[cellosrock]

I just had this thought and figured I'd post it here for a little discussion. Why is it that when someone hears of or sees a good dad, it's almost shocking to them? Are there really that many awful dads, that to find a good one is like finding gold? I am lucky enough to have a good dad (not perfect by any means) and a great husband who is also a great dad. Am I just so lucky I can't see "the real world"? Custody cases almost always favor the mother because its assumed the father wouldn't/couldn't/shouldn't raise kids. Why?

Good point but my own dad is a monster and should never of had kids, My husband is a brilliant dad, I think it is because the mothers actually give birth to the kids so it is different, Also some women have issues with men maybe?

[Irreplaceable]

History lesson 101: Think about this...Back in the day, men took care of their family...Regardless of the circumstances....Men could or would do whatever it is that he wanted to do in the streets, but he would always take care of home and always take care of his family no matter what...If he cheated, he cheated, but he would still take care of home...When drugs hit the scene pretty hard way back in the day, THAT is when things started to go down hill...Family values went outta the window...Drugs took over families....Women were becoming more of the norm for head of households...And it hasn't been the same since...Mens values are not the same as they were back in the day...And that's not to say that men don't have values now...It's just as a whole, the values aren't the same...Now you have women raising boys into men...A woman can't teach a boy how to be a man...And a part of being a man is knowing how to take care of your family and more specifically your kids...There are not father figures in households as much as they used to be...It's a repeating cycle...So, when you do find a man that is doing what he is suppose to do, it's suprising because it's not the norm...You will run into more "men" who father kids but don't take care of them...Or they may take care of financially but outside of that, they don't do much...Again, I'm not saying that the majority of men aren't fathers, but I can only speak on what's in my community...

I could go deeper into it but I'm at work on a time constraint..But i will tell you this...It is a FACT that alot of it has to do with history and the government...Drugs were put into our community to destroy...And destroy is what it did....It's a trickle effect...It may sound weird or outlandish, but let me tell you...I have watched I don't know how many documentaries on History Channel, TLC, etc that directly shows the correlation between the two....

Edit: My response may have gone a little too in depth...But I will tell you this, from experience I have came across both good and bad dads...But it is more common for a man to spread his seed and not take care of them or be in their lives as a man should....So when you do meet a good father, it's literally like, "Wow, they do exist"....In my book, it says alot if you don't take care of your babies...Keep it moving, I want no dealings with you...Because it speaks volumes about your character...

[ocd5mom]

I have to say that I agree a little with both of you...Overall though I think it has a lot to do with the generation gap. Take my generation (part of the NOW generation), we have been taught that we don't need to do what is needed to have a good life, only what is needed to get by...and most of us don't even do that...Its hard to imagine my little girl's dad being a part of her life after so long on our on, but MY daddy, her gradfather, has always been outstanding. He is helping raise my nephew and is a great role model for my baby girl also. He has always done what was needed to help us out, even when we didn't deserve or when he didn't have the means. A good FATHER is hard to find, but sperm doners are a dime a dozen, especially in this younger generation. That sounds harsh I guess, but good men ARE hard to find, especially when they live in a society that allows them to be less than what they ought to be.

Good point though, its amazing how often we are surprised by a good man.

[eskielover]

A good FATHER is hard to find, but sperm doners are a dime a dozen, especially in this younger generation. That sounds harsh I guess, but good men ARE hard to find, especially when they live in a society that allows them to be less than what they ought to be.

Wondering why we allow them to be sperm doners without making sure they have the quality we want them to have as a Dad? Why as women don't we take more care & be more selective about who we waste our time on? Of course, if we were selective about the men we allowed into our life & made sure they were quality HUSBANDS before they became sperm doners (which is happening all too often in the younger generations also).......then the guys would have to go without sex unless they shaped up their actions. Women would be better off in the long run & it's the long run that really counts because it's the long run that we are complaining about there being hardly any quality men to be fathers any more. Sounds to me also like the sexual revolution caused women to be more interested in their sexual desire than the desire to find a good man to be a good husband & a good father.

There are still some wonderful guys out there who hold to their moral & responsible values.....yes, they are few & far between because there isn't any pressure on the others to do anything but get by & get whatever pleases them.

[Feiticeira]

Women usually get custody of children because they gave birth and it's generally assumed that mothers have a stronger attachment to their children than men. Also, it's still considered the women's role to take care of children while fathers usually do activities with children that include games and fun, women are expected to make sure kids are clean, fed, and so on.

Single moms are becoming more and more common because in communities in which poverty rates are up men are more likely be in prison. Single moms and children are the most at risk people for poverty, it's sad but true.

