New T talking about her erotic counter-transference for another client

I recently relocated and am looking for a new therapist. It's been difficult, because there are not many therapists here to choose from who are accepting new clients and take my insurance. I met with a new therapist recently and I tried to go in with a pretty open mind, but there are some things that kind of bothered me from our last session. I don't know what to do because I am starting to feel desperate to find someone who is has experience, but I also don't want to ignore flags that make me uncomfortable. I don't know if I am just being overly critical.

First, she asked me when I realized I was gay. The whole thing felt uncomfortable and I felt like she had a hidden motive for asking me that. She asked me if I had ever been in a serious relationship and the truth is, I haven't, but I lied and said there was someone I was interested in who was interested in me because I felt embarrassed. She then asked if my ex-T (who I was in love with who basically led me on), was when I realized I was gay. It made me feel infantile, since being gay isn't something you just "realize" - it's a part of who I am, something I've always known deep down.

Later on in the session, after I told her about the things ex-T did, she brought up erotic transference/counter-transference and how it's important for therapists to keep themselves in check. She said it it sounded like ex-T wasn't self-aware enough to keep it under control. She told me about a client she had who was a narcissist and that she felt attracted to him and that he asked her to get drinks with him after his session one day. She told me she felt tempted to and almost did, but received consultation about it. It just made me feel uncomfortable that the therapist was sharing this with me about another client. While she was probably trying to humanize/normalize the feelings that can develop between therapist and client, I didn't feel like I needed that. I can't put my finger on it exactly, but I suppose I felt like I lost a little respect for her. I know that sounds bad, but I have never had a therapist share with me about their erotic transference for another client before. Are my feelings warranted? Would this make you guys uncomfortable? On a different note, I am not a big fan of the terms "transference" and "counter-transference" anyway but she's psychodynamic so I guess I probably have to get over that.

It shows bad judgment to actually consider that guy's offer and then it shows even more bad judgment to tell you about it. I think you're very justified in seeing this for the red flag that it is.

It would make me feel uncomfortable that they shared that. Especially as you didn't ask them for their experiences with counter transference.

Also the whole 'when did you realize you were gay' question would make me very irritated, she should know better.

I agree with this.

Why should you feel bad?

How was her comment 'therapeutic'? This was a completely inappropriate-slash-unethical comment to make.

This is something she ought to bring in Supervision (because it is discussing/exploring her crap) *not* disclose to a client?! Again, how is that therapeutic. Red flag alert.

Yeah, your therapist crossed the lines asking you about your sexual preference (why is that her business anyway), about your previous relationship to your therapist (not her business either) and then divulging her own personal life example where she was attracted to one of her own patients. You were right to lose respect for her. And frankly, why would you entrust her with your mental health treatment now?

My opinion is that you're better off going to a walk in counseling clinic being seen by graduate students instead of staying with a licensed therapist who has terrible boundaries.

I totally agreed with this.

I prefer to see the therapist as pure as the driven snow. And if not, then I prefer to pretend she's a late in life lesbian. For some reason, that's preferable to her being involved with men. But regardless, I would be weirded out if she told me what this therapist told you.

I don't know if I'd consider it bad judgement that she considered meeting the client...perhaps it was only for a few seconds or moments who knows....that is the human side of 'lure' of erotic counter transference I would think and why it can be so dangerous on both sides...Perhaps it was bad judgement to have shared this part with you yes, but but she sought consultation when she felt those strong desires (we can't control feelings) but then didn't choose to (but we can control what we do with those feelings) so made the right judgement call in the end imo.

I agree. Based on what she told me, in the end, it doesn’t seem like she technically did anything unethical. I think she was comparing herself to ex T by showing me what ex-T “should have” done. That’s partly why I don’t know if my uncomfy feelings are valid. I guess it maybe just felt way too personal for her to disclose that attraction to me, especially since she’s married/has a family.

Yes. I was going to post what Smileygal posted already. Fully in agreement with that post.

