[jerrymichele]

Hey guys, I need some help from you here, but I need some questions answered. I can never get a straight answer when I actually ask guys my questions.
1) When men are upset, why do they blame their mate if it has nothing to do with them?
2) Why does a man want his real life woman to look like a magazine model?
3) Why do some men get upset when a woman wants to do something for herself, or do something alone by herself?
4) Why do men get jealous when women want to go out with her friends?

If I think of any more questions I will come back and ask.

[GrayNess]

I'll try to answer your questions but bare in mind, I'm still a teenager so my answers may not reflect those of older men who you may wish to have answered.

Originally Posted by jerrymichele

1) When men are upset, why do they blame their mate if it has nothing to do with them?

The simple answer is that when we're upset, we're usually not very rational and we regress to a more primitive state where if something is near-by, we're going to blame it. Also, we're more likely to not blame ourselves for the reason due to fundamental attribution biases. When I say "we", I mean males and females because this applies to both.

Originally Posted by jerrymichele

2) Why does a man want his real life woman to look like a magazine model?

I cant answer this one personally because I don't care if they look exactly like a model but for the ones that do, they probably like the model and want to have a person that looks like that model so they can fulfill their sexual desires and gratification.

Originally Posted by jerrymichele

3) Why do some men get upset when a woman wants to do something for herself, or do something alone by herself?

I think this is for men or for couples who are more insecure and controlling or jealous because they think their partner may be hiding something or be cheating on them or saying something bad about them or stealing from them and so forth. It's a long list of possibilities.

Originally Posted by jerrymichele

4) Why do men get jealous when women want to go out with her friends?

Possibly because the man is insecure and unsure if the partner will leave him. Also, they may love the partner immensely and feel that her friends are intruding on his "space" with her even though they're not. It's akin to when a mother has a baby and spends time with it and less time with her loving husband. The husband may feel jealous and that the baby is stealing his wife away from him.

[Timgt5]

Why does a man want his real life woman to look like a magazine model?

I will let you in on a secret here. Of course this depends on which kind of magazine you are talking about. Most fashion models are actually too skinny to be attractive to the average guy. These dilapidated concentration camp survivors that pass for fashion models these days are not only unattractive but unhealthy. If one of those showed up at my door, I would have no interesting in touching her, I would take her somewhere and feed her a sandwhich LOL

Sir Mix a Lot had it right back in the day... Hey Cosmo, Vogue, etc... listen MEN LIKE CURVES!!! No women built like a stick figure is attractive. back in the day when you had the likes of Elle Mcpherson, Cindy Crawford etc.. Were those women trim, yes, but they were athletic and healthy as opposed to being able to see ribs and colarbones... Sorry the fashion industry irritates me..

Your questions arbitrarily stereotype men in negative way apparently based solely on anecdotal evidence. Because some of the men you know may do what you contend does not make your conclusions universal truths.

The fact is not all men do as you suggest, and I have not found any scientific study that postulates what percentage do.

[Naturefreak]

Originally Posted by jerrymichele

Sorry guys, I know that i'm not suppost to be on here, but I need some questions answered. I can never get a straight answer when I actually ask guys my questions.
1) When men are upset, why do they blame their mate if it has nothing to do with them?
I don't believe this applies to all men.Sorry don't know that answer.
2) Why does a man want his real life woman to look like a magazine model?
I don't believe this applies to all men . Speaking for myself and as Timgt5 stated magazine models are beautiful but mostly very thin.
It shouldn't really matter whether they are really thin or really fat.
Right now I'll take what I can get. lol No harm meant to you thin ladies or fat ladies (walking on eggshells)
3) Why do some men get upset when a woman wants to do something for herself, or do something alone by herself?
Some men.Now we're on the right track . Just had to get that in there.lol. Most likely they are insecure and have trust issues.
4) Why do men get jealous when women want to go out with her friends?
Again , I don't believe this applies to all men. But I believe it could be insecurity as well.
If I think of any more questions I will come back and ask.

I hope this helped and I don't really believe you meant to stereotype all men . You're just upset ....I understand. Correct me if I am wrong. You are welcome here anytime by the way.

[jerrymichele]

Originally Posted by TheByzantine

Your questions arbitrarily stereotype men in negative way apparently based solely on anecdotal evidence. Because some of the men you know may do what you contend does not make your conclusions universal truths.

The fact is not all men do as you suggest, and I have not found any scientific study that postulates what percentage do.