Also, I think that women have become more egalitarian and have more financial freedom than they use to so it's more common for a women to leave her husband if she is discontent with the situation, while before she was just kind of stuck with a horrible husband.

To be honest I don't think the men are getting worse per say, I just think that women just don't put up with it anymore. I mean if you think about it, it's only recently that spousal rape has even become a crime (in the U.S), it's more of an awareness then some sort of plague that hit families. Or maybe it's both i don't know.

[Kobiyashi]

I guess I don't have a good answer to your question, but maybe if enough people respond we can get a consensus. I am shocked each and every time I meet someone who has a good relationship with their parents. I used to assume that everyone was being treated at home the same way I was, and even though I understand now that my home life was extreme and illegal, emotionally I still can't believe that other families aren't violent and scary. I think that as far as the custody cases, it's an example of a few bad people ruining it for other fathers who want to take care of their children. Also, the really bad parenting examples are publicized while good parents never make the news.

This is an interesting thread for me to read. My father just passed away December 3rd. I'm thinking about his life now, and where he went wrong. My bro and I lost touch with him after we became teenagers. I'm nearly 30 now. Just went to his mom's house to drop off his ashes. His whole side of the family are almost like strangers to me. She lent me a video of when he was little. If only I could get a VCR to work around here. I'm thinking I could've really used my father even more so when I got older. I honestly don't think he was a bad man, or even a bad father. He tried his best within the circumstances. His father "taught" him to hit women........that's why my mom divorced him. If only he could've learned how to control his behavior when the time was right. He then drank and drank to deal with his failures and losses. This is what ultimately lead to his death. He tried to turn it around, but it was too late, his body crapped out. I'm so sad that him and I were practically strangers too because I think I'm like my dad.....his good qualities at least. In a way though.......I believe that my parents' downfalls have shaped me into who I am today. I've really been able to learn from their mistakes. On the other hand........one thing I've noticed with my mom and brother is that my mom tends to baby him. I just think this leads to more immature men who cannot step up when it becomes time for them to be fathers. I think you have to teach young boys very early on what it means to be a real man. You have to give them responsibility and teach them the rewards of fulfilling their responsibilities because otherwise they will just want to stay boys forever, or course.

[ocd5mom]

Originally Posted by Aquarius8

This is an interesting thread for me to read. My father just passed away December 3rd. I'm thinking about his life now, and where he went wrong. My bro and I lost touch with him after we became teenagers. I'm nearly 30 now. Just went to his mom's house to drop off his ashes. His whole side of the family are almost like strangers to me. She lent me a video of when he was little. If only I could get a VCR to work around here. I'm thinking I could've really used my father even more so when I got older. I honestly don't think he was a bad man, or even a bad father. He tried his best within the circumstances. His father "taught" him to hit women........that's why my mom divorced him. If only he could've learned how to control his behavior when the time was right. He then drank and drank to deal with his failures and losses. This is what ultimately lead to his death. He tried to turn it around, but it was too late, his body crapped out. I'm so sad that him and I were practically strangers too because I think I'm like my dad.....his good qualities at least. In a way though.......I believe that my parents' downfalls have shaped me into who I am today. I've really been able to learn from their mistakes. On the other hand........one thing I've noticed with my mom and brother is that my mom tends to baby him. I just think this leads to more immature men who cannot step up when it becomes time for them to be fathers. I think you have to teach young boys very early on what it means to be a real man. You have to give them responsibility and teach them the rewards of fulfilling their responsibilities because otherwise they will just want to stay boys forever, or course.

I agree with you, but just to take your statement about "Young Boys" one step further, I am a firm believer in the idea that this applys to both sexes, but maybe men more because they tend to drift into more immaturity if allowed. This isn't to say we women don't, but scientifically speaking women do tend to mature in most ways a lot faster than men, so overall I think it is better not to pamper children in general to the extent that they believe the world owes them and that they are above everything and everyone. I've seen this happen and it saddens me to think that children today are being taught, in some respects, to belive in their own superiority to the point that they overlook the fact that we are all equal, at least in the ways of the world: everyone can be hurt, everyone dies, everyone has troubles and hardships and joys and pains. Basically we are all equal, whether we are male or female, and I think younger generations have lost this fact, and along with that comes immaturity and irresponsiblity.

[Perna]

I had a good father and married a good man and father as a result. I think our father's attitude and behavior growing up can have a lot of influence on the kind of man we women pick to become involved with. I know I paid a whole lot of attention to how my husband treated the other women in his life before I married him.

