[sittingatwatersedge]

not sure I would agree with this but it's something I ran across somewhere
“Therapy is an arrangement in which a patient pays a doctor some money which obligates the doctor to listen and keeps him from going away, no matter how badly he is treated or what the patient says to him. After a while the patient gets to feel guilty over the way he’s been acting towards this doctor. After all, even if the doctor is paid to listen and takes all the abuse, he is still a person. So the patient begins to look at how he acts and tries to be nicer to the doctor. And then after a while the patient starts being nicer even to people he isn’t paying to listen to him. And that’s what therapy is.”

[clara0clear0eyes]

wow. i would have never thought of it that way.

i was just coming on the psychotherapist page for the first time to ask a coupla question and saw this first.

i guess thats one way to look at it.
gives you something to think about but i'm hoping that if i enter therapy again it wont take on such a negative feel.


have a good day,
clara

[lifelesstraveled]

Originally Posted by sittingatwatersedge

not sure I would agree with this but it's something I ran across somewhere
“Therapy is an arrangement in which a patient pays a doctor some money which obligates the doctor to listen and keeps him from going away, no matter how badly he is treated or what the patient says to him. After a while the patient gets to feel guilty over the way he’s been acting towards this doctor. After all, even if the doctor is paid to listen and takes all the abuse, he is still a person. So the patient begins to look at how he acts and tries to be nicer to the doctor. And then after a while the patient starts being nicer even to people he isn’t paying to listen to him. And that’s what therapy is.”

ummm i dont think I agree with this either. For one, call me optimistic, but I like to think that ppl who get into this field do it with some sincereity in the sense that they truly want to help people and not just take the patient's money and be abused in the process. It's kind of like saying...yeah for this amount of money you can come and sit and abuse me for x amount of time and x amount of sessions.

It also makes it seem like all patients go into therapy ready to rip on their therapists! I am completely not like that. I could never do that to her. Granted there may be some..what do you guys call it, which I have yet to experience? Transference or projection or something? But how often does that happen and to what extent???

I dont think I agree with it at all....

[krazibean]

ehhh, nah not quite. couple reasons
1. people don't go into therapy to work strictly on how they treat people
2. the therapist has a much bigger job than to sit and allow the patient to act inappropriately
I will say that the quote isn't totalllly off. In therapy people practice relationship skills with their therapist and eventually they use the skills on people outside the relationship. But to say that's all therapy is to me is incorrect.

[phoenix7]

I can see the being nice to others after therapy bit being true, T's help us deal with stuff that makes us short tempered at times and anxious and fearful so yep the being nice to others bit rings true, but I cant imagine anyone going into T training thinking that being paid to be abused is ok - I get abused somtimes in my job (prob most jobs do) but its not part of why I do what I do. It's just an unfrtunate thing that happens.

P7

Originally Posted by sittingatwatersedge

not sure I would agree with this but it's something I ran across somewhere
“Therapy is an arrangement in which a patient pays a doctor some money which obligates the doctor to listen and keeps him from going away, no matter how badly he is treated or what the patient says to him. After a while the patient gets to feel guilty over the way he’s been acting towards this doctor. After all, even if the doctor is paid to listen and takes all the abuse, he is still a person. So the patient begins to look at how he acts and tries to be nicer to the doctor. And then after a while the patient starts being nicer even to people he isn’t paying to listen to him. And that’s what therapy is.”

If no one minds, I think I will rewrite this little blurb:

Therapy is an arrangement in which a patient pays a therapist because most people aren't willing to do their job for free. Therapy is also an arrangement in which the patient is simply paying the therapist for a space of time in which the interaction of therapy can occur.

The patient is not a dog. Therefore, it is not like he will stop biting people because he realized he won't get his treat if he continues to do so.

Patients rarely take all of their therapy time to "abuse" the therapist. The "abuse," which I would rather call "anger" comes out at certain times, but is not the whole person-- it is a part of the person.

The anger is a positive thing, as the patient begins to realize that if he/she gets angry at the therapist, it will not be seen as pathological; that is, the therapist won't go away because of it. The anger is also a sign of autonomy in many cases-- the patient is not afraid to pull back, or disagree with the therapist because trust has been formed.

The therapist and the patient then work very hard to find out what is at the core of the anger. Very often it is intense anxiety-- the fear of being abandoned or rejected.