Sorry, it wasn't my intentions to do that. I should rephrase to some men.

[jerrymichele]

Sorry, I mean some men. I know that not all men do this. I'm just wanting to figure out some answers for my own type of relationships. This is solely based on what I have observed.

[Shangrala]

Michele~

In a part of your post I believe that you were clear that you were not talking about all men. Because of that I didn't receive all of your post as generalizing your meaning as "all" men. Although, I can understand how some are sensitive to one gender generalizing the other, therefore assumptions are created.

Far be it for me to answer these questions FOR the men, (as I'm not of the gender, myself..lol), but I think some of your questions apply to both sexes, as a person's trait in general.

I think GrayNess did a pretty good job on answering most. And Tim finished where Gray left off..lol.

I think most of your questions regard mostly upon the issues your sweetie has, which seem to be insecurity of self and possibly trust issues? Not sure.
I can personally relate to some of your questions as I used to wonder those very same things throughout my first marriage.

The ex was extremely jealous, (thus very insecure), and throughout the 10 years we were together he would find one reason after the next to use as a means of justifying why MY friends (first all the male ones, then the female), and reasons why I shouldn't do this,or the other...all were not good for "me", (If only I knew then, at that time, what I learned later on.....).
I never gave him reason to be jealous. I "behaved" accordingly for the sake of our relationship. But after years had passed, and I eventually ended up without anything I could call my own, including my own friends, (he "allowed" me to have my family and his friends in my life without his judgement casted....(how thoughtful of him ...lol).

Granted, jealousy is a natural emotion. But when it conducts one's behavior, then in my opinion, it transforms into possessiveness, which is very harmful.

Apparently, Jerry may feel threatened by you seeking self-improvement for fear that once you have obtained the health that you are seeking for yourself, that (because of his insecurity), you might not view him the same way as before. Yet, he has the tendency to hurt your feelings, (intended or not...it still hurts, regardless), by mentioning to you that you aren't the "model material", (I know how this can hurt..happened to me, as well, and it does leave deep, lasting emotional scars).
This behavior of his, (the push in one direction, pull in the other...thus his indecisiveness which stems from his insecurity), isn't intentional. I don't think he's even aware that he does it...or, so it would seem.
Perhaps, you can encourage him into counselling together? Guide him to seeking answers to his own issues. Lord knows, you cannot fixie FOR him, and unfortunately, you will remain the target of his issues so long as he doesn't attend to them himself.

One should not have to continue to make sacrifices for the sake of the other, (especially due to insecurities), JUST to maintain peace between the two. I made that mistake, and lost alot in the process, including my own self.

There has to be a medium found between the two of you...something that is reasonable and you both can accept without much sacrifice for either of you. "The happy Compromise"
So long as he is not willing to meet you halfway, and continue to cast all the responsibility upon you to do the changing (sacrificing) to meet his needs, then you very well may end up in some serious trouble later on. I'd hate for that to happen for you...for either of you.

I hope this works out for the both of you. I know what he means to you.

All the best......
(Hope this helped some)

Shangrala

[Lenny]

Hi and Happy Holidays to all....

I am moving this thread to the General Forum. Our guidelines expect that the mens forum is exclusive to men with the exception of a specific invite to the Ladies in our community.

The same considerations are made in the Womens Forum...

I hope this move does not impede upon the wonderfull discussion taking place here...

Lenny

Sir Mix a Lot had it right back in the day... Hey Cosmo, Vogue, etc... listen MEN LIKE CURVES!!! No women built like a stick figure is attractive.

wow . I'm built like a stick and I think Im fairly beautiful . I feel the need to say that for other women like myself. And no matter how much weight I'd gain I still would not have curves. I was born with an atheletic body .slender build .

attitudes like this are what fuel the breast implant ecomomy .

Jerry M . whats a woman to do?

find a man with a good heart whos attentive ,





Patricia

[50guy]

Originally Posted by jerrymichele

Hey guys, I need some help from you here, but I need some questions answered. I can never get a straight answer when I actually ask guys my questions.
1) When men are upset, why do they blame their mate if it has nothing to do with them?
2) Why does a man want his real life woman to look like a magazine model?
3) Why do some men get upset when a woman wants to do something for herself, or do something alone by herself?
4) Why do men get jealous when women want to go out with her friends?

If I think of any more questions I will come back and ask.

1. Men are macho for the most part and believe they can figure it out so, the fustration level is high, their mate just happens to be the sounding board.

