[sunrise]

I'm still on the therapy every 2 weeks schedule. I don't get desperate between sessions, but I do miss him. When I went there this week, it seemed like I hadn't been there for ages. T thought so too--it's been a while, he said.

What are you needing today? he asks. To talk. At one time that was a hard question for me--way to put me on the spot!--but I go to a therapist to talk, so I am comfortable giving that generic answer if I have no other pressing need. It's better than saying "nothing", because then I guess I should just head out the door. Needing to talk is a need.

I have a story to tell him and it's hard to get him to stay with the thread. He's jumping around to other stuff and following up on side strands that are not important to me. Stay with me, T, and where I am trying to go. I start to lay the story down and we have some good moments.

Unfortunately, at one point we need to verify some future legal meetings, so he gets his appointment book. Yep, they're all there. Now put book away, T. But he has brought his laptop over too, which I don't understand as his schedule is kept in his book. He keeps looking at the laptop as I'm talking and not giving me his full attention. His questions as I talk indicate he is not fully with me. What are you needing today, he asks again, as if to change the subject. But I don't want to change the subject. I am trying to go somewhere with him. To talk, I say again. Pause--he still doesn't look up at me. I need you to put your computer away, I say. (Wow, a year ago I never would have been able to say that to him.) OK, he says, I'm shutting things down. But it seems to take forever. He keeps looking and typing in stuff. Is he reading his email? I sit and don't say anything. He asks me another question that is outside of our train of talk. I say, I'm not talking to you until you finish with your laptop. I had it out for your schedule, he says. Finally, he is done, and he pushes it away, and just at that moment a cell phone buzzes, the sound they make when set to vibrate. Again and again. I say, is that you or me? It's my phone, he says, somewhat sheepishly. Sheesh, I am really having to compete with the electronica tonight.

We get back to the main flow and the story goes really well. It ends up being a great rest of the session. He says several times, I cannot believe what you just have told me, that we are sitting here talking about this. That you are where you are. He thanks me for sharing this with him and says what I have told him is health. He was worried about me the last week and how I would be taking things (had a bit of a road bump) and it turns out I am just fine. He is surprised and I tell him a lot of good has come from it, and that amazes me too. I have discovered something in myself that I didn't know was there. A good thing. I feel very centered. And yes, very healthy. Very certain of who I am. He tells me I am fully integrated, and I'm not sure quite what to make of that word, but I think it means partly that I have confidence in who I am, and am not swayed by what others think about that.

He says I am where I am at because I have not shyed from the hard work, all the grief work, but have gone right through it. He says many people don't want to do it, because it is too painful, and so they think that just because they don't do it, that they will be all right. But they're not, and they have years of unhappiness or anger because of it, all because they were scared to do the front end work. He sees people turn down the opportunity to heal all the time, and says with therapies like EMDR, people can be helped more quickly than before with grief and pain and trauma. I sense in him a slight frustration, a sense of helplessness--like, you can know how to help a person, but you can't do anything unless they are willing to do it too. And so you just have to let them go. I think that must be a little bit painful for a T, just a little--I know it goes with the job.

On the way out, I get a very tender, full on hug (as distinct from our frequently sideways hugs). He says something again about where I am at, and I say, I would not be here without you, and he says, right back atcha. I think he gets something out of our relationship too, and that thought always warms me. I have made another appointment in 2 weeks time. He says something like, if you need me, you know how to find me. What? I am not sure what he is saying. He says something else kind of cryptic. What do you mean? Then he states very clearly, if you need me in between sessions, email me, and we can talk or write. Just let me know and I am here. He seemed somewhat wistful like he wished that I was not going to be taking 2 weeks in between sessions. That is total projection on my part, I'm sure, LOL, but he has never ever told me to email him if I needed him or implied that I could use email for that reason. I use email with him mostly for business stuff like changing appointments, etc. It is kind of crazy to me what he just said, like he is offering more than I need or have asked for because he wants our connection too, not just for the good it will do me, but for himself. I don't know how to explain it--probably projection again. I never tried to do email therapy with him or reach out to him that way with desperate concerns or feelings or neediness or long explanations of what was happening in my life. I was what I thought was being very respectful of his boundaries with our occasional, brief email exchanges. And now he offers this. I feel very honored and taken care of that he would offer that to me. Like he also cares about me when I am not in his office.