[LylaJean]

I agree with you, Perna. My dad was great, in fact he works out of a home office while my mom has always had a fulltime job out of home, so he raised my sister and I the majority of the time. He supported us and spent a lot of time with us, cooking and cleaning, but also playing. Since I watched him and respected him, I knew what I was looking for in a husband. In a lot of cases with my dad's generation, the husbands were working all of the time and weren't around much to be examples to their boys in how to conduct themselves, especially with their wives. And their daughters watched that too, and saw what to expect for themselves. I think that a lot of self confidence and self worth can be instilled in a daughter with a good relationship with her father, and when that relationship isn't there it's a lot harder for her to relate to and find men who will take care of her. Does any of that make sense?

Originally Posted by Perna

I had a good father and married a good man and father as a result. I think our father's attitude and behavior growing up can have a lot of influence on the kind of man we women pick to become involved with. I know I paid a whole lot of attention to how my husband treated the other women in his life before I married him.

I completely agree. I actually grew up around many, many wonderful fathers in my life. Yes, I ran into one who wasn't (not my own), but literally every other man I came into contact with was a wonderful husband and father: my father, my grandfathers, my uncles, my best friend's father, her grandfather, many admirable men in my church who were like family to me, the father's of family friends, etc., etc. I grew up knowing what a good husband and father looked like, and I definitely applied that standard in choosing my own husband who isn't perfect, but no one would argue that he isn't a fantastic father to our boys.

But I think it can work the other way too. My husband had a horrible mother (and father), and he managed to find someone who is completely opposite of his upbringing (and he is completely opposite of his parents). It is like he was searching for the antithesis of his family experience. And he has become completely different from his family. He is a loving, sensitive husband and an involved, supportive dad. He's not perfect. Clearly his upbringing has left scars, but his faults are mostly in his thinking, not his reality.

[cellosrock]

Good thoughts. I think two things stood out too me.

1. In general, we have become a more selfish society which leads men to not take care of their families they way they used to.

2. We women are more responsible than we want to believe. If we accept bad behavior, then why should we be surprised when we get it? So much is learned in the home and when there is not a positive relationship example for children to see, how can we expect them to just know how to create one?

[Glasgow girl]

I have a father ( i,m 41 now - yesterday actually) who was a very good provider for his family so took his responsibilities very seriously as far as that is concerned. However, he never was - still isn,t - interested in getting to know any of his children. He had 3, of which i,m the oldest. my mum swung from babying to over critical and appeared to be in a constant mood all through my childhood and adulthood.
I moved away from them the first chance that arose and never intended to go home again. I had a daughter 12 years ago to a cold selfish man who didnt really want to be with me. After almost 5 years of hell, self harm and an overdose i split from him and tried to get on with my life - my daughter was only 18 months.
My mum persuaded me to move close home so that she could help with my daughter 6 years ago so i moved in with them in order to save some money for a house.
Within the first week i felt as bad as i ever had when i lived there. My very presence seemed to annoy my mum and she criticised me at every opportunity. When it all boiled over - we rowed and my dad took her side - i had to leave and take my daughterinto homeless accomodation. Almost 2-3 days after it happened i had to give up my new job as they refused to watch my daughter after school to allow me to work , knowing full well i would then be unemployed. the whole point of moving nearer home was for them to help and i ended up unable to work. Within the first week in our bed and breakfast my mum had turned up at the door asking to speak to me trying to smooth things over but i was too angry - she told everyone that i was making her ill.
I did speak to them within a few months but i have never got over it. They watched my daughter when i did night shift etc. but i still have no relationship with them. My mum shows an interest in my daughter life but still treats me with disdain - she is uncomfortable around me. My dad has never attended anything to do with my daughter and has little or no interest in any of us. I accepted that this was his way and didnt think about it much anymore until the weekend when he happily went to my niece's nativity show. My daughter was so hurt and it has opened old wounds for me. I generally manage to be around them by never looking for anything emotional. I mentioned to my mum that my daughter was hurt at her grandfather and she immediately defended him. We ened up rowing and i walked out on my own birthday lunch. I cant seem to grow out of this hurt little girl who feels her parents dont care. I could tell you lots of things that have happened but i think its better to summarise by saying that i feel stuck with this feeling of rejection. i cant seem to move on in my life. Inside is all these hurt feelings that cant get out as i,m not allowed to discuss them with my parents - they blame me for all the rows. I feel so desperately sad a lot of the time. I have very little else in my life as i,ve let my friends go, avoided relationships and just focussed on bringing up my daughter. Sorry to be so self pitying but i cant seem to shake it off.