Couch 246: Choose Change

ArtieTheSequal · Jan 05, 2024 at 06:44 PM

Home from a very soul-full session with L this afternoon. She was definitely on her A-game today!

Lemoncake · 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonesomeTonight

You'd think I'd have learned my lesson not to bring up certain things at the end of a session, particularly on a Friday. But apparently not...

I really don't see how it's so weird that I wish Dr. T would be open to my sending a brief email letting him know how H's surgery goes Tuesday. I mean, he clarified that he's open in the sense that I'm allowed to email and haven't emailed him much at all lately (it's been weeks, probably months, not counting a scheduling thing, which he doesn't count either). But he implied that it was inappropriate that I wanted that from a therapist (without using that word). Even though he acknowledged we've been talking about it for weeks and he knows I'm stressed about it (it's a hernia surgery, so not like open heart surgery or something).

But I guess that's too friend-like. Even though he's been sharing personal stuff/disclosing all over the place lately and has seemed more relaxed about stuff in general. Sigh.

Doorknob confessions make perfect sense. Freeing in a way because you won't have face your therapist until the next session.

Updating a friend is perfectly understandable.

Dr T should be aware that he is blurring the boundaries with his disclosures. That should be brought up.

After also reading your Dear T post- you did nothing wrong.he will never be the T you want him to be. Look at what he is showing you now.

Lemoncake · Jan 05, 2024 at 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArtieTheSequal

Home from a very soul-full session with L this afternoon. She was definitely on her A-game today!

Glad you had a good session Art.

Lemoncake · Jan 05, 2024 at 06:58 PM

I've been in a phase of watching Cash Jordan videos on Youtube about New York.

It makes me want to not visit.

Don't mind the rats, just the crazy rents. $5165 a month for a studio or net $4304 with free months.

LonesomeTonight · Jan 05, 2024 at 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lemoncake

Doorknob confessions make perfect sense. Freeing in a way because you won't have face your therapist until the next session.

Updating a friend is perfectly understandable.

Dr T should be aware that he is blurring the boundaries with his disclosures. That should be brought up.

After also reading your Dear T post- you did nothing wrong.he will never be the T you want him to be. Look at what he is showing you now.

Thanks, Lemon. It wasn't quite doorknob, like 10 minutes before, but still. I think he's trying to make it clear he isn't a friend. But yes, the disclosures are confusing. I suppose I need to bring those up.

I do feel he's really helped me lately. He may not be the T I want him to be, but I feel he's often the T I need, if that makes sense. Maybe it's better in the long run that he does have certain boundaries? I don't know.

I did end up emailing him. I started with the irony that I was emailing him about wanting to email. But I tried to make it clear what I was feeling, including conflicting thoughts--and how the shame was winning.

LonesomeTonight · Jan 05, 2024 at 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArtieTheSequal

Home from a very soul-full session with L this afternoon. She was definitely on her A-game today!

Glad it went well, Artie!

stopdog · Jan 05, 2024 at 08:37 PM

I disagree that the therapist bringing some info about his life is blurring boundaries. First - a lot of people seem to want to know about the therapist (granted - I don't know why) and LT has asked for such disclosure - and it is often couched in ways to trust or feel more secure in therapy. To me that is very different than wanting to tell the therapist how some third person is after surgery. To me it would be different if the client was having surgery - then updating the therapist might make sense. But what would be the point of writing the therapist and saying something like "my husband's surgery was fine" = particularly if one has another appointment where it could be talked about in person. To me that is close family friend/family info. Why not tell a friend instead of the therapist?

unaluna · Jan 05, 2024 at 08:55 PM

SD brings up an interesting point. There is no point in writing an everythings fine email. If you are worried, you should be getting support, a family member accompanying you to the hospital. If things go very badly, then an emergency phone call to t would surely be in order.

It's not like you can have 2 emails in your draft folder, depending which way it goes! Thats just cold! That will end up on Court TV!

LonesomeTonight · Jan 05, 2024 at 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stopdog

I disagree that the therapist bringing some info about his life is blurring boundaries. First - a lot of people seem to want to know about the therapist (granted - I don't know why) and LT has asked for such disclosure - and it is often couched in ways to trust or feel more secure in therapy. To me that is very different than wanting to tell the therapist how some third person is after surgery. To me it would be different if the client was having surgery - then updating the therapist might make sense. But what would be the point of writing the therapist and saying something like "my husband's surgery was fine" = particularly if one has another appointment where it could be talked about in person. To me that is close family friend/family info. Why not tell a friend instead of the therapist?