Last night I dreamt that T told me he was going on a vacation to Hawaii with a bunch of people and had reserved a campsite right on the water, and everyone was going to bring their tents, and it was going to be fantastic. He asked if I wanted to come, and all I had to do was go to the vacation website and sign up. He said it would be inexpensive because we were camping and I would only need to pay for airfare and bring my own tent. I was somewhat taken aback by this invitation but also felt pleased, like he wanted me in his life in a different way from therapy. But I had some little worries. It was a bit confusing. Do I want to go in this direction? Do I want to leave the therapeutic relationship with him behind? Because this seemed like it might change things. But I did want to go. I thought how T had managed his triple role with me very well (individual T, couples T, and divorce coach), as he had assured me he could, so I should trust him and believe that he could handle this potential change/addition to his role too (Hawaii vacation buddy). As it turned out, I ended up not being able to go to Hawaii because of a conflict with the dates, and I remember feeling relieved, because I realized I didn't want to go to Hawaii with T until I had lost some weight because I don't look so hot in a bathing suit right now. But then somehow I was in Hawaii anyway, at the campsite. And I don't remember T being there, but I was with his group and remember talking and hanging out with his wife a lot. She was a very direct person and didn't hesitate to speak her mind about things, but since I largely agreed with her, I didn't mind. What this all means, I'm not sure. I wonder where T was? Maybe out snorkeling. Or looking for a wi-fi signal for his laptop.

just another one of my way too long posts.....

[phoenix7]

what a frustrating session with the laptop etc but way to go asking him to put it away - very brave

I am so glad that you have such a good relationship with your T - the rest of the session sounds great!

and what a lovely dream - maybe it just shows how comfortable you are with him

I loved hearing about your session, sunny. You have such a wonderful connection with T, and I like to read about it

Your dream was interesting. I have had dreams where T seems to want to be my friend, and I don't like them. In the dream, I have this feeling of "yay!" but also of "I need this guy to be my THERAPIST" and I always wake up KNOWING, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that I love him being my therapist, I love the safety of that, and I never want it to change. I wonder if you were working out something similar??

[MissCharlotte]

Sunny,

Thanks for sharing your session. It sounds like it was very connected due to your insistence and persistence! You sound so confident in yourself, I think that is wonderful. So, what kind of bathing suit would your T wear?

[emilyjeanne]

Great session! I wish I had the recall ability that you have.

[sunrise]

Originally Posted by earthmama

I have had dreams where T seems to want to be my friend, and I don't like them. In the dream, I have this feeling of "yay!" but also of "I need this guy to be my THERAPIST" and I always wake up KNOWING, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that I love him being my therapist, I love the safety of that, and I never want it to change. I wonder if you were working out something similar??

I have always loved that he is my therapist and I've never wanted to be friends or lovers, etc. In one of our very early sessions, he spontaneously suggested (at the doorknob) that I would like being a part of his "church" (for lack of a better word, as he is not traditionally religious, but more spiritual). I froze at this "invitation" and was terrified he was suggesting I join some external activity of which he was part. Plus, I have this phobia about religion because my H was very dictatorial about what sort of religious or spiritual thought or activity was allowed in the house (he is a radical atheist), and the mere mention of this by T made me feel like even my thinking about doing something "religious" would get me in trouble. I felt frightened, like I might be beaten--that's the irrational place I was in. So I kind of had a freaky reaction when T suggested I would like his "church". After all, I hardly knew him, and was still in that "terrified of my H" stage. Then just a few weeks ago, T told me this little fantasy he had (I mentioned it here on PC), in which all the people in his life who were "deep" souls would get together and do something together, like a social activity, and he included me in this group. And I felt really different than over 2 years ago when he suggested the "church" thing. I felt like, yeah, I would like to get together with T and his gang. It made me feel closer to him that he would include me in his imaginings. So the dream was kind of like that--T invited me to do this activity (Hawaii) with him and his friends/family. And in the dream I kind of wanted to do it, but still felt a bit of trepidation. I think I am growing to the point where I might be able to accept seeing T outside of the office. I'm not saying I want that, but just that I now feel possibly capable of it, whereas before I just was very uncomfortable with the idea.

