He called

The therapist from a few weeks ago...who I just mailed an ethics complaint about...well, he just called me. He called my work phone and I don't have caller ID so I just picked it up, not realizing. I couldn't really talk since I was at work.

He wanted to set up an appointment. I said okay. I'm set up for Friday at 5:30 PM.

Ok...uhm...now what. On one hand, I really really really really REALLY need to get some help like NOW, not two weeks from now (when I have an appointment with someone else).

But on the other hand...do I really want to go back there?

I already mailed that complaint form. Maybe I can call the ethics people and say "uh, nevermind" and tell them to just throw it away. If he finds out I was going to report him, that won't be good.

I don't know what to do. Maybe I just overreacted maybe he didn't mean things the way I took it. Maybe I'm just hyper sensitive to that kind of thing. I don't know what to think.

He's the only PhD for 50 miles. All the other therapists I've been calling barely have 2 years of experience. He does group therapy. Nobody else I've called yet does. He works in the same building as the psychiatrist who I might end up seeing in May if she ever gets an opening. So I think they work together.

Ok - do I go back? Do I say anything about that last session? I did send him an email like 3 days after. He didn't say anything about it on the phone, and he hasn't replied to the email.

And why would he suddenly call back today - almost 2 weeks after?

He might not email clients. Some don't.

I personally think... That you owe it to him to say that you complained about his conduct and so he can expect an inquiry. It is up to him if he wants to see you under those circumstances. If I was a therapist I'd want to know about that BEFORE meeting with a client.

I mean now when people check him out they will see that he has had a complaint filed against him. That can have a significant impact on a persons career. If I were him I'd want to know.

I can't believe you agreed to have an appointment to see him... Think he knows about your complaint? Did he sound jolly on the phone?

The complaint isn't official yet, I mailed the form yesterday but it's still in the mail. I actually just contacted the lady at the state and she said she will "hold" my form if/when she gets it. Nothing has been done yet.

Razzleberry, I'm really worried by all this. Why has he suddenly contacted you after all this time? And I personally don't think you should go back to him no matter how desperate you are for help...he creeped you out bad yeah? And it sounded to me like his behaviour was inappropriate and other women shouldn't be subjected to the same thing. It's not like you sent off that complaint in the heat of the moment...you took the time first to ask for peoples opinions here. Why the sudden change of heart? Can you explain coz I GENUINELY am worried about you here?

razz you simply need to decide what his behaviour was.. in your own mind.

you dont owe him anything really... if you feel the complaint is warranted, then you don't owe him an explanation. If you dont feel it's warranted, then you would need to intercept it.

to complain or not has to be based on your feelings... can you ask this lady at the ethics board as to whther they have someone who can help you decide? Is there a local womens center where you can have a quick chat with one of the workers about it? They know the system and what is apropriate. What about talking to your GP? Talk to someone who can advise you

i just hope you dont choose to see him simply because of the wait times... i found the posts about the things he said too triggering for me, but what i did see sounded horrid... for a first appt and all.

if you see him, will you tell him how bad it was for you?

im a little worried about you... think bigger picture razz, not simply today. i feel scared thinking of you going through that again.

be safe

Are you going to see him because you're desperate? I think it will just make you feel worse. I would talk to him on the phone, but not in person. You're at his mercy in person.

Hmmm. I'm glad you put the complaint on hold for the time being.

Did you cancel your appointments with this T, and not have any on the books, when he called you "out of the blue?"
Did you say you were not coming back (before he called and asked you to come in?)

I understand you need therapy, however if you feel he is unethical enough for you to have filed a complaint, why go back?

If you canceled all appointments; made a statement even to his voice mail, email, or secretary that you weren't returning, then his contacting you was unethical, btw.

If you really think you overreacted, then by all means go back and discuss this with him. Give him a chance to explain, and also to gird up his boundaries so that he doesn't breach them again, in your mind/eyes. You don't have to sit the whole time if he becomes upset and beligerent etc, but can get up and leave. I would hope that it's a big misunderstanding, and that you can progress in your therapy.

However, if you go back, and don't discuss this, and don't find any issues with this therapy session, and continue with the complaint, that probably won't let you feel good about it.

TC

I'm having difficulty understanding...

Firstly (as you know, but as others sometimes seem to forget) feelings can be a little different from realilty. Just because you FELT creeped out doesn't mean that he did anything OBJECTIVELY creepy. Though if you feel creeped out your response can of course be legitimated by both aspects of the present that triggered aspects of the PAST. That being said, it is important (for this person in the present right now with a career) that you don't lump him in with past people who were objectively creepy.

