[hangingon]

I was in session today and T wanted to work with me on Cognitive behavior stuff. Well, we were working on some irrational thoughts or behaviors and ways to improve them.

Anyways, something has bothered me for a long time so since we were on the issue, I decided to bring it up, it took quite some nerve to actually speak the words. I said, I know its your job to help me see where my thinking is off but sometimes I feel like I am always being corrected.

She said I am just trying to make you see where your thinking is coming from and trying to get you to change it, its not too make you feel that way.
I said thats just it, I never really allow myself to feel and when I do, there is always some response, like where do you think that is coming from ect. She said well you need to let me know when that is happening in therapy, and how its making you feel.

I said it makes me not want to tell you things because every time I do, its as if I am doing something wrong and when you try to get me to correct it, it makes shut down. Like whats the purpose of me telling you.

I said I know I have alot of stupid thoughts, I know I have alot to change.

The whole point it that I don't allow myself to feel and I finally get the nerve to tell her and she does exactly what I am trying to tell her I don't want to happen.

I so wanted to say, can you just let me feel here, no correction right now just let me feel and tell you how I feel without making me feel like I am doing something wrong.

The session ended right around that time and it was so awkward, I left there feeling like total crap, like she doesn't really care, so whats the point.

I won't see her next week because I will be away on vacation which is the first time in a whole year that I will not have had T during the week. I am sort of looking forward to this, maybe I need a break. I see my new T tomorrow, most of you know I am thinking of switching but I wanted to see the new a few more times before making the switch.

Its just so frustrating. Am I the only one who feels this way? Does your T always correct you when your trying to tell them how or what you feel?

Hangingon

[RiverX]

As it happens I have a freind who does the same thing, and she also happens to be a T. I'd be outta there quick if she was a T. and did that. She does pretty well what you describe your T. doing, and it makes me feel - in fact because I'm more wise to this stuff, I just see it as a bit rediculous and sort of duck. If the right moment arises, I will try to tell her. It is one reason I cant get close to her. She has NO IDEA, thats the amazing thing. Its like language police. She corrects me on soo many things.
She did an NLP training once, this is the danger, its like having a theory, wich is a valid theory, but losing all real relationship with it.
I've gone on a bit, but yes, I've certainly experienced what you describe. Its sad really tho. Good that you're seeing the new T/

river

[ECHOES]

well, this is my issue with CBT, it feels bad. it feels judgemental. it just feels bad to have someone tell you that you "don't think right". ugh.

[chaotic13]

Hmmmm...no my T does not make me feel like my thinking is wrong. Some times she will challenge an assumption I've made but not in a way that makes me feel wrong. I'm around people who challenge each others views and statements all the time, maybe I have just learned to deal with it.

But...honestly my T approach to does not seem to be one where she is attempting to directly "change" my thinking. She seems to play the role of an open minded listener and then helps me realize for myself that my assumptions may not be as accurate as I think.

I think it is REALLY hard for people to hear someone else tell them that they are wrong. Even if they successfully convince me that they are right...I still resent the for telling me I was wrong. I would much rather realize for myself that I was wrong and be able to say something like...."you know, now that I think about it I see your point, I was wrong." Not sure if that makes sense or not.

Bottom line... I would struggle working with someone who was always telling me what I was thinking or feeling is wrong.

[velcro003]

Originally Posted by chaotic13

Hmmmm...no my T does not make me feel like my thinking is wrong. Some times she will challenge an assumption I've made but not in a way that makes me feel wrong. I'm around people who challenge each others views and statements all the time, maybe I have just learned to deal with it.

But...honestly my T approach to does not seem to be one where she is attempting to directly "change" my thinking. She seems to play the role of an open minded listener and then helps me realize for myself that my assumptions may not be as accurate as I think.

I think it is REALLY hard for people to hear someone else tell them that they are wrong. Even if they successfully convince me that they are right...I still resent the for telling me I was wrong. I would much rather realize for myself that I was wrong and be able to say something like...."you know, now that I think about it I see your point, I was wrong." Not sure if that makes sense or not.

Bottom line... I would struggle working with someone who was always telling me what I was thinking or feeling is wrong.

So very true. I sometimes wonder what my T even does at all...like she just sits there and listens and accepts everything I say, and lets me control wherever we go...which can be good, except I do a lot of sitting around in silence. BUT, it is so much better than if she was challenging me in any way, because I would run headlong in the other direction.

Today I was telling her how one of my former bosses was really great in that he pushed me in directions I didn't think I was capable of, but somehow knew what I could and could not handle. Even though I was scared most of the time, it turned out ok and I am grateful of that. She said something to the effect of "I can't quite push you like he did..." like she knows I need that extra push, but you can't say no to your boss, but its much easier to say no to a therapist.

