Generational? Socio-economical? Or just rude?

Let me tell you the story behind the story. I grew up dirt poor, while Mike has been comfortably middle-class his entire life. He has never been homeless, on any kind of government assistance, or even in the position to have to rent an apartment as opposed to owning a house. I was a welfare child and grew up to be a welfare mother, because I didn't know any other lifestyle. My children, because of poor marriage choices on my part, spent half their childhoods in foster care, and know what it's like to go without. Today the older one is 27 and on disability for mental health reasons. The younger one is almost 26, a single mother, currently living on government assistance, but going to school and working. I know I didn't give them enough survival tools, because I didn't have any to give them.

I moved to Washington from my home state of Kentucky 4 1/2 years ago to be with Mike, who I had met online. It was a goofy, crazy move, but it worked, and I ended up marrying him. Our 3rd wedding anniversary is coming up. About a year after I moved here, my younger daughter followed while pregnant with her second child. (She had miscarried the first.) The father of her baby, plus his three older children from a previous marriage, came out with her. We put them all up, until they could find their own place. Eventually they did but the state came and got all of the children, and they took Alana right out of the hospital when she was born. Because their father was and is an abusive creep, he lost parental rights to the older three, who have since been adopted by other families. The *ONLY* reason my daughter regained custody of Kadoka and Alana is because she is no longer with him, and he is allowed only supervised visits. In Washington, I've heard, they cannot terminate parental rights of only one parent, they have to do both, so this is the best they can do about my grandchildren's father.

My other daughter moved out here just about a month ago, right around the time we bought our dream house. We're selling her the mobile home we had lived in before. She is in a clubhouse program similar to this one to help her become able to work. For help with house payments, she looked for roommates among clubhouse members who needed housing. Consequently, all of the friends she has made so far come from a pretty needy standpoint.

Which brings us to today.

I suppose my daughters feel that since my lifestyle is now so far above what it used to be, they are entitled to ride my coattails. Both of them have removed food from our refrigerator without permission, as has often been done in our family. Any time one family member has more than another, the unspoken policy has been "open fridge," until everybody has the same amount. (Which in practice is "little to nothing.") Mike didn't grow up that way, but since my daughters did, they thought nothing of it. We've had to have some family discussions about that. We're also most definitely not running a soup kitchen for my oldest daughter's roommates. Our house payments have doubled since we moved.

Today my oldest was here with her two roommates, because she needed their help carrying the laundry she brought with her. In exchange for use of the laundry facilities, she vacuumed the floor, which I cannot do. One of the roommates came into our home office and parked at the computer, without asking first, and daughter went to the kitchen and cooked a meal for the three of them. The roommates spent most of their time here on the internet. Daughter tried to rein them in, telling them our generation is shocked at such behavior. They were here for several hours, until the last load of laundry (which I assume was theirs as well as hers) was finished in the dryer.

One of the roommates (who had asked me if I could spare cigarette money, which I did not) answered that it is not generational at all. He says he knows people our age who take the attitude of, "You've been here for five minutes. If you leave hungry, it's your own fault." Daughter tells me that among her generation, this is just how they do at each other's houses. We've also discussed the entitlement mentality, which daughter has studied and has found more prominent among the lower-income people.

I found myself feeling taken advantage of. They were not visiting me. They were visiting the computer, the TV, the refrigerator, and the laundry facilities. It's like being the kid with the coolest toys on the block, and that's the only reason the others all want to play at your house. Not because they like *you.*

I've also found this among other family members, such as siblings and even my mother, as soon as my lifestyle started to improve. Whatever I had, they felt entitled to partake of. Years ago my sister used to come to my house and spend all her time using my telephone, since she could not afford one herself. And they'd help themselves to whatever was in my refrigerator. Same kind of thing. I spoke up, and my mother gave me a speech about how family members take certain liberties with each other, and also how I am the older sister and should look out for the younger one. I really can't blame my daughters for thinking this way, since they have been taught it by other family members. But the bottom line is, we DON'T have enough surplus to feed my daughters, their friends, and my grandchildren any old time they want. Of course, my grandchildren being little, we'll do whatever we can to see that they don't go hungry, if that's ever a problem. But to just have everyone swooping down like vultures... and then because of past conditioning, to feel like a stingy ogre if I protest...

How are things done in your family?