What I'm trying to add to it is just that deep therapy is going to be very personal and will involve attachment and lots of trust. It's one reason why I chose not to enter it again. I can't and won't put in effort for managing a personal attachment in therapy. If you feel up to it, feel free to, if not, then that's okay too. My point is, make an informed decision on whether you are going to be able to trust enough and put in the effort like that. I personally chose alternative routes, such as, a LOT of psychoeducation on my own, a LOT of journalling, reflection, talking in support groups, talking with other mental health workers (not therapists), talking to some people one on one with similar issues, carefully - sometimes chaotically - finding support in family as well. Frankly I find those one on one talks only worked if someone was either having VERY similar issues to mine, OR very emotionally intelligent, in a good mood to be able to take on the talk with me, generally caring about people and keeping good boundaries scheduling talks not too frequently and not too long each time.

One more comment. Your feelings are by definition valid. The question is, what will you do with the feelings, as far as interpretation, taking a perspective for them, and whether you make decisions & act on them and how. So you can accept these feelings and then you can see where they come from if you think that would be insightful for you, or you can simplify and skip that part and instead just discuss with the therapist, that you don't want too much disclosure from them, or if they want to illustrate things with examples, then use less personal ones. Etc etc, these are just two possible options

I hope some of that input helped.

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EDIT: I wanted to add more.

The questions about your being gay, it sounded like, she doesn't know a whole lot about gay people. It sounds like most people who don't know a whole lot. Not malicious or manipulative or any hidden motives, just that. I have a gay family member. But a lot of people in my country are not at all educated on the topic. I imagine not everyone in the USA is either.

If it is important to you that the therapist understands this topic well, then you do need to find someone else.

My family member btw only realised i.e admitted it to himself when he was already in his twenties - due to religion issues. He obviously knew something was up before it too but he tried to deny it hard and even tried to date a girl and so on. So I wouldn't get too hung up on word usage. But if the topic is sensitive then it's understandable you would be bothered and uncomfortable. This is why I said maybe find another therapist if this is going to be an important/often mentioned topic in therapy.

I agree with the post too where it's mentioned discussions about countertransference really belong to supervisory sessions. Sounds like she got too enthusiastic about giving you education about how the therapy process works

You asked if it would make anyone else uncomfortable. As far as myself, it depends on how it was delivered - if there was lots of details indulged then she still needs to work on some of her boundaries and I'd let her know I'm not comfortable and not okay with her disclosing. If details were not indulged at length, then I'd be comfortable okay. As in, I'd probably not be very interested at all in that part or I'd try to focus on the education she's trying to give to me about it.

Also, countertransference is basically a fancy term for, the therapist is human too and is going to have various feelings and reactions about you. I'm not really worried about what we call it, but this phenomenon does exist and it does have an important role and it has to be managed and all that if the therapy goes deep enough.

I think if the previous relationship to previous therapist was brought up, it's okay to talk about it. It's okay to discuss to know what the client needs after previous experiences with other therapists. It's okay to not be experienced with gay issues, but then if that's important, again, the therapist will not be the right choice for OP. Personal life example....yes a mistake there especially if going into detail at length. Why lose respect for someone making a mistake. But I don't know the exact circumstances, I wasn't there. Not questioning OP's feelings. If that means a serious loss of trust then by any means another therapist will be needed or another option altogether other than deep personal therapy.

I would say though, graduate students are no better than licensed therapists. Either one can have terrible boundaries really. It depends on what one needs really. I did find some of the less experienced psychologists the best for me emotionally, but one less experienced one did damage. And then some very experienced ones were helpful, and some were not.

I appreciate all the feedback guys. And I’m still torn. Maybe it’s just a personal preference, but I don’t think we’re a good match which makes me sad. Maybe I’m just sensitive at the thought of my therapist having her own issues, given my history. It seems like she did go into a bit of detail about the attraction and I can’t help but wonder if she had any part in it in leading the guy on, so I guess I’m just left with more questions. I think my experience with her just solidified my icked out feelings towards the Freudian, psychoanlytic approach. I much prefer the CBT/DBT approach with some attachment theory mixed in there too. I guess I’m back to the drawing board :/

This all sounds very, very red and flaggy to me.