He did say it would make sense if it was my surgery--so I think his headspace and view on this is similar to yours.

For me, it wouldn't be telling therapist instead of a friend, but both.

I do get what you're saying. And I'm not sure what's behind this for me. But I think it's something that I need to address in therapy. Like to figure out what's behind it, why it matters, etc. I wish he'd go in that direction, like, 'Let's examine what's going on here--why does this matter to you? What's it about?" Instead of seeming to shut down and/or suggest it's not appropriate.

LonesomeTonight · Jan 05, 2024 at 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by unaluna

SD brings up an interesting point. There is no point in writing an everythings fine email. If you are worried, you should be getting support, a family member accompanying you to the hospital. If things go very badly, then an emergency phone call to t would surely be in order.

It's not like you can have 2 emails in your draft folder, depending which way it goes! Thats just cold! That will end up on Court TV!

Earlier in session, Dr. T joked about my digging a grave in the backyard to prepare. Which is where the Addams family came in. (And I brought up Rear Window, which he said he'd only seen part of.)

And yeah, he said "no news is good news." And he said if things go badly, then I can send an emergency text.

I don't know why this matters to me, and that's what I want to examine. I'm pretty sure it's not just about him, or even primarily about him.

stopdog · Jan 05, 2024 at 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonesomeTonight

He did say it would make sense if it was my surgery--so I think his headspace and view on this is similar to yours.

For me, it wouldn't be telling therapist instead of a friend, but both.

I do get what you're saying. And I'm not sure what's behind this for me. But I think it's something that I need to address in therapy. Like to figure out what's behind it, why it matters, etc. I wish he'd go in that direction, like, 'Let's examine what's going on here--why does this matter to you? What's it about?" Instead of seeming to shut down and/or suggest it's not appropriate.

Instead of waiting for him to guess correctly or think in the way you want him to do - why not couch it in those terms when you bring it up?
"I want to examine why I want to do X"

comrademoomoo · Jan 06, 2024 at 04:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stopdog

Instead of waiting for him to guess correctly or think in the way you want him to do - why not couch it in those terms when you bring it up?
"I want to examine why I want to do X"

I agree that explicitly stating things (assuming that you are aware of what you need or want) is most useful. However, to be fair, examining things in this way is a basic aspect of therapy and he really shouldn't need for this to be highlighted to him. If he does need this to be clarified, I would not have any faith that he is skilled enough to do this kind of exploration. He is too caught in the subject of LT's request/need/want to be able to intelligently work with her process (or indeed to be sufficiently aware of his own process in order to keep the focus on LT, but that's a well beaten drum by us all at this point).

unaluna · Jan 06, 2024 at 08:05 AM

Yeah it sounds like they ALMOST get there, but not quite. It's hard to not be jokey (the client). If the t is being jokey, thats very bad. This sounds like the recurring conversation my t and i would have every time he left town and i would invite him to stop by my place on his way back from the airport (which sounds appalling to me now!).

Yeah, its not about him. It's about trying to be in control of those ambiguously seductive scenarios we were put in growing up.

atisketatasket · Jan 06, 2024 at 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by comrademoomoo

I agree that explicitly stating things (assuming that you are aware of what you need or want) is most useful. However, to be fair, examining things in this way is a basic aspect of therapy and he really shouldn't need for this to be highlighted to him. If he does need this to be clarified, I would not have any faith that he is skilled enough to do this kind of exploration. He is too caught in the subject of LT's request/need/want to be able to intelligently work with her process (or indeed to be sufficiently aware of his own process in order to keep the focus on LT, but that's a well beaten drum by us all at this point).

But it’s not a basic aspect of every therapy. It’s a basic aspect of the kind of therapy LT desires and that this guy doesn’t do, and has been pretty clear that he doesn’t do.

Another well-beaten drum on this topic: why keep trying to change someone who isn’t going to change? If I wanted medicine and I went to Dr. SD, who refused to give me any medications because Western medicine sucks, why wouldn’t I then go to Dr. Ex-Hankster, a firm believer in medication and bonus leeches, instead?

LonesomeTonight · Jan 06, 2024 at 12:37 PM

I'm sorry I mentioned it.

comrademoomoo · Jan 06, 2024 at 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonesomeTonight

I'm sorry I mentioned it.