I am in my 50's and when my daughter was having trouble I let her use my car for 6 months, do laundry, go on the internet, and was happy I could be of help to her. When she comes over she can go in the fridge but she asks if she can have something, and if I want to give it to her I say yes, if not, I say no. To me that's what family is for, and when I retire and am short on cash, and she is working, she will help me.
When you get old and sick, your fancy house won't mean much. I know you have struggled but it's still just a house.
Aren't you glad your family feels at home when they come? I agree with your Mom.
If the roommates bug you, ask your daughter not to bring them. Maybe what's bugging you is your inability to set boundaries?, just a guess.

You agree with my mom? That I should just let my family help themselves to what my husband has worked hard for, until it's depleted and we have nothing left for us? Or did I misunderstand? If I did, please correct me.

No, I am not glad my family felt they were free to just walk into my house and do as they pleased. That's why I moved to Washington, while they're in Kentucky. When I lived near them, my siblings sometimes even brought dates over and expected to be allowed to party all night, at my place, playing loud music and leaving a mess, even if I had someplace to go early the next morning. If I objected, I was selfish and a control freak. For a specific example, I told my sister that she and her partying, drinking, drug-using friends could not stay all night. She laughed, and then called out to her friends, "You hear that? We have to leave at 5:00 AM." (That's when the local bars closed.)

My husband is much better at setting those boundaries than I am. Often he can lay down the law and be respected, while I can say the same thing and have it go in one ear and out the other. Our house isn't big or "fancy," but it is everything we need, and we are comfortable instead of crowded in it. He feels he has worked hard to obtain his own personal sanctuary, and he doesn't want others barging in. They can do what he did; work hard and get their own. And I agree with him.

Is my mother correct that the older sister should continue to look out for the younger sister? I believe the playing field levels at age 18, and we are in our 40's. I never was actually "responsible" for her, although in childhood it often felt that way, and I am certainly not responsible for her now. I am married to a man with a steady career, and no addictions eating up the money he earns. She chose to marry a man with an unstable job history and a prison record; in fact she married him while he was in prison. Now (surprise!) her life is not as comfortable and happy as mine is. Is this my fault? Do I owe it to her to share-and-share-alike, giving to her until she has as much as I do, just because I made a good life choice and she made a bad one?

I understand helping out when family members fall on hard times, but what about those who STAY on hard times? At what point does sharing with family become simply being taken advantage of?

They are not your friends; it is not a generational thing or anything else; it is a personal space thing.

I would tell your daughters they are not allowed to bring anyone else over to the house, they may come do their laundry, etc. but you do not need other adult strangers in your house; it's not play time and you are not holding a play date for the friends of your children!

They need to grow up and take responsibility for their lives (you did, so they can!). The fact that your daughter did not rein in her friends, the "tried" part is lame, means she is unable or unwilling at this time to act the adult in your household so she does not get adult privileges in your household.

Personal space. That sums it all up. I couldn't put into words *why* I felt so invaded, but that's it. Thanks.

There have to be boundaries set. If you are feeling taken advantage of... it usually is because you did not set the boundaries. That is on you. Some people will take what they can get unless directly told no. Absent minded mooches. Especially entitled young adults today who continually get/got whatever they want. Be nice but direct and if they are offended, too bad.

Boundries! Thye will keep walking all over you until you establish firm boundries with all of them. The WILL NOT like it at first and will accuse you of being a bad mom etc...but do not let that get to you.

My suggestion is to go to AL-ANON or find a therapist to work with so you can stand firm in your boundries. They will continually try to manipulate you and continue to challenge those boundries. Your husband has got to follow this as well. This is hard to do and requires that you stick to it, and do not ever give in. When you establish these boundries make sure you can do it before you ever tell them.

This will not be easy and you must believe you are doing the right thing or it won't work. No guilt!

I am suddenly reminded of an incident from my college days. I was 24 and living in student housing, but the over-21 housing wasn't supervised and bed-checked like the under-21 housing was. I have never been much of a party person. I was serious about the fact that I was, first and foremost, a student. That meant going to classes. Which meant I needed sleep. My roommate (not one I chose, but we were assigned to the same unit) and several others living in the apartment building were more concerned about the fact that hey, we're legal adults now. That means we get to do whatever we want, so let's PAR-TAYYYY! It was a school night, and classes were starting in another four hours, but they were still up and having a good old time. My roommate wanted them there, so I didn't feel I could make them leave. But their noise was keeping me from sleeping. Eventually I got angry, walked into the room, and announced, "It's three o'clock in the (obscenity) morning! Normal people are in bed by now!" This prompted one party animal to brush me off with, "Oh, well, I've never been normal," and they just kept on with what they were doing.