[kim_johnson]

This is the problem that I have with CBT, too. Some people find it useful... But others do not. I don't really. Linehan developed this treatment (which is a variant of CBT) called DBT. She says that there are two strategies: Change. Acceptance. CBT is focused on change, change, change all the time. She felt that that needed to be balanced with acceptance, though. Acceptance of emotions like anger and sadness and fear. Just accepting that sometimes things ARE hard. Sitting with that. Not feeling the need to change it. Can be hard for some people (including some CBT therapists) to understand. Need to feel like they are DOING something to FIX it.

Linehan said that the trouble with change focused strategies was that they could be invalidating or dismissive of the pain and hurt that people have for very genuine and understandable reasons. Some people haven't been treated well and it is understandable that they feel hurt and sad and angry about it. Changing their hurt and sad and angry isn't helping... It is kind of undermining.

You certainly aren't alone in this. Could you maybe ask your therapist if she has heard of Linehan's DBT therapy and about the acceptance based stuff?

[sunrise]

Ouch!!!! That kind of therapy is not therapeutic, IMO. My first therapist was loosely CBT, although I didn't know what that was at the time. She did listen quite a bit and let me grieve. She had some simple behavioral suggestions that were not harmful: get more sleep, get more exercise, etc. And she really pushed me to develop my outside support network, which was very useful. But the thinking thing--well, that doesn't really work with me. I can remember just 2 times she tried the "wrong thinking" approach. The first time we were going over how very, very hurt I was by something my H had done, and she wanted me to talk to him about this. I told her I could never do this because then he would say X, Y, and Z and do such and such and I would be devastated. She told me I was catastrophesizing and his reaction wouldn't possibly be that bad. So against my better judgment, I believed her, and had this conversation with my H. That was about the most painful day that year for me. It was even worse than I had warned her about. It was terrible. So I reported back to her next session and I think she learned her lesson--that she needed to trust me, my thoughts, and my judgment. I am a very clear thinker and do not exaggerate. The other time I can remember her pulling the wrong thinking/feeling crap was one time she asked me how something made me feel, and I told her. I honestly shared my feeling with her. And she corrected me!!!! I could not believe it. I said, "well, you asked!!" If she doesn't want to hear my feeling then she should not ask me to share. She said, "fair enough," and she never did that again either. Sheeeesh, if they want you to get close to them and share your thoughts and feelings, they had better be accepting, or the client will just clam up. A main issue of mine is being very contained, and holding in all my emotions. So I need encouragement to express my feelings and actually, to be a bit irrational and just let go. My thinking tends to be very rational and I'm very analytical. I need help with allowing myself to feel, not changing my thinking.

I just finished taking an undergrad psychology course, and the last week, we saw films of various famous therapists doing their brand of therapy. We saw Albert Ellis, who invented REBT, which is a forerunner of CBT. This man was terrible!!! He wouldn't let his client get a word in edgewise. He talked over her in a loud voice, and wouldn't listen to her. He constantly interrupted her. He said about 10 words for her every one. Someone would pay to listen to a therapist talk for an hour??? He told her how all her thinking was wrong, etc., and tried to define her problems for her! It was just terrible. This is supposed to be therapy? If I had been with that rude man, I would have walked out.

Anyway, I think the CBT approach can be quite wrongheaded and not very healing. Maybe when it is mixed in reasonably sized doses with other forms of therapy, it might be better, at least for someone like me. I know CBT is supposed to be effective for depression, but it just seems so hurtful and well, "bossy." There is no room for the client to choose their own path. And the therapy seems focused on dealing with symptoms rather than identifying and dealing with the causes of dysfunctional behaviors. It's just a band-aid and will fall off in time, and there you are, right back with your wound, needing another band-aid.

So, hangingon, I really sympathize with you and your experience. It sounds very hurtful and not helpful or healing. I am so sorry. I think a good course is to gain confidence in your own thinking. If you are with a therapist who cannot truly listen to you and accept your thoughts and feelings, how will you ever gain confidence in your own validity?

I think you were very brave to speak up and tell her the negative effects her technique is having on you. Can she use some other techniques as well, or is CBT the only thing she knows? I did eventually need to leave my first therapist, because I became stuck, and had exhausted all the tools and skills in her CBT toolbox. My current therapist has many tools and approaches and chooses what works best for the client, rather than using a one size fits all approach, which is what I think a lot of CBT therapists do.

<-- me and my anti-CBT brigade

hangingon, do you know what type of therapy your new therapist provides?

Much as your new therapist sounds promising, I have also detected a growing willingness from you to confront your current therapist and tell her what you are truly thinking and feeling. You are telling her what's important, the needs you have, and what works for you and doesn't. This is great! There's definitely some trust there if you are able to do all of that. I hope she is able to accommodate this growth and change in you, and make a welcoming space for it.

Originally Posted by hangingon

Does your T always correct you when your trying to tell them how or what you feel?

My current T--No, never. But there are times when he can be directive, and I'm OK with that--sometimes the situation calls or it.

Good luck with T #2 tomorrow, hangingon.

