, if he were getting that).

To me, if I have to worry about all his reactions to me, like if he's going to retaliate if I express anger, if he's going to tell me that he'll be uncomfortable, etc., then how is that much different from having a friend (or relative) that I also pay? It also makes me wonder if I'm sort of reenacting childhood stuff with my parents, where I wasn't supposed to express certain emotions, talk about certain things, etc.

Yet, he's also helpful in many ways, so I still keep going to him. But I do wonder if I need to start exploring other options (I didn't really want to change therapists in the middle of the pandemic, though I did research some at one point). I kind of want to see what it's like when I start seeing him in person again.

Isnt the hard part of a relationship negotiating around each others boundaries? My boundaries were so smashed down by my parents, i didnt even form real values. My values were like little weeds poking up thru the burnt out wildfire. Then smashed down again.

Anyway, ive started nurturing those little tufts.

@@ - have i told you lately that i love you? I just had some angel hair palmini noodles, and omg so good! We are definitely serving them at the wedding!

And I was just about to twit you about how your values clearly don’t forbid quadrigamy or whatever -gamy you’re up to.

Also I thought we were having strozzapreti at the wedding?

Agreed. This may not be quite what you mean, but honestly, it's been a sign of progress for me that I've spoken up about some of T's boundaries that I've been unhappy with. Because, say, 5 years ago (before I was seeing him), I'd have likely just accepted them without question and immediately backed down.


I assume you meant more about setting one's own boundaries. And I've definitely been doing that more with my parents, for example. Or being able to say to a friend, "Hey, this thing you said offended me" or something like that.

Again - you are focussing on him rather than you. And still trying to get around or change or go under, over, and around his boundaries. Most of the boundaries that I notice you talk about are about him and his comfort in touch, time, etc - why does your desire to touch get to trump his desire not to do so or not to stand and so on? I think he is an arrogant jerkwad -but I think even jerkwads get their boundaries particularly over touch - I think it might be more beneficial to explore your need to press on people's boundaries more than worrying about whatever his mental hangups are. Therapists have buckets of them.

I don't agree that a handshake means you are meeting as equals. I don't know why a client and the person they hired would not be equal regardless of a symbolic act of non-hostility-that seems more of a therapist inspired fiction than anything. They do think very highly of themselves with no evidence to support it, in my opinion. Of course, I refused to shake the woman's hand so there is that

Isn't exhankster the person who reports an iffy showering schedule? That might add gaminess.

(I think that is an intentional pun - peer pressure is real and scary)

Bravissima! I always knew you had it in you.

And welcome to the dark side.

No thats the AGENDA for the bachelorette party.

Not exactly. What i mean is, recognizing and respecting boundaries. "I feel hurt by what you said" is not defending your boundary, imo. It is trying to change someone elses behavior. Its not accepting that person as they are.

What i see is, your parents bully you, then you bully other people, like your t or friends or whoever. Thats EXACTLY what i did - that is how i related - by bullying. Somebody put me in my place - told me straight out, no i DONT have to do what you say. Yeah, it was humiliating, but it moved me from my mothers dream world a little closer to reality. I wasnt seeing that person as his own person - i was seeing him as a character in my play.

"Iffy" is probably too generous!

My dad used to say that his mother bathed him three times in his life: for his baptism (at birth), for his holy communion (age 7), and for his wedding (yeah age 30!). So you see where i got my humor from.

Was there even a boundary set around shaking hands? I thought it was just brought up and he couldn't remember whether they used to do it, not that he refused and LT was trying to get him to.

Regardless, it seems like dealing with his boundaries and her reaction to them is helping her set and maintain her own, so in the end it is herself that she's focusing on. And there's nothing wrong with having a reaction to his boundaries. What better place to explore those reactions than in therapy? Too bad he can't be more open to examining them with her.

What I see is a focus on getting him to change, not exploring why there is a feeling of X when someone has a boundary that is not welcome (assuming that exploring it is something one cares about). But it isn't my money getting handed to the guy to focus on him, so I don't really have dog in the fight.

I feel....unclean. I can hold strong against it - one momentary lapse

You could always share your bathwater with ex-hankster.

I shared bathwater in Japan - it was not a big deal. I would share if she had showered the day before

You are trying to get her to move from quadrigamy to quintigamy,

When my family went to Japan, when I was a teenager, I remember refusing to get into any of the communal hot baths because I would have to be nude in front of strangers and my mother. Heat-wise, supposedly we were in an area with naturally hot springs. Sounded nice but I'd prefer to be alone!