I think there is a part of me that lately feels more and more that I don't need therapy now, and this part of me is casting about for a way to continue the relationship after therapy ends. Hence, the Hawaii dream. There are two big reasons I go to therapy: 1) to get help with my issues, solve problems, deal with feelings, get support, etc. and 2) to see and be with T, because we have a great rapport and enjoy each other's company so much. I'm feeling like reason 1 is fading, but reason 2 is still there, stronger than ever. But I have this feeling that reason 2 is not enough to justify going to therapy. Like the therapy police are going to catch me and say, "you can't go to therapy just because you are close to your T and like to be with him."

I think the Hawaii dream is an attempt to solve the problem of termination. It's interesting what my unconscious is willing to grapple with that I am not.

[RiverX]

Sunrise,
this is where I have trouble, maybe you can say something that would help ....

if a T. had done that to me with the computer thing, I would have been so triggered, because I would have seen it like this: .

'You're the T. I am paying you, not just to be here, but I am having to show you how to behave, and paying you for the privilege. THIS is such a double bind, that it doesnt seem enough just to challenge this in the session, ... , it needs to be put right, like not having to pay for that session, because it perpetuates the 'over entitlement' of some to have this laissez faire attitude that s not fitting'.

..it doesnt make for an easy life, having these attitudes, and needless to say, I lose a lot of relationships. But am I wrong?
I know people who so badly needed help, and would have felt so betrayed by this that they would have gone off and that would have been the last chance to help them. That he knows you well, and is comfortable enough, just doesnt seem to make it ok iether.

obviously, you dealt with this and the outcome was fine for you, ...
how..?
what ..?
just some thoughts and personal responses, I'm trying to educate myself about how other humans react so differently than me..

riverx

[sunrise]

RiverX, thanks for your thoughtful post. I thought there might be some people here who would focus on the laptop thing. Your post really made me think about that, and it is interesting to think about how there is not one universal response (thoughts, feelings, actions) to a given situation. People are different.

Originally Posted by RiverX

But am I wrong?

To me, your post hinges on this question. For me, it isn't so much a question of right or wrong or that there is one absolute "right" and "wrong" that works for all situations. There are different situations and people and circumstances. I think you need to work out what is right and wrong for you based on your circumstances and the people involved. T and I resolved this to our satisfaction. Sure, it created a little bit of angst while in session, but we dealt with it satisfactorily and didn't let it dominate our time together. It was an example of problem solving, communicating, boundary setting--all the relationship skills I need out there in real life.

Because my T is also my divorce coach, sometimes times arise during our sessions when he must do a business type thing involving his laptop, as it pertains to my case. Scheduling is one example or checking something in a relevant email. I am indeed paying him to do these things. There have been times when he composed emails in our sessions, and then read them back to me, and I was so glad, as I had the opportunity to edit them and make sure they communicated what I wanted them to. However, I don't like to dally on these things during my sessions (there is always the tension between the dual role of therapist and coach), and it seemed to me that T had brought his laptop over unnecessarily. It seemed all he needed was his appointment book, but then again, maybe I don't fully understand his calendaring system. But I felt once he put his appointment book down, he should put the laptop away too, and he kept looking at it and not fully listening to me. I don't like it when he tries to do therapy with me with one part of his brain but another part is doing something else, like looking at a computer screen. The quality of the therapy he provides declines. I think he should just finish his scheduling or whatever on the laptop and be done with it, and not try to listen and talk to me at the same time. So yeah, I felt T was "wrong" to do this, but I fixed it by telling him what I needed. Maybe I don't know the full story as I don't know why he needed his laptop with him for the scheduling. But he did comply with my wishes and he did stop trying to talk to me until he was finished, and he realized he was "wrong". Anyway, whether right or wrong, the situation was resolved and we moved on and had a great session. He has been reminded that I don't like the laptop work to go on forever, and he gave me his full attention, empathy, etc. For me there would be no point to hold a grudge about this and keep harping about this or let it prevent the important (and rewarding) work of the session. Just because T was "wrong" for trying to talk and do laptop at the same time, doesn't mean I need to throw our therapeutic relationship out the window. That would be like throwing the baby out with the bath water. (I also have some negative transference that I recognize in regards to the laptop. When I would go to talk to my H about child rearing issues, he would usually be on his computer, and he would just keep working on it as we spoke and not seem to be paying attention to me, and often he would be watching pornography. Yuck. So yeah, I have issues with someone using a computer while I am trying to talk to them. I am cognizant of this and try not to let this invade my interaction with T when he has his laptop out.)