2. I don't expect my woman to look like a super model, Hey we had our day...way back when and we both looked good, life happens.....keep living.

3. I don't know, I'm not the jealous type.

4. I don't know, maybe they are dogs and don't trust their woman because they themselves can't be trusted. I don't have a problem with it.
In fact I encourage her to go out with her friends.

Eric

[50guy]

Originally Posted by auroralso

wow . I'm built like a stick and I think Im fairly beautiful . I feel the need to say that for other women like myself. And no matter how much weight I'd gain I still would not have curves. I was born with an atheletic body .slender build .

attitudes like this are what fuel the breast implant ecomomy .

Jerry M . whats a woman to do?

find a man with a good heart whos attentive ,





Patricia

Patricia, I happen to like the type of woman that has your figure, I just don't think curvy women are undesirable, they are good women too.
It is a matter of preference, I like your body type. It is my preference.
Cheer up kid, some guys like 'em slim, athletic and small breasted.

Eric

I don't know what my body type would be classified as, and I don't want to be catagorized into a specific group either. Curvier women can be just as healthy. But why the need to have separate magazines for plus-size women, and model type women? What irritates me is that I looked at a plus-size magazine which had smaller woman modeling the clothes. Um, DUH, does that make sense to anybody? Why can't they just show the appropriate sized women to wear those appropriate sized clothes, to match her body type. It's like putting a size 16 blouse on a size 2 woman. Stupid! They're not showing a size 16 outfit on a size 16 woman. Plus, if we had our hair and makeup professionally done everyday, don't you all think all women would look that good too? Of course we would. I'd love to see these people without makeup on or their hair not done up. I'm sorry, I just don't like seeing someone's bones sticking out. It can be just as unhealthy to be stick thin too. It makes me cringe. Do people still need to be educated on this kind of thing? I guess so.

[Pomegranate]

Michele, I'm not a guy but I hope you don't mind if I take a crack at those questions.

1. It takes a very self controlled, and very mature human being to not lash out at those around us and blame them when we are in the middle of "upset." I manage it once in a while. Although as a woman I have a natural tendendacy to blame myself first. It's been my experience that many men do not have this problem.

2. It's also been my experience that when women look in the mirror, we see less attractive versions of ourselves. When men look in the mirror they see more attractive versions of themselves. I would do a reality check on him. Get him naked in front of a full length mirror, put the photo of the airbrushed, anorexic model next to him. Ask him if he really thinks he has chance??? I'd lose any guy who put how I look before who I am.

3. He either feels jealous and scared because deep down in his reality centered self he knows he's just as vulnerable as you are: you could find yourself happy to be without him or happy to be with someone else. OR he feels you are inconveniencing him in some way and wants you to be totally centered on him and his needs at all times.

4. Same answer as #3.

[Shangrala]

Well....Wahhhh! (lmao).....

I find this amusing, (why, I don't know), how....this OP started out with seeking q's to some issues bothering her regarding her personal troubles, (specifically directed for men to answer, which they have done wonderfully), into responses on what classifies beauty. Not that I think it shouldn't....All's good. Whichever way this thread goes, no matter to me.
It just blows me away how some take what other's say so personal, when it isn't directed at any ONE particular person.

There are comments on here regarding preferences of the physical which vary...okaaaaay? So, why the replies of offense? I don't get it....lol.

I'm underweight by 25 pounds. Can't help it...just the way I AM. LOL.
My collarbones show, and hip bones, ribcage..You name it, can't help it. And so be IT.
Imma rail. (lol). Older than most here, no doubt, and holding my own quite well, if you ask me.
I'm not offended by those who express their preferences. And can only hope that other's aren't offended by what I have to express, as well. IF there are those who are offended...keep in mind that what I say isn't with YOU in mind.. therefore, there shouldn't BE anything taken offensively?

But, I'm certain that BY expressing how no offense should be taken by anyone in particular WILL be, somehow, taken offensively in it's own right.
Just my 'sense' worth....

(And what makes this all even more amusing, (again, why, I still don't know), is how this reply of mine has derailed this thread even further from the OP's direction....Sorry, Michele. Not my intentions. But you know that already, right?).

Shangrala

[jerrymichele]

Originally Posted by Shangrala

Well....Wahhhh! (lmao).....

I find this amusing, (why, I don't know), how....this OP started out with seeking q's to some issues bothering her regarding her personal troubles, (specifically directed for men to answer, which they have done wonderfully), into responses on what classifies beauty. Not that I think it shouldn't....All's good. Whichever way this thread goes, no matter to me.
It just blows me away how some take what other's say so personal, when it isn't directed at any ONE particular person.

