Got a question.

Does anyone know how to stop or call the bluff of a manipulator?? I'd sure like some ideas!

Would need more information to help

would love to know too....

Really, I think it is best not to try to call their bluff. If you do that you are still being drawn into their world. Best thing you can do for yourself when you recognise this going on is to turn around and step away. The manipulator won't get the satisfaction of any reaction from you, and he'll learn that you won't respond to those tactics and move on to someone else. If you're lucky.

I am of course speaking of own experiences with my dad here, and we are talking VERY deep manipulation, for attention. Whenever I tried to make peace with him, if I tried to discuss what I needed from him calmly and rationally, he would start to cry. He would normally do that as a tactic for attention, instead of dealing with the issue, so I would walk away.

If I became angry and called him on something, he would just backbend and come up with other excuses. If I wouldn't go along with it, he would just feed that into his negative energy stockpile and use it to harbor sympathy and attention from some other person. ("Oh, my son won't speak to me, whoa is me!") And he is very good at it, he has tons of followers, and everyone believes him. I think part of it is because he lies about things that are so large and taboo for jokes that people couldn't possibly imagine someone lying about it. Plus he follows through... if he claims he has an illness, he'll consult with doctors, check into the hospital, then make everyone feel sad for him because he was in the hospital. If someone pushes the issue with the doctors results, he just turns it around to get more sympathy, stupid doctors couldn't find the problem.

So I've learned just to stay away.

The last time I saw him, he was in the hospital. I went to visit. He was giving me sob stories. I was reacting without emotion, but engaging in the conversation.

He whined about how he gets dizzy when he drives. So I tell him he really shouldn't be driving, it is dangerous to himself and to others. He counters by telling me how, no, it isn't a problem, because when he feels that way he pulls over to the side of the road and rests his eyes for 20 minutes until he feels better. And if it doesn't go away (I pushed it) he calls someone to pick him up.

He complains about how he hurt his leg tripping over the vaccuum cleaner, and it still hurts, but the doctors can't find anything wrong. I tell him that is why he has to clean up the house... he is bound to hurt himself again with all of that clutter! (see "The House"). He says, no it wasn't the clutter, he left the vacuum there to answer the door and then forgot it was there. Such a shame because he is having trouble remembering things now.

So at one point one of my suggestions much have touched a nerve. He was obviously upset that I wasn't being drawn into his manipulation, so he started to get weepy and apologized and said the doctor told him he had cancer.

Now... the day before I visited my dad in the hospital, I called his doctor to find out how he was. The doctor told me the good news, they tested him for cancer and he came up negative. Dad has no idea that I was in touch at all with the doctors, obviously.

So this was not only a bold faced lie... it wasn't a lie drawn out of thin air or stretching the truth... like turning "I think I have cancer" into "I have cancer" this was a direct and diliberate lie.

That's the point where I told him I had to go, turned and walked out. I had perfect opportunity to call him on it then and there... but he would have started crying out of embarrasement from being caught in a lie (or had some other excuse) and I would have gotten upset and started an argument.

As we always say here, we have to make our own choices. It wasn't even a matter of getting into an argument with him. I don't want to give my body even the one molecule of stressed induced chemicals having any sort of reaction to this. I wasn't angry, I didn't want to "call him on it" I just knew that the thing for me was to not get drawn in AT ALL and just walk away from it. BELIEVE ME that is difficult for me to do. I am a perfectionist and always have the urge to "always be right" and here was an opportunity to have the last word. But it wouldn't have been the last word. I would be expecting satisfaction but would have only gotten more aggravation.

So I guess the answer to your question is "You don't, you get down off a duck!"