Therapy is an intense, intimate relationship. It is really the overlap of two people giving, and the product of what occurs within the space of the overlap. And that's what therapy is.

[Brian37]

just an observation, but we should refer to ourselves as "clients" not "patients"

patients represents "passivity" or "passive" in their care whereas the client is involved in their care with the therapist

[hangingon]

Good point Brian. Yet, I must say in nursing school we actually call the patient's clients when we do paper work now was well.

[ECHOES]

nah. my T uses patients and I like the sound of it. i am in her care and that's where i want to be.

[sunrise]

Originally Posted by sittingatwatersedge

“Therapy is an arrangement in which a patient pays a doctor some money which obligates the doctor to listen and keeps him from going away, no matter how badly he is treated or what the patient says to him. After a while the patient gets to feel guilty over the way he’s been acting towards this doctor. After all, even if the doctor is paid to listen and takes all the abuse, he is still a person. So the patient begins to look at how he acts and tries to be nicer to the doctor. And then after a while the patient starts being nicer even to people he isn’t paying to listen to him. And that’s what therapy is.”

Pretty much nothing about this describes my therapy. I don't treat my therapist badly or make him want to go away. I don't feel guilty about treating my therapist a certain way, because I treat him great! We treat each other with respect. I certainly don't abuse him. If anything, my therapy has progressed to being able to occasionally show some anger to T. I started out very nice, very contained, and am learning how to show a fuller range of emotions. I have always been very nice to people in real life too. But I am learning to have better relationships outside therapy and not settle for crap when people give it to me. Being nice doesn't mean having to be a doormat.

I prefer the "client" designation too, but know that some mental health practitioners prefer patient. I think of patient as being part of the medical model and a patient as being sick. I don't feel I am sick or have a mental illness. I am just working on being better at life.

[sittingatwatersedge]

all - thanks for your comments. I really shouldnt have posted that, I don't agree with it either but when I read that blurb it bothered me a lot, because I have this secret fear that some day my T will rise up and tell me "that's enough coddling, everything that has ever happened to you is your own fault and I'm so tired of it" - that IS NOT what therapy is all about and you've confirmed it in a dozen ways.

by the way, "patient" is not such a bad term - it comes from a Latin word meaning to suffer, and heaven knows, T patients certainly suffer a lot.

I find the whole issue of terms pretty interesting. When I was an therapist/intern at an psychiatric hospital, we referred to the individuals as "patients." Now that I work at an outpatient clinic, suddenly there are "clients." They tried to get us to call the people we work with "members" or "consumers." The whole thing is completely ridiculous to me. A member of what? A psychotherapy agency is not a club. Consumers? You consume a bag of pretzels. Not psychological treatment.

I tend to stick with the term "patient." It is still commonly used among psychoanalytic/dynamic therapists. I don't understand why people don't have a problem being their psychiatrist's patient, yet they have to be their therapist's client.

I don't think the term is such a big deal. People say they want to be "client" because it implies that they are working with the therapist, rather than being under the care of the therapist. I feel like I am a client of the woman who does my taxes.
I think the bottom line is it doesn't really matter what the term is, as long as the treatment is good.

[Brian37]

{taping mouth shut}

reminder to self:

outnumbered 75 to 1 by females in psychotherapy forum

must resist temptation to voice my opinion

[MissCharlotte]

Originally Posted by sittingatwatersedge

not sure I would agree with this but it's something I ran across somewhere
“Therapy is an arrangement in which a patient pays a doctor some money which obligates the doctor to listen and keeps him from going away, no matter how badly he is treated or what the patient says to him. After a while the patient gets to feel guilty over the way he’s been acting towards this doctor. After all, even if the doctor is paid to listen and takes all the abuse, he is still a person. So the patient begins to look at how he acts and tries to be nicer to the doctor. And then after a while the patient starts being nicer even to people he isn’t paying to listen to him. And that’s what therapy is.”

I think this quote does a great disservice to the therapeutic relationship. If I felt that is what was happening, I probably wouldn't go.

I am a person and so is T.

Oh yeah, he says "patient" I like it too.

[hangingon]

lol....I have never had a therapist call me a patient or client yet, not to my face anyways lol...

I could care less either way as well....

[pachyderm]

As for the originally quoted description of therapy, I thought it was one of those funny, oh-so-nearly-true observations, not something to be taken completely seriously.

Client vs. patient: I don't care that much. Isn't "clients" a term used to talk about prostitutes' customers too?