[pachyderm]

I have to agree with a lot of the comments here. I feel that I cannot say "wrong" things because I will always receive a "comment" of some sort, never just a listen. If I say something like this to the T he just defends himself. I do not think he gets it. I do not know anyone who does. When I am in a bad place this just makes things worse.

[Angel_of_the_Past]

Couldn't have said it better...

Originally Posted by pachyderm

I have to agree with a lot of the comments here. I feel that I cannot say "wrong" things because I will always receive a "comment" of some sort, never just a listen. If I say something like this to the T he just defends himself. I do not think he gets it. I do not know anyone who does. When I am in a bad place this just makes things worse.

[peaches100]

My t often does correct my thinking, but in oh, such a tactful way. She will almost always validate my feelings first or show understanding as to how or why I would feel the way I do. Then, she makes a statement or asks a question that causes me to consider and/or see things in a new light.

For example, if I say, "I've been hurt too many times, and I never want to get close to anybody again!!" She would say something like, "It's understandable that you feel that way. Nobody likes being hurt." Then she might say, "Could you agree that perhaps there might be somebody out there who would not want to hurt you?"

OR. . .

If I say, "I'm thinking about not coming in for my session tomorrow. I feel too anxious and embarrassed about what I told you last week." She would say something like, "It's natural to feel some anxiety when you've opened up about your deepest feelings. But how would avoiding your session help you?"

[Angel_of_the_Past]

Originally Posted by peaches100

If I say, "I'm thinking about not coming in for my session tomorrow. I feel too anxious and embarrassed about what I told you last week." She would say something like, "It's natural to feel some anxiety when you've opened up about your deepest feelings. But how would avoiding your session help you?"

My T is very tactful in how she re-frames my words and thoughts also. But with that said...sometimes I still get my feelings hurt by this process. Haven't mustered up the strength to tell her so when it happens but I'm working on it.

Hugs,
Angel

[hangingon]

Sunrise
I did finally tell my T what I was feeling because we were in the middle of a CBT session and were talking about expressing feelings, so I thought the heck with it I am thinking about moving on anyways, so I said what I was feeling. TO be honest it got me know where, in that moment she was doing exactly what I was telling her bothered me so much.

Some one else mentioned validation first, my T rarely ever does that, I could probably count on one hand hand the times she has in a year. Its always thats black and what thinking, or thats irrrational, or thats minimizing ect. I know these terms because she taught me them. Thats the whole point, I know I have these issues, and I am already hard on myself about them, I can't take being slammed everytime I try to tell her how I feel, it makes me not want to talk to her about things at all. I can't figure it out.
Shes does psychoanalytic and cognative behavior therapy.

SHe just always seems to get on me about something. For instance I had told her that I just started taking something called Sam-e a natural product that helps with moods. I don't take meds and I have been feeling much more depressed since my moms death. So I try to be proactive and do something for myself here. I asked if she ever heard of it, she said no. Then she says, do you excercise, I said I use to run on the treadmill every other day but with school and all that happened this past semester I haven't been good about that.
SO she says, well I think you should be trying that before Sam-e.

I dont' know, I know alot of the things she says are for my good but I have never showed my emotions growing up and have a very hard time doing that, showing my feelings, and now I feel like I can't because I can't take being corrected every time I see her. I just want to be able to sit and feel, just once in a while. Sure we can talk about it but sometimes I need to sit through those emotions first. She just doesn't get it.

Hanging on

[searchingmysoul]

hanginon

And to answer your question: No it does not feel like my T ever corrects me. She is very validating of my feelings and needs. I find this very helpful.

I would be interested to know how your Th appt w/ the new T went....

Take care,
Searching

[Simcha]

Originally Posted by kim_johnson

This is the problem that I have with CBT, too. Some people find it useful... But others do not. I don't really. Linehan developed this treatment (which is a variant of CBT) called DBT. She says that there are two strategies: Change. Acceptance. CBT is focused on change, change, change all the time. She felt that that needed to be balanced with acceptance, though. Acceptance of emotions like anger and sadness and fear. Just accepting that sometimes things ARE hard. Sitting with that. Not feeling the need to change it. Can be hard for some people (including some CBT therapists) to understand. Need to feel like they are DOING something to FIX it.

Linehan said that the trouble with change focused strategies was that they could be invalidating or dismissive of the pain and hurt that people have for very genuine and understandable reasons. Some people haven't been treated well and it is understandable that they feel hurt and sad and angry about it. Changing their hurt and sad and angry isn't helping... It is kind of undermining.

You certainly aren't alone in this. Could you maybe ask your therapist if she has heard of Linehan's DBT therapy and about the acceptance based stuff?

I think Linehan was right about that. If my T tried to change me, "fix" me, and "correct" me all the time I'd feel condescended to, invalidated, and extremely dysfunctional. There must be balance between acceptance and change for anything real, lasting, and beneficial to occur.

I'm glad my T is an accepting person.