We first talked about the laptop a while ago, and he told me in certain circumstances his wife doesn't like it when he goes on his laptop. And I said me too, and his eyes widened. I can still see that expression, lol. He was totally interested in my comments. I told him that when he has the laptop on his lap, it stands between us, like a barrier, and makes it hard to connect. We had a really good discussion about that. He didn't realize that and thanked me sincerely for telling him. And his laptop behavior "improved" after that and I bet it improved with other clients too. He just did not realize that it could be a barrier to connection for clients (maybe it wasn't for him), even though the laptop was needed in session at the time. So he learned from this, and I appreciate he can still learn after many years of being a therapist.

So at our last session, I reminded him of my boundary about the laptop, communicated my needs, he responded, and the problem was solved. I feel proud of that sequence, as it is not something I could have done when I began therapy. If I had to remind him every session about the laptop, I'd probably get pissed off or fed up, but that has not been the case.

I know people who so badly needed help, and would have felt so betrayed by this that they would have gone off and that would have been the last chance to help them. That he knows you well, and is comfortable enough, just doesnt seem to make it ok iether.

I think there are people with certain personalities and histories who are extremely sensitive to abandonment, rejection, etc., and they would not have been able to tolerate this. I think he is a skilled enough clinician to know this. Although I have some abandonment issues, they may not be as severe, and I am not a black and white thinker, given to catastrophizing, etc., and he knows this, so that probably feeds into his choices. (Every T knows not to treat all clients the same.) I think for those people, he would probably have to charge them more, because he would have to do some of these business type tasks outside of session, so they would need to pay for his extra time. (He would need to bill them like a lawyer, for every minute spent on their case.) Or he would just have to eat the loss in compensation, and I am sure he does this frequently. But at least for some clients, including myself, he can do these tasks in session, when I am paying him to do them and know that it is not the end of the world if he does them.

[RiverX]

Thank you sunrise. For this thorough and validating response.

Everything you said makes a lot of sense. But STILL theres something I feel inconsolable about this.
And I'm sure it is, as you said about abandonment etc issues. But theres still something inside me that I havent solved, or found proper words for.

I think my recent experiences with therapy were so highly emotionally loaded that in some ways I'm beyond the ordinary rational.

still, the way you described it the second time it sounded a lot different, re the double roles and necassary use of laptop etc.

.......I'll be thinking more about this...

let you know when I find the answer....

my CaliT used to take notes, I had the feeling he was going to put them in the cosmic microwave and come back with the answer for me in the next session, somehow, he never did, he just took more notes!!

r.

[sunrise]

Originally Posted by MissCharlotte

So, what kind of bathing suit would your T wear?

lol, I missed that. Maybe he would wear Hawaii print shorts. Just as long as he doesn't wear a speedo. I have an aversion to men in speedos.

Oh, wow, I just remembered that at my last session, T had no beard. He shaved it off! Disappointment. How unobservant I was. But I guess it was still so new, it didn't really seem part of him.

[peaches100]

Sunrise,

Interesting thread! I love hearing about your work in t and your t relationship.

I was thinking about t's comment, where he invited you to email him between sessions. I know you were surprised by this offer because you've never been a person to use in between session time because of crises and such. You wondered why t would make this offer now?

What came to my mind when reading it was that, since he had complimented you on your great progress, he may have wanted to emphasize that he is still available to help you and the connection is still there. Some people, when told how great they are doing, begin to worry that they should not ask their t for help with anything anymore, but handle everything on their own. Maybe he just wanted you to know that, should you need it, he is still there.