There are comments on here regarding preferences of the physical which vary...okaaaaay? So, why the replies of offense? I don't get it....lol.

I'm underweight by 25 pounds. Can't help it...just the way I AM. LOL.
My collarbones show, and hip bones, ribcage..You name it, can't help it. And so be IT.
Imma rail. (lol). Older than most here, no doubt, and holding my own quite well, if you ask me.
I'm not offended by those who express their preferences. And can only hope that other's aren't offended by what I have to express, as well. IF there are those who are offended...keep in mind that what I say isn't with YOU in mind.. therefore, there shouldn't BE anything taken offensively?

But, I'm certain that BY expressing how no offense should be taken by anyone in particular WILL be, somehow, taken offensively in it's own right.
Just my 'sense' worth....

(And what makes this all even more amusing, (again, why, I still don't know), is how this reply of mine has derailed this thread even further from the OP's direction....Sorry, Michele. Not my intentions. But you know that already, right?).

Shangrala

Thanks Mary. No worries about moving away from the thread. lol, As long as I don't get cussed at, I'm ok. lol, When I posted my thread I never meant for anyone to take it personal. This is only my view of what I see with SOME MEN.

[Michah]

Hi JM,

I am merely assuming......and honestly wondering if you are speaking of a personal experience?

I am right there with you.......I have experienced both good and bad men.....and women.......intimately.

My fiance is wonderful.......I attracted him to me due to the attraction sent out.

When I worked out what I didn't want, I sent out what I DID want......and in accordance with "what goes around, comes around".....it did.

In my desperate experience of times of hurt and betrayal, there is one constant factor.......I get what I think. If I thought I didn't deserve to be treated properly, thats what I got......and it perpetuated the cycle of self-sabotaging and self-flagellating behaviour........it is in the liking and belief of self that others seem to as well.....

Therapy, time and lessons learnt got me to the platform I am now at......it has been painful, agonising and terrifying.......and some days it still is.....

But believe you deserve better, that you are precious and that others deserve YOU.......rather than the other way around.....and you shall receive.....

Cliched? I know.......but for some strange and incomprehensible reason it seems true......

Take good , good care babe......love thyself.......

In stillness,

Michah

I just get tired of looking in the mirror and asking myself, "Why can't I find a nice relationship?" I think I'm decent looking for the most part, and I look at myself and compare me to other women. I don't know why I do this, I hate that I do. I'm just tired of magazines and billboards and tv commercials, and whatever else there is, showing thin women. Thinking that everyone should look like this. Who are these people? God? I don't think so. It gets shoved in our faces in everyday life. The world would be a very boring place if we all looked the same. Shangrala, I understand when you say you can't help your weight. But the way it is today if a woman or man,(preferably seems like women)are alittle overweight, it is their fault. As if they don't exercise, sit around watching tv eating. Maybe they have a medical issue, and they can't lose that weight, who knows what their situation is. I'm just trying to make a point. Nobody talks about thin people like that, like they do heavier people.

I guess what i'm saying is thin woman don't get discriminated against like heavier woman do.

With the exception of the model question, I think that men have the exact same questions about women, especially concerning the issues of doing some things alone and going out with friends.

In my experience this irks women in relationships more than men.

[jerrymichele]

Originally Posted by Michah

Hi JM,

I am merely assuming......and honestly wondering if you are speaking of a personal experience?

I am right there with you.......I have experienced both good and bad men.....and women.......intimately.

My fiance is wonderful.......I attracted him to me due to the attraction sent out.

When I worked out what I didn't want, I sent out what I DID want......and in accordance with "what goes around, comes around".....it did.

In my desperate experience of times of hurt and betrayal, there is one constant factor.......I get what I think. If I thought I didn't deserve to be treated properly, thats what I got......and it perpetuated the cycle of self-sabotaging and self-flagellating behaviour........it is in the liking and belief of self that others seem to as well.....

Therapy, time and lessons learnt got me to the platform I am now at......it has been painful, agonising and terrifying.......and some days it still is.....

But believe you deserve better, that you are precious and that others deserve YOU.......rather than the other way around.....and you shall receive.....

Cliched? I know.......but for some strange and incomprehensible reason it seems true......

Take good , good care babe......love thyself.......