Secondly (as I said already) you presented saying that something you wanted to work on was your sexual behaviour. It is thus HIGHLY APPROPRIATE in fact NECESSARY that for him to do an assessment of your symptoms that he ask you questions about your sexual behaviour.

Textbooks on psychiatry tell training psychiatrists that it IS appropriate to ask highly specific questions about sexual behaviour EVEN WHEN THE PRESENTING SYMPTOM ISN'T TO DO WITH SEX. According to the guidelines on assessment HE WOULD HAVE BEEN NEGLIGENT IF HE DIDN'T ASK YOU HIGHLY DETAILED QUESTIONS ABOUT YOUR SEXUAL BEHAVIOUR.

In the face of this you sent off a complaint anyway. You didn't ask him (proactively) why he felt the need to ask those questions. You didn't say (proactively) that you felt immensely uncomfortable talking about sex (except for what you had volountarily disclosed already). You didn't tell HIM (proactively) that you were worried about whether his questions were appropriate or not. Instead you... Answered them? And then went to lay an official complaint about his misconduct even when a check online or in a textbook would show you whether his questions were inappropriate or not.

You... Simply didn't turn up? To the next scheduled session. Did you cancel? Did you pay the fee for a no show (which is standard?)

I do understand that the things that make it difficult for a person to receive help can be precisely the things that a person needs help with / therapy for. I guess it just sounds to me that given the way events unfolded it would be a lot safer all around for you to work with a female therapist with a busy office.

I see both sides to this.

1) If you went in saying you had sexual issues, I could see why he would address questions in that direction. When I revealed about my SI to my T, she had a line of questions which felt VERY uncomfortable, but she had to ask to get a feel for what was going on with me. It pissed me off and I felt terrible, but I realized that it became an issue when the SI came up.

2) Some T's use the first couple of sessions to basically fire questions at clients to get a feel for what they may have to deal with. I think that method sucks, but some have very little tact in getting "facts." (especially CBT therapists who don't rely as heavily on relationship transferances,etc)

3) Aren't complaints anonymous? Personally, I don't think you should have filed a complaint without talking with the T first. In this case, he may not have actually done anything wrong because you presented with "sexual issues." If you had talked with him a second time, you could probably have figured out if (1) he was wrong or (2) he was doing his job (in a tactless way).

4) I do hear your fear over his questions. Did any of his other behaviors seem inappropiate? Physical closeness to you, physical contact, other signs that maybe you picked up on.

I would go back with a list and make sure you address your concern. I would NOT tell him you filed a complaint. That is a MAJOR thing and no doubt he will terminate and take action to defend himself....which if he is a good T has already documented what he said to you in session.

You always have the right to leave, if you don't like his responses about why he asked those questions.

Ok...some clarification.

My last sesion with him - when he asked the weird stuff - was March 26th.

I was supposed to have an appointment with him on Monday the 31st. My husband was actually working that night anyway, so I just called to cancel. I just left a voicemail. I called on Sunday so technically 24 hours ahead.

I have not paid him anything yet. He was going to send me a bill for the copays. He does have my insurance info.

I never officially told him that I didn't want to see him again.

I did send him an email, last week, asking him why he got so detailed in some of the questions.

The complaint is not official yet. I have to sign a paper form to give the state the right to access my records. At this point...it's somewhere in the postal service. I called the lady at the state and she is going to put it on hold. The therapist has not been contacted about the complaint yet.

The only reason I said "okay" to the appointment when he called me today was that I just couldn't get the guts up to tell him what I really wanted to tell him....plus, I was at work, and had no privacy. I just said "okay, that's fine". I didn't say much. He asked me how I was doing and I hung up the phone.

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alexandra_k said:
I'm having difficulty understanding...

Just because you FELT creeped out doesn't mean that he did anything OBJECTIVELY creepy.

According to the guidelines on assessment HE WOULD HAVE BEEN NEGLIGENT IF HE DIDN'T ASK YOU HIGHLY DETAILED QUESTIONS ABOUT YOUR SEXUAL BEHAVIOUR.

You didn't ask him (proactively) why he felt the need to ask those questions. You didn't say (proactively) that you felt immensely uncomfortable talking about sex (except for what you had volountarily disclosed already). You didn't tell HIM (proactively) that you were worried about whether his questions were appropriate or not. Instead you... Answered them? And then went to lay an official complaint about his misconduct even when a check online or in a textbook would show you whether his questions were inappropriate or not.