Oh gosh sorry LT, did I sound harsh when I referred to a well beaten drum? That was not my intention at all. I meant that it's probably not useful for me to say it since many people have said it before and it might feel like a pile-on to you. I did not mean that you shouldn't have mentioned it. Your experiences of it are important to discuss.

unaluna · Jan 06, 2024 at 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonesomeTonight

I'm sorry I mentioned it.

Dont say that

T and i returned to the subject many times before we both got it right. But its like what yogi berra said about therory and practice: in theory, theyre the same; in practice, theyre not. Wanting him to ask you what you really mean is getting stuck in theory.

I admitted to last t that i wanted prev t-pdoc to come to family dinners to defend and protect me, to prove my worth. You blaming ex-mc for all his wrongdoings is denial of these feelings, for both him and t. Feelings are not facts. These guys are supposed to be SAFE, thats the point. That may be why it feels like t withdraws - he is showing you safety. But you must still state what you feel.

comrademoomoo · Jan 06, 2024 at 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by atisketatasket

But it’s not a basic aspect of every therapy. It’s a basic aspect of the kind of therapy LT desires and that this guy doesn’t do, and has been pretty clear that he doesn’t do.

Another well-beaten drum on this topic: why keep trying to change someone who isn’t going to change? If I wanted medicine and I went to Dr. SD, who refused to give me any medications because Western medicine sucks, why wouldn’t I then go to Dr. Ex-Hankster, a firm believer in medication and bonus leeches, instead?

Yes, that's true that it isn't a feature of all therapy and I did wonder about that as I typed it. I suppose I discount therapies which don't focus on process or depth work. Also, I imagine part of the confusion for LT is that there are some instances where some kind of process work happens and deeper exploration takes place, it's not like it's just CBT counselling for example. Given your attachment needs LT, it's not surprising that it would be hard for you to switch to a Dr Una, even if you liked the look of her leeches. Wait, I think I am confusing my metaphors. I thought it was about drums...

stopdog · Jan 06, 2024 at 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by atisketatasket

But it’s not a basic aspect of every therapy. It’s a basic aspect of the kind of therapy LT desires and that this guy doesn’t do, and has been pretty clear that he doesn’t do.

Another well-beaten drum on this topic: why keep trying to change someone who isn’t going to change? If I wanted medicine and I went to Dr. SD, who refused to give me any medications because Western medicine sucks, why wouldn’t I then go to Dr. Ex-Hankster, a firm believer in medication and bonus leeches, instead?

And cupping - don't forget the cupping

unaluna · 03:44 PM

My leeches are fantastic - and they're REAL!

Eta - i think i got that backwards, but its funny this way, about leeches, right?

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
If people can't choose or change their personality...	Shadix	Relationships & Communication	56	Jan 02, 2017 03:05 AM
Couch 91 - Forget the small change	unaluna	Psychotherapy	997	Apr 08, 2015 08:22 PM

Menu

My Support Forums - Mental Health Support Groups

Get emotional support and friendship from others like you!

Couch 246: Choose Change

My Support Forums

ArtieTheSequal Writing my way through... Member Since Feb 2020 Location: In the desert Posts: 7,375 (SuperPoster!) 4 5,832 hugs given	Jan 05, 2024 at 06:44 PM #801 Home from a very soul-full session with L this afternoon. She was definitely on her A-game today!

Lemoncake Roses are falling. Member Since May 2017 Location: Seattle. Posts: 9,797 (SuperPoster!) 7 10.3k hugs given	Jan 05, 2024 at 06:58 PM #804 I've been in a phase of watching Cash Jordan videos on Youtube about New York. It makes me want to not visit. Don't mind the rats, just the crazy rents. $5165 a month for a studio or net $4304 with free months. __________________

LonesomeTonight Always in This Twilight Member Since Feb 2015 Location: US Posts: 20,912 (SuperPoster!) 9 75.2k hugs given	Jan 06, 2024 at 12:37 PM #815 I'm sorry I mentioned it.

unaluna Elder Harridan x-hankster Member Since Jun 2011 Location: Milan/Michigan Posts: 40,137 (SuperPoster!) 13 67k hugs given	Jan 06, 2024 at 02:57 PM #820 My leeches are fantastic - and they're REAL! Eta - i think i got that backwards, but its funny this way, about leeches, right? Last edited by unaluna; Jan 06, 2024 at 03:44 PM..