[radio_flyer]

It upsets me how AJ's dad talks about AJ. Saying things like he doesn't want anything to do with AJ..That AJ is a loser and a bum. He says such ugly things about AJ that cuts to the "core" of his being.......

I don't believe in tearing one down especially to the degree the way AJ's dad is talking. Yes, AJ, well, we all know he hasn't being doing what a 30 year old man should be doing.. And yes a lot of negative things can be said about AJ. But there are also positives. The negatives don't out weigh the positives. Just AJ took the easy way, when in many ways, we paved the path for AJ to take advantage of not having to be responsible..

When I mention to AJ's dad that when AJ moved in this house, he should have to pay part of the mortage. This would give AJ a sense of ownership and re sponsiblilty.. His dad did not agree and when I bring it up his dad shuts me out... What can you get when everything is given to someone without expecting "responsibility". You get "nothing". Exactly what AJ did, nothing. He'd hold out his hand and his dad would put "dollars" in it and AJ would go on his merry way to the clubs...

I pretty much have let go....ANd letting AJ find his own way. Thank goodness his dad doesn't give him any more money. I don't know what the future has in store for AJ. I just don't feel it would benefit anyone to tear them down to the core of their being. Calling them losers, trash, a piece of s**t doesn't really solve anything. The only good thing his dad did was stop giving him money. He even gave AJ his car insurance bill, which is a good thing.... The name calling I don't agree with.. AM I still enabling or being too sensitive?

[lynn P.]

I agree with you that AJ doesn't deserve to be verbally abused and I hope you and AJ's dad don't end up on opposite ends because it's important you both be united. After all these years AJ is used to both of you enabling him. I think your ex thinks he giving tough love but he bordering on abuse. The problem is, if AJ gets the senses you sympathize with him, this will reel him back into feeling safe doing nothing again. If he thinks he getting the short end of the stick now, he won't get the motivation to survive on his own.

I think ideally he should have to totally support himself, with living expenses and personal expenses - even not living with you. If he can't pay the mortgage, then he'll have to find a place to rent. I know it hurts but you shouldn't show you feel sorry for him IMO. Is he looking for a job yet?

[bebop]

hon sometimes you just gotta practice tough love and trust me it is really hard to do but in the end they really do appreciate it. I had to end up throwing my son out when he was 18. years later he was sitting with me and started crying and telling me thank you. it is never easy. you can't and dad can't keep giving in to him.
I am here if you want to talk about it.

[radio_flyer]

Lynn... First, AJ had to earn some money to fix his car, which he has by fixing computers. So this week he gets he car back.. Umm, AJ said he is going to start a training program this week and when he passes the test he will have a job.. I want to believe AJ on this, but I am not sure if he will do this. Oh, I don't think AJ's dad says the things to AJ's face that he says to me about AJ. It just upsets me when he says such ugly things...Yes, AJ's dad has all the right in the world to be angry with AJ. He pretty much ignores AJ when they are in the same room.. His anger I guess is "rejection"... I guess for me, thinking "rejection from family" is maybe one the most painful things.. Anger I can deal with.. Rejection is questionable... Here we go again... Are these "MY issues" and not AJ's... Odd that this popped up... I never felt "part or accepted" by my own family. Yet, I found acceptance from friends and even co-workers........odd how this "mental health stuff" points it finger at me............. ugh

[radio_flyer]

bebop...... if this is tough love, it is really hard...esp on me.. Looks like I am starting to weaken.. not as tough as I thought I was...I want what is best for AJ...AM thinking we should have done what you did with your son years ago...IS good knowing that things worked out for you son..and this tough love works...

Family... parents... children...life... success.. failure... all so compliated..

Thank you so much for being there fore me Bebop.. I guess the key to this is "support systems" and "being on the same page'... Somewhere I read, "love doesn't hurt"... But I guess that isn't true.. Because love does hurt...Tough love is hard.. I must try to be stronger...It is only for AJ's good.... I am a push over for sure... but I won't claim that... I will no longer be a softie, push over...

[sabby]

(((((((( radio_flyer )))))))))

Being a parent of a child is tough, whether they are 10, 20, 30, or 50. When trying to change behaviors, both yours as in being tougher and his as in making him to be more responsible, I think one has to go at it one step at a time. Trying to change the whole picture at one time is just too much and terrifically overwhelming.