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Ok, for one thing, I came here and I did go online trying to ask questions as to whether or not this was inappropriate. Because I wasn't sure. He's licensed, why would he do that. I didn't just file the complaint the moment I left the office (although I did start balling uncontrollably so bad that I couldn't see while I was driving because of so many tears. And I binged on the way home. Does that mean anything to you?? Oh, and I'm afraid to go to my dentist now because he's in the same building as that therapist. but I guess I'm just making this all up....right...??)

I do understand why he asked some of the more general (but yes slightly specific) questions. To see how much danger I was in, who was in control, that kind of thing. I totally understand those questions, and yes I answered all that and I was honest. I don't get...why he just kept asking. Stuff that doesn't make sense why it would even matter for therapy purposes.

No I didn't answer all of his questions. I stared at the floor, tried to ignore them, maybe said "yes'" or "no" a few times, but yes at one point I said "I don't really want to tell you that" but I'm not sure he heard me.

Look, I have a really hard time speaking up for myself. Ok. Yet another "issue". Online, I can type like crazy. In person, I just can't talk. I'm quiet/shy/whatever the hell you want to call it. Social phobia maybe. I even get that way on the phone sometimes. One reason why it's been so hard to get appointments. I just freeze up when they get to the "and why are we seeing you" question. Sometimes I just hang up the phone. It's stupid. I hate it. But that's me.

Nevermind. Ok. I'm just stupid.

(((((((((((Razzleberry))))))))))))))))))

No, you are not stupid. You reacted the way I would have, the same way that many people would.

Ideally, what would you like to happen now with him? Do you *really* want to go this appt with him, or do you want to cut ties and move on?

Be good to yourself.

(((Razz)))

I'd have felt the same way, I'm sure.

You don't ever have to see a therapist that creeps you out...period.

Do what you want, I believe your feelings and your experienced mind told you what you needed to know.

Take care,
nightbird

((Razz)),
I think the fact that you waited several days, looked for standards online, and presented the issue here on PC for feedback demonstrates that you are not making rash decisions. I think in the earlier post, Alex made a very good argument for why he may have asked SOME of the questions he asked. I also think Alex makes a good point of highlighting that what we FEEL and how we individually INTERPRET a situation both during and after an exchange may be totally different than what the other party felt, interpreted or experienced during the exchange.

Razz, I think you are being open-minded and that you are taking the potential impact of your complaint seriously. If at this point you are unsure, you did the adult thing to do. You called the Ethnics board, and stated that you were having some second thoughts about your complaint and asked the staff member to hold your complaint for the time being. In my opinion you have acted appropriately.

As for going back to him, that is totally up to you. From your posts here you seem to need some closure to this concern. Maybe it would be good for you to go. Telling him how uncomfortable you felt during your appointment and the fact that after reviewing the professional standards YOU ARE STILL REALLY UNCOMFORTABLE with his actions. If you think hearing his response and his rationale will help you close this issue, I say do it. If hearing what he has to say is not important to you, cancel and move on to your new therapist.

Good luck. I think you are handling this difficult situation appropriately.

Razz, I think whatever triggered you in session to eventually file this complaint is a great place to start when you see him next.

He may handle all of this just fine and you may end up having a really good relationship out of it.

I would look at it this way first. Try and talk to him. He might surprise you.

i dunno.. i think i would have answered even though it felt wrong. To me he would have been an authority figure and i would have done as asked or told. That is the power dynamic anyway, books explain that.. it's why sexual contact is wrong, because the T has more power... right?

A little update.

I cancelled Friday's appointment with him. It was more than 24 hours in advance when I cancelled so I should be okay.

I mailed him a check for the copays for the first two visits. I included a short note saying that I will be looking for another therapist, and that basically I just wasn't comfortable with him.

I do feel better now that it's done. I don't know why it bothered me so much to begin with. But it's over.

I have an appointment Wednesday with the new therapist (LSCW) and then I have one next week with a Psych Nurse Practitioner who does both meds and therapy - I told her it would just be meds but if I do like her then maybe we have something to fall back on if the LCSW therapist just doesn't "click". He seemed nice and all at our first appoitnment, but, well...I just have a hard time opening up sometimes. We'll see.

Razz,
It sounds like you found a solution that worked for you. Glad you were able to bring some closure for yourself and move on. I hope your next experience goes a lot better.