In stillness,

Michah

My bf right now is having some issues. He just started talking to me again. I still have no idea what he was upset about. I have already brought up therapy in the past, so I'm going to do it again in a few days. I don't want to seem to pushy with him. Alot of the questions I have asked is not just solely on my bf. I have seen what my ex has done, and I have seen other men do it. I think that there are some men who try to be really sneaky. In my 20's I use to go out with my friends. I seen men go in to the clubs with wifves, gf's etc. Well one time my friend and I got up to dance, and she was like pat the guys on the butt, but don't let the women see you. Well we were both doing that, and not one of those guys said anything to us. I have seen some men flirt with other women when they are with their signifant other behind their back. Really I'm just trying to figure out the logic behind all of these questions. It's just like when your watching a movie with your guy (meaning some guys) and there is some female nudity in it. Well I don't (in my case) get all upset when my bf see's some boobs, but if it is reversed it's like it's a double standard. I have had some of my friends tell me the same thing.
The blaming goes with both sex's (in some, not all) When I asked the question about being blamed, thats what it feels like. I just wish that in my case we could talk about the anger instead of blowing up about it.
My bf doesn't really say to much about going out with certain people. When I was still talking to my sister, her husband would throw a fit if we went and lunch together. I have had some friends like this. When I was married to my ex it was the same way.

[Michah]

Originally Posted by jerrymichele

My bf right now is having some issues. He just started talking to me again. I still have no idea what he was upset about. I have already brought up therapy in the past, so I'm going to do it again in a few days. I don't want to seem to pushy with him. Alot of the questions I have asked is not just solely on my bf. I have seen what my ex has done, and I have seen other men do it. I think that there are some men who try to be really sneaky. In my 20's I use to go out with my friends. I seen men go in to the clubs with wifves, gf's etc. Well one time my friend and I got up to dance, and she was like pat the guys on the butt, but don't let the women see you. Well we were both doing that, and not one of those guys said anything to us. I have seen some men flirt with other women when they are with their signifant other behind their back. Really I'm just trying to figure out the logic behind all of these questions. It's just like when your watching a movie with your guy (meaning some guys) and there is some female nudity in it. Well I don't (in my case) get all upset when my bf see's some boobs, but if it is reversed it's like it's a double standard. I have had some of my friends tell me the same thing.
The blaming goes with both sex's (in some, not all) When I asked the question about being blamed, thats what it feels like. I just wish that in my case we could talk about the anger instead of blowing up about it.
My bf doesn't really say to much about going out with certain people. When I was still talking to my sister, her husband would throw a fit if we went and lunch together. I have had some friends like this. When I was married to my ex it was the same way.

HHhmmm yes, there does seem to be a double standard in the general population.......men "seem" to get away with more than women......or, women are criticised and ostracised for displaying "male" behaviour.......I have often been accused of that by other women. I have followed my instincts, been aggressive, said no, said yes, and not listened to anybody......maybe I am a little stubborn, no? I have also acquiesced, sacrificed myself, lain prostrate in an act of supplication to avoid danger and so on.......so I don't really know......I think the thoughts of the many(the population) are outweighing the needs of the few(us) in this topic......in other words what we are brought up with and through experience shapes what we belive.......but history is fluid especially when it comes to humanity and human behaviour. Lets forget the stereotypes and concentrate on what WE want.......

All I do know is that if your boyfriend is not respectful, compassionate, observes physical/emotional/mental boundaries etc. then that is his issue, not yours. It is not a reflection of you. I am sorry if I sound simplistic, for relationships are anything but simple, but my words are for you......you are the #1 in this equation. If you are respectful and laid back and are willing to respect his spiritual freedom, then you have every right to ask the same.

I am a little biased babe, I am a terrible misanthropist and cynic.......but I am also willing to concede that there are wonderful people out there......and we just got to wait patiently, building on our wonderful selves, in preparation for......simplicity and joy.

Take good care of #1.........you.

In stillness,

Michah

[susan888]

There is a lid for every pot. Tall, short, skinny, curvy, etc..etc...

Hard to find....but if you find one that fits...well..it's awesome!!! Be yourself and don't feel like you have to mold into something that's not you. We are all different!

Believe me...I am not model material! Never have been..5"11, big boned dutch girl. My husband thinks I am a goddess and I see myself now like I wish I could have seen myself when I was younger (46 now).

[Jess Petty]

Netherlands dutch or Belgian dutch?
im Belgian dutch on my mothers side

[susan888]

Netherlands Dutch!