[sittingatwatersedge]

[quote=clara0clear0eyes;889731] i was just coming on the psychotherapist page for the first time to ask a coupla question and saw this first. i'm hoping that if i enter therapy again it wont take on such a negative feel.

dear Clara CE,
I was horrified to see your post. please don't let me scare you off. I have been in my first T for about 14 months now, and looking back I don't know where I would be today without it. I have learned so much and my T is truly a kind, patient and SKILLED person. I will try to watch what I say from now on, you have come to a good place with a lot of caring people.

[ECHOES]

LOL Brian! What you said was absolutely fine! Look what interesting discussion it generated--thanks!

[sunrise]

Originally Posted by pinksoil

I don't understand why people don't have a problem being their psychiatrist's patient, yet they have to be their therapist's client.

Perhaps it's not that people have a "problem" but they are just following the lead of their mental health practitioners. I have been to two different therapists and they both referred to the people who come to see them for therapy as "clients." Who am I to insist I am their "patient" and that therefore they are part of the medical model? I follow their lead. The pdoc is an MD and part of the medical model. It is completely understandable to me that pdocs would think of the people they treat as "patients." Over in kim_johnson's thread, I asked about her situtuation, which wouldn't be clearcut to me. She sees a pdoc, but for therapy services, not medication services. What are the terms used in this situation?

[sunrise]

Originally Posted by Brian37

{taping mouth shut}

reminder to self:

outnumbered 75 to 1 by females in psychotherapy forum

must resist temptation to voice my opinion

Brian, quite a few people agreed with you that they use the client designation. It's interesting to me that it would bother you that your post had generated some discussion. That's a good thing, Brian! It means you said something interesting and worth commenting on. It has nothing to do with whether a person is male or female.

[kim_johnson]

ah, i see. my t in australia is a p-doc. i just call him t. or sometimes BOOGER. if he has been very very bad ;-)

[phoenix7]

as a Nurse I was taught to call the people I help recover from injury patients - then that changed to clients - it's supposed to make people feel more valued and in a partnership - yet the patients/clients still call themselves patients and the dr's still call them patients - its all very confusing - I've only ever heard my T refer to me by my name - whether she calls me patient or client I dont care as long as she can help me get my sanity back! P7

and Brian, I agree with Sunrise and Echoes keep putting your 2 cents worth in it makes for an interesting forum - everyone is allowed to have their own opinion and that is whats great about coming here P7

[kim_johnson]

Marsha Linehan has a discussion about terminology in her treatment manual for borderline personality disorder. She says that she thinks there is a case to be made either way:

PATIENT (derived from the medical model):
good - patient sufferer. kind of stoic.
bad - helpless. needs paternalistic figure to rescue them.

CLIENT / CONSUMER (derived from the economics model):
good - autonomous consumer of healthcare (implies rationality)
bad - makes the therapy relationship out to be like any other contract for services (like getting ones hair cut or something. should we tip therapists?)

(She is a clinical psychologist. she said she felt neither term was optimal but we don't have a better one. so she went with one term in the book and the other term in the side-kick skills training manual to the book)

[phoenix7]

Originally Posted by kim_johnson

CLIENT / CONSUMER (derived from the economics model):
good - autonomous consumer of healthcare (implies rationality)
bad - makes the therapy relationship out to be like any other contract for services (like getting ones hair cut or something. should we tip therapists?)

EEK! tip therapists LOL cant even work out who I should tip now ! eek!

and come to think of it I think the term patient would be right for me - my T is always telling me I have to be PATIENT LOL

[kim_johnson]

I guess I don't like the focus on economic arrangement (payment). because... i find the relationship to be most beneficial and hence reflecting on the payment kind of demeans it / undermines it.

(I know that many therapists have a rant on how payment helps them feel valued and helps the client value the therapist and so on and so forth. i feel that this is largely their attempt to justify their focus on money).

I don't think that any relationship (any healthy relationship) is unconditional. i think there must be limits. therapist punches me in the face - therapy is over. i don't go back. i punch therapist in the face - therapy is over. i don't go back. any healthy relationship needs limits... if therapist is only there for the paycheck then (in my experience) therapist isn't really there. and if client pushes the therapists limits of what they can get away with in therapy... well... there are some limits that result in a termination of contract (ugh how economics).

being nicer to others...

an interesting take on therapy :-)