I never did know how to set boundaries. Somewhere in my head I expect to hear, "Well, who are you, Miss High and Mighty?" And often I do actually hear that. Or I might get some variation of, "You're no fun. I don't like you." Which, for reasons that are my own character weakness and need for approval, just makes me crumble.

Well then just tell them to stop coming over and go visit them if it bothers you so much.

Edited to leave unsaid what I was going to say. The suggestion that since I am not willing to open my home indiscriminately, I should not open it at all, is puzzling to me, but I'm going to retract my lost temper.

Hubby just told me, "You don't need to justify yourself for not wanting to open your house up to a bunch of bums." He says from now on, if my daughter needs her laundry done, he'll pick her up, with her laundry and ONLY her laundry, not theirs. And he'll drop her off. My children are welcome in my home, make no mistake. It's the street urchins my oldest wants to bring along with her, that I don't want. Neither does hubby. He is a city bus driver and says he deals with them enough, without having them follow him home.

The others who have responded in this thread and offered *support,* and constructive insight on the subject of personal space and setting boundaries--which is the real issue--thank you. I would appreciate advice on how to be more effective when setting boundaries, since my attempts get ignored, just as in the college example above. As for my oldest daughter's kind-heartedness in trying to "cure" young homeless people, I'm afraid her efforts are going to be futile. I saw my mother take drunken bums in off the street, and try to make a decent father figure out of them, and it always failed. I even did it myself. Opened my home to a homeless person because I felt sorry for him. We fell in love, got married, and he ended up going through every penny I had until I was out on the streets along with him. So no more of that.

You asked how other people did things in their families, as far as losing your temper, why are you upset when you ask others opinions and then you don't like it? If you want to get mad get mad at your family, not at someone who is trying to get you to see that you just need to be honest, and set boundaries. Not be passive/aggressive and take your anger out on a stranger. When someone comes into your home and does something you don't like tell them not to do it. I'm sorry I guess I don't understand.

My mother was always urging me to buy a place, like a duplex, and "get the renters to pay the mortgage". I had a hard enough time just keeping a job, dealing with the people there, that that would have been a nightmare for me. I think I heard or read somewhere recently - maybe it was a Judge Judy episode! - that mom's idea was not good for a person with people and or mental problems like me. It may be more than your daughter can handle, too, having those roommates. Maybe you can help her choose her next ones, or help her some other way. Because if you guys couldn't deal with them for one afternoon, how is she doing? I don't mean to discount what happened.

My dad taught me, and his mother taught him, that even if somebody offers you a drink, you always say no thanks! I would NEVER open my brother's refrigerator. I usually bring my own food to my mother's, but I might take one of a multiple - a slice of cheese or bread, a piece of fruit or candy, some flavored coffee mix. They never come to my place, they never eat what I cook.

I am probably not understanding what you were trying to say either. Which is why I edited out what I was going to say. It looks like we have accidentally ruffled each other's feathers, but I'm preening mine back down smooth. No hard feelings.

We just left my daughter's house, where we had a frank talk. She won't bring her roomies over anymore. She, and we do mean SHE, is invited over for supper tomorrow night.

My daughter, as a former foster child, feels strongly that it is her calling in life to help people who have outgrown foster care, but aren't quite ready to stand on their own two feet yet, adjust to life in the grown up, independent world. I'm sure that's a noble calling, but I do believe she should get herself established first.

I think what Lad might have been trying to say is that you aren't really setting boundaries. In the college example you gave, you did not say "It's 3 am; I have to go to class in the morning, and you all need to leave." You made a more passive comment suggesting that they leave without saying the words. I think what you might need to practice doing is voicing exactly what you want people to do, how you want to be treated, etc. Also, perhaps adding consequences to boundaries not followed through -- again, in regards to the college example, if they did not leave you could have called campus police or something (I don't understand how your college housing worked; every where I've been had RA's that enforced rules regardless of age).

I hope that was helpful without upsetting. I understand your feelings and I agree with you that I wouldn't let your daughter's friends take advantage of you, because honestly, not only are you being taken advantage of but you also enabling them to stay the way they are. Setting up firm boundaries helps both you and them. And one more side note... I think your daughter has very good intentions, but I think it would be better for her if she went in the field of social work instead of taking them in and trying to help them get better. She might be having the same weak boundary issues you are having and is enabling them to stay the same as well.

Again, hope I didn't upset you. Sending warm thoughts your way