online or in real life. In real life I turn the tables on them. for example a so called friend living in another state called me claiming that she had recieved an adoption form regarding my son. I know this person thrives on creating chaos. for she has used other situations usually health issues for attention. her daughters are grown up enough now that they don't have alot of "health problems" she has basically exhausted health problems with herself since she has been diagnosed with a real health problem - multiple sclerosis and she does not like it. It was only a matter of time before she tried something different. only what she chose blew up in her face. Every March my sons and my case goes before the judge for review to make sure everything on the case is being done for my son. on top of that every 6 months there is a court hearing called Citizen Review board meeting which is basically the same as a court hearing for review except there is no judge and the board members are selected from the community like jury selection. Well this friend did not know that in March My lawyer asked on record about termination of parental rights because here if a child is in foster care a year that is the law. All sides my lawyer, sons lawyer, and DHS all stated no termination of parental rights. My son is going to stay in foster care until he is 18. He's too violent to come home and after seeing his therapy records I agree right now he needs residential treatment programs. This was discussed again as a formality at the september CRB. So when this friend called claiming to have an adoption paper for my son I knew right away she was just trying to manipulate me and cause chaos. So I demanded she find that paper and read it to me and I grabbed my court papers and told her I wanted her to tell me who signed it because I was going to report that person for breaching federal laws. she asked what I meant and I told her being my son is a minor his records are sealed so the DHS person who sent her the paper is going to lose their job just like a past caseworker on our case did for breach of HIPPA privacy law. She claimed she didn't know where this paper was and wanted to hang up to find it. I refused to hang up and made her look all the while I told her that my son was actively running away from the residential so it also could be a possibility that he ran and someone else besides the residential has him so I have to report this to DHS, my lawyer and his lawyer so they can varify one that paper and two that he is still at the treatment facility. then I let her go to make those calls. I of course did not. I let her stew for about an hour then called her back and asked if she found that paper and told her my lawyer diefinately wants a copy of it and becuase I am going to have to go to court for termination of parental rights as soon as possible so I really needed that paper. She started crying and I told her crying wasn't going to fix this situation. By her recieving that paper many laws were broken and it doesn't just affect me. it affects both lawyers, DHS, and the judge that issued that paper.On top of that because she recieved a paper to adopt my son and my son is in DHS care it means that DHS has to interview her and her girls and determine if her home is appropiate. She asked if that meant her home for her girls. I told her to think about it if her home is not acceptable for a home for my son what does that tell you about them thinking its accetpable for her girls. then I told her I had to go. I left it at that for the rest of the night then the next morning I called her and asked how she was and if she found that paper. She said she hadn't slept all night and no she didn't then appologized to me saying she didn't mean to get me all upset. I told her Im not upset I'm p'oed because in March during court and at the september CRB it was decided no termination of parental rights, my son would be staying in foster care/residential treatment centers until he is 18. and then I read my court paper to her and told her I did not appreciate what she attemped to pull trying to cause me problems and that if she wanted to create problems in her own life for attention go for it this situation will gladly offer her attention called years of jail time for fraud and losing her girls 2 to the system and 1 to the father. and then I hung up. This person usually calls me weekly and I have not recieved a health problem or other calls from her in three weeks and I don't expect any for a LONG time and then I have caller ID and haven't decided if I will answer her call when it does come.

On line I go with my gut feelings. I know that since this isn't face to face the person on the other end may not be who they portay themselves to be. so I look for things for example I have a life time of being abused. I know an abuser isolates a person so anytime I see someone working to isolate a person by only posting to that one person or repeatedly targeting the upset or weeker members for private chats and PM's that rings my isolation bells. I also look at the attitude of the person if someont tells a person not to post or PM or chat with them and the person persisits I know that person in real life most likely does not take no for an answer when is another real time "abuser bell". I also look for patterns - conficting statements and then cover the ***** routines and language or words that a person of that age, profession or lack of profession. All these things add up to whether or not in my gut I can trust that person. if it turns out my gut says no I dont have anything to do with that person - don't acknowlege their posts to me or answer their PM's eventually with my not giving them the attention they want they leave me alone.

Oh that's a great story myself. I can picture her just squirming in her chair! I know I said above about "not getting satisfaction" but that was my situation with my dad... from your story it feels really satisfying but the most important thing is that she stopped calling you.

Who knows, maybe she turned herself in for the glamour and sympathy and attention of being in jail!

I have a friend who's sister was dating a real BSer. At one point there was this HUGE bragging thing at a family get together about how he was buying her diamond earrings. Well Xmas came and no earrings. Obviously the point was to brag about them at that earlier event and everyone would forget about it by the time the holiday came. But not my friend. She kept asking all night "Oh! So where are the earrings!!! I want to see them!" and got some story about how they were on layaway.

But my friend does not give up. At every single family event for months, everytime she saw them, she asked about the earrings, all "excited" to see them. Yep she wore them down, and had lots of fun for herself in the process. Eventually her sister admitted something like the car repairs were her earrings or something.

What I had in mind was more to the effect of say, there's a group of four friends. One of them is a manipulator so she lies to one friend to get another to do or not do something... Or she lies to two of them about the same thing trying to turn them against the fourth as a means of controlling that fourth friend, because she's not going to go away.

How to you bust the liar? How do you make the others see and understand that she makes a big deal out of nothing by lying and when she doesn't get the desired effect, she lies again but to the closest friend enlisting their help.

Is that clear enough?

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
Best thing you can do for yourself when you recognise this going on is to turn around and step away.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post"> The above quote is from one of Dexter's posts. I think it's very important when dealing with a manipulator or anyone else who uses any kind of control tactics on you. There are a lot of control freaks IRL and online, imo.

Sometimes, taking your ball and going home is the best thing you can do for yourself. Let the others play their stupid games without you. I can't resist letting the others know that I'm on to them when it happens to me. I don't know if that's good but it's me.

Yeah, stepping away is good... except when it's your own family. And of course, if you tell them you're on to them, they deny it vehemently and YOU come out the bad guy!

Hit them with a baseball bat?

(T____T) I'm sorry mommy...

LMAO!!! I'd love to, Sweety, but then I'd be in trouble for sure! LOLOL

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