Maybe you can try changing one thing at a time. As an example, maybe you want AJ to pick up his dirty clothes and put them in the hamper and he's refusing to do that. Normally, you go around picking up everything and washing it for him, folding it and putting it away for him. Where is the benefit to AJ to do this on his own? There is none. So just telling him to do it, isn't going to work. You would have to tell him one time, to please pick up his clothing and put it in the hamper. If he doesn't do it, when you are doing laundry, leave his stuff lying around and don't do his laundry. That is the natural consequence for him not picking up his clothing when he was asked to do so. This should now give him some motivation to pick up his clothing and put it in the hamper.

From there, once that is accomplished, you can proceed to the next step of him doing his own laundry. Ask him to bring his hamper of dirty clothing to the washer on your laundry day. Maybe even ask him to sort it. If he doesn't do that, then don't go and get the hamper yourself. Don't do his laundry. Once again, there is now some motivation for AJ to bring his hamper to the washer and sort the clothes. (if he wants clean clothes that is LOL) Then you work on getting him to load his dirty clothes into the washer and adding detergent (show him how much he needs) and turning the washer on, so on and so forth.

I think you get my drift on that example. Change takes steps to accomplish. Both you and he need to make those changes. He may go kicking and screaming in the beginning because change and responsibility are hard to take when someone hasn't had to behave in those terms. Be patient with yourself and him through this process. You may have some stressful times through it, but when he realizes that you mean what you say, he will come around.

I truly think that small, subtle changes are the way to go with AJ at this point. Throwing all kinds of changes at him would be like throwing him to the wolves at this point. You both have a lot of past behaviors to change and it takes time and effort.

I wish you both all the best!


sabby

[radio_flyer]

Thanks sabby.. Your laundry example is a good one.. Actually, I don't pick up his clothes or do his laundry. In fact, I hate how he washes his clothes. He mixes his white t-shirts and white socks with black clothes, which means all of his "whites" are an ugly gray. I couldn't stand it and would bleach his whites. I have since stopped doing that and figured if he doesn't mind wearing gray t-shirts, well then I don't mind either...

I don't cook or pick up after him. I pretty much stay in the basement. Is cleaner there.. grins... The biggest thing and the best thing so far is his dad stopped giving him money.. This is a good thing....

I think I had a weak moment. I know what his dad is doing is the best way. JUst when I mention to his dad any positive thing AJ may have done, his dad brushes me off and lashes out ugly things about AJ and that bothers me.......Actually his dad doesn't believe a word he says..and he has reasons not to believe AJ.. .... anyway.......Guess AJ might deserve some of the things his dad says.. and some things he says is uncalled for....Guess all his dad wants for AJ , as I also want for AJ is to get a job...That isn't asking too much of AJ.... I need to stop feeling sorry for AJ and let him grow up.. Gessh, he isn't a child..

Am glad I started this thread.. It put me back on track...Sometimes I fall off the fence....

Be kind to yourself, radio_flyer.

[KathyM]

((Radio Flyer))

Maybe you could ask your ex-husband to stop talking badly about AJ to you. It would upset me too if my husband spoke so negatively about my child. IMO, it serves no purpose and only reinforces bad behavior (but I don't believe in coddling either).

It's not necessary for him to say those things to you because you....of ALL people...know how many times AJ has fallen. You don't need the reminder, and you don't need the extra emotional burden. Insulting AJ in his conversations with you won't help AJ learn how to walk on his own OR find a job.

[radio_flyer]

Thanks Byz.. I'm trying..

[radio_flyer]

KathyM...Might be better if I just don't mention anything about AJ to his dad for awhile. Silence just might be golden at this point..This way I won't have to hear the negative talk. To be honest, AJ hasn't really done that much to be bragging to his dad.

Guess when I fall off the fence all logic and reasoning falls off too...Not sure exactly why that happens.. When my "I guess it is feelings" change, everything else changes with it.. shrugs shoulders.... Good thing is, I'm back on track...

Just adding this... I have asked AJ's dad to not say those awful things to me about AJ and he either hangs up or gets angry with me... His dad is just way to upset with him.. Sometimes we are on the same page, sometimes not.