I don’t see this going anywhere good and I’m going to try very hard to express myself without recourse to words like “moron” or “asshole” to describe this therapist.

“When did you realize you were gay?” is, as you so aptly noted, not a thing that culturally competent mental health professionals ask in AD 2022. I just want to validate your observation. Gay people don’t need this kind of excremental claptrap.

The story about her being attracted to her narcissistic client is horrifying. Not that she felt that way but that she shared it with you.

Like what else is there to say? Trying very hard not to say moron here. Let’s go with unskilled. Lacking in filter. A few tentacles shy of a full kraken.

With virtual therapy now so commonplace, could you widen your pool of potential candidates? In my experience, a bad therapist is many orders of magnitude worse than no therapist.

Good luck ❤️

Would she ask a heterosexual person “when did you realize you are heterosexual”

What a dumb question.

Telling you her stories are a bit much too. Strange person. She maybe means well but it doesn’t sound right to me

The most important aspect is that you feel uncomfortable. This will impact on your relationship with her and might render the relationship useless to you - especially if you don't feel comfortable enough to raise the issues with her.

Her speaking about her erotic counter transference would creep me out big time. As others have pointed out, it breaks all kinds of boundaries. It would probably be a deal breaker for me especially if it was newly established therapy.

Personally, her question about when you realised you are gay wouldn't bother me. I would hear it as clumsy and unaware, but I wouldn't take it to heart. It's quite old school thinking and it's doesn't match your experience but sometimes that kind of mismatch can be useful - it provides you with a chance to describe your experience and assert your understanding of self. Although of course you would be doing this in opposition rather than understanding, but again I don't mind that for myself. I am a lesbian if that makes any difference.

To me it implies that being gay is somehow a choice or a big slap in the face kind of realization. Many many gay people will tell you they have known for years they were different and attracted to the same sex and many have said they knew as young children. Such an insensitive out of touch question!
“Sarah when did you first realize you’d liked the color purple”?
Equally as dumb as that.

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It’s the sort of thing I might have found charming from a well-meaning person of a certain age a few years ago when people still went to dinner parties and stuff. (I’m a gen x lesbian… probably lots of ppl would call me a “person of a certain age”)

I think similar questions (eg “what was it like when you came out? had you been out to yourself for a long time before that?”) are reasonable enough. I guess. But more general questions about how you grew up, your relationship with your parents, whether you’re currently married/dating/whatever are much more useful and show more skill and subtlety and less assumption on the part of the therapist.

I agree that a therapist’s clumsiness can provide a useful moment for explanation. But IMHO this is too clumsy and too outdated about something too fundamental. Therapy can be so exhausting and so fraught even with a great therapist. When it’s evident in the first session that the therapist is far from great, why even bother?

This is fascinating because I am even younger (elderly Millennial) and I don't think I would find that question odd, although the context and tone would be important. I grew up in a pretty repressive environment, though, and didn't re-acknowledge my queerness until high school. (Preschool me knew things that Child me was forced to forget!) I'm rapidly becoming a gay dinosaur, though, so I have no point to argue here. I just think it's an interesting discussion.

Discussing other clients a massive breech of confidentiality and boundaries, you just don't do it. Utterly disgraceful on her part, because it was hardly a "slip of the tongue" or accident., and what if you spoke about you to other clients?

Considering the client's proposition isn't particularly an issue, because exploring fantasy can be helpful in the process... and she took it to supervision.

I think you need to find someone new, sorry.

The question about when did you realize you were gay is clumsy, but it doesn't seem malicious. I have had conversations with by own kids where they talked about that process of figuring things out as they aged, so it was probably more approached clumsily than anything. BUT, that could be an issue you have to decide: do you need a more aware and educated individual there.

I sort of wonder about the counter transference story: was it even a real incident? It sounds rather generic. I don't think she breached any confidentiality issues particularly, and I suppose she was trying to normalize erotic transference. But again, sort of clumsy.

Bottom line: If you are feeling uncomfortable or uneasy about this therapist, then perhaps looking for a better option in the meantime might be a good idea.