[Timgt5]

Normally I am not one to ask for advice (one of my personal downfalls) but I wanted to tap into the massive brain trust that is Pysch Central and see if you guys can give me a bit of consultation, this is regarding my mother in law. Worry not, this is not one of those lengthy rants to complain, she is in fact a very kind soul, whom I want to actually help.

This is going to be a bit long winded (sorry guys) but I think the background is important in order to understand her mindset and issues with life changes.

My mom in law and her husband were married roughly forty years. Although he was a good prospect on paper (well educated, with good job prospects etc) she quickly realized a short time after they were married that they were not compatible. She had become pregnant with her first child and he was a good provider. After having a second child, she began to develop a separate life from him. As far as I can understand he was never abusive physically but was emotionally distant and neglectful. He was a rather conservative fellow, who wanted a very traditional family. She on the other hand wanted to make her own decisions and live life on her terms.

By the time I met my then future wife, her parents hardly spoke to each other. Her mom and dad stayed married despite her growing resentment of him. She adamantly did not want to give up the house (the mortgage was in his name) and neither did he. So despite their negative feelings for each other they stayed together. My mom in law had planned on getting a divorce after both kids had graduated college, but his health began to decline. His decreasing mobility (most likely MS, although he refused to get a proper diagnosis) rendered him more and more dependent on her. His family all lived in the Midwest, so she went from wife to primary caregiver.

To deal with the stress of the bad marriage, she took up what I like to term as “sport shopping” Shopping without a particular need, just to stay out of the house. She would often buy large quantities of clothes on sale. This later turned into hanging out at thrift stores and buying dish sets, trinkets and other discarded items. She began what I would call the early stages of hoarding (after seeing the TV shows on this subject, she adamantly denies this and insists she is just a “pack rat”) Although she kept the house very clean, the walls began to pile up with various nick knacks. She spent most of the time outside working in her various flower gardens.

Her basement became filled with stuffed animals, plants and some old furniture. She had carved out a small area to sit, eat and watch a small TV, while her husband basically camped out in the living room, ultimately becoming housebound (his leg and back pained him intently and he had to use a cane to walk across the room) She slept in a spare bedroom in the basement.

My wife became concerned about mold and mildew affecting her mom’s health (a problem especially in houses with crawlspaces). After my mom in law retired (2004) my wife began pushing her to begin cleaning out the house, donating useful items to hospice or selling them to a local thrift store. Other things had deteriorated and needed to be tossed out altogether. In order to help her take stuff out of the house, my wife’s dad purchased his son’s 1998 Toyota 4 runner SUV. She did stop acquiring things from the thrift stores and began the very painful process of cleaning out her house. We have been assisting with various items. She has a difficult time with parting with items, but slowly she has moved things on. I believe we have at least stopped the problem before it became physically dangerous to her to have so much clutter. One thing that made it difficult was his presence in the house as he slept odd hours making it difficult for her to work on cleaning things out.

In May of 2011 my father in law passed away from long term health issues. I think he had become depressed and miserable, ultimately losing the will to live. My mom in law is now a widow. She lives alone with one cat. She has begun rearranging the house and increasing her efforts to remove items, starting with some of her husband’s clothes. I have been helping by posting his old videogames on ebay and giving her the proceeds to help with her household expenses. My wife has moved some of her old items out of the house and is storing a few small things and getting rid of the rest.

Her son has asked her to give away most of his old toys, as many have become dirty with mold. As an asthma sufferer it would not be in his interest to take any of those home with him. This was a good thing as she was holding on to this stuff for him. She came from a poor rural Iowa farm family, so every possession was precious and had to be preserved and passed down.

So there are some issues left to address:

• Nearly 10 Months after her husband’s passing she is still sleeping in the down stairs spare room in the basement. The master bedroom upstairs has a fairly new mattress is much more spacious. She has redecorated it some, which is an encouraging sign, but she is sleeping where it is colder, damper and more prone to be unhealthy. The whole house belongs to her now, she should not continue living in the basement, like a cave troll. It seems she derives some comfort closed up in the dark surrounded by “stuff”. She is rather sensitive on this subject so I have not tried to broach it yet.
• She has a lot of trouble making changes in her life even those that have obvious benefits. It took us nearly six months for us to convince her to stop using our old computer (which was slowly dying) and buy a new one so she could switch to broadband internet (she had been on dial up since 2000). The entry level broadband plan was actually cheaper than AOL for 10X the speed. She only was willing to do this because her current phone company had switched her to a more expensive per minute long distance plan without her consent. The current internet provider offered a fixed rate long distance plan. In the end she will get better internet and unlimited calling for less than she had been paying in long distance charges (her mom still lives in Iowa and she calls her 2X a week) and slow internet service.
• She is finally starting to watch TV in the living room. My wife and I are trying to encourage her to spend more time there as the TV is fairly nice LCD and has the better cable service attached. Also she is not sitting down in said basement surrounded by piles of old objects as much. She still goes down to watch TV from time to time.
• We are trying to make her understand that we (neither my wife or I nor her son and his wife) do not want most of her old things. We do not have large homes nor any excess capacity for storing things (I for one cannot stand clutter) my wife’s brother is about to add a new addition to his family (baby coming in May) so they do not have excess room for much to come in to their home. This is difficult for my Mom in law, because she is very sentimental about material things often addressing inanimate objects as if they were people and has this desire to pass them down.
• She owns too many automobiles and needs to consolidate. She currently holds three cars. One a 1998 Accord she bought new 14 years ago, a 1998 Toyota 4 Runner bought from her son, and a 2008 Accord that her husband bought (mainly for her to have a safe car drive to see her son 150 miles away). The 2008 is a V6 and much larger than her 1998. The car is a comfortable highway cruiser but it is really too big for her. She has difficulty seeing around the car. She feels it is big and awkward to park and being an upscale model has a massive amount of confusing controls that she does not fully understand. The 4 Runner has been a useful workhorse but it has over 160K miles. The vehicle is a bit crude and difficult to climb into and out of. She loves the rugged image it projects, but it guzzles gas (17 MPG city,21 Hwy) We want her to look at the 2012 Subaru Impreza Hatchback, which has standard all wheel drive, is a tidy size, but still has 52 cubic feet of cargo space with the seats folding down. The Impreza gets 36 mpg on the hwy and 27 in town (nearly what the 2008 Accord gets on the hwy). My wife saw one at a car show and was very impressed with quality of the fit and finish and it was her idea to gently push her mom to look at the car. The local Subaru dealer is also much closer to her house for servicing. With the money should get from selling the 2008 Accord (which she is not fond of) and the 4 Runner, she could buy the 2012 Impreza for almost no money out of pocket. This would give her a car that could carry extra large items, cruise comfortably on long drives, use much less gas and have the added security of all wheel drive. The long term benefit here is less expenses in terms of gas, insurance, servicing, and property taxes. Of course if she does look at it and does not like it, we would not pressure her any further.
• There some things that needs to be repaired in her home. The house is 40 years old and some of the wallpaper should be removed, the wall cleaned and then painted. Again all of this will be a traumatic change for her, but we will slowly convince her it is for her benefit.
• The last concern is that she is falling into depression. Although she has not withdrawn from her activities, she seems to sleep a lot more during the middle of the day. She confided in me that in part its stems from having so much still in front of her to accomplish she becomes overwhelmed and shuts down, also there is a growing bitterness to her over life and she cannot seem to see the positive side of her recent changes.

I am sorry for this long vent. As I said at the beginning my mom in law is really a very sweet and kind hearted person. She has been very giving all of her life, which is a great quality, but she needs to learn to live for herself now.

Her children have good jobs and are married to spouses which are stable and make good money as well. She does not have to look out for us financially and any of us would be willing to help her out in that capacity if needed.

I was looking for any insight, opinions, thoughts that might be of help, I would simply like her to enjoy the rest of her years happy and in continued good health.

Thank you all for listening.

Timgt5

[Leed]

Hi ~ First I''d like to say that she is lucky to have people like you around her to look out for her best interests! Not everyone is so fond of their mother-in-law. LOL.

I would think that your first issue would be to address her depression. She needs to see her doctor for a check-up. There could be some other things going on too, but this depression should be talked about with him. Try to get her to go. She sounds like a bit of a stubborn woman, and I'll bet she doesn't see her doc regularly, but she really should go.

I agree she should be sleeping upstairs -- that basement isn't healthy at all !! Why not suggest that she could decorate the upstairs bedroom any way she wanted to --- that she could re-do it completely. Perhaps that would encourage her to sleep in that room instead of the basement. And tell her she could take a FEW things from the basement and put them in the upstairs bedroom, but NOT everything!. LOL

She really should get rid of all those autos. Does she have a garage for all of them? Are they all licensed? If they're not licensed, many cities, counties will FINE people for having "unlicensed junk" cars on their property -- even if they're perfectly good cars and driveable. And if she puts licenses on them, that's pretty expensive! Why not sell them, and get the money? Let someone else get the benefit from them? Besides, she needs a safer car for herself -- the 2008 is just too big for her, making it dangerous. She's liable to get hurt or hurt someone else. Tell her she MUST sell them.

I think most of the things you mentioned will get taken care of after her depression is taken care of. Right now she feels overwhelmed due to feeling so helpless. Mentally she just can't handle all this. Counseling could help, or perhaps an antidepressant is needed. Her doctor will know what's best.

I wish you the very best. She's lucky to have you. Best of luck and God bless. Hugs. Lee

[shezbut]

Very nice to hear that you care about your MIL and what she's gone through in life. Seems to be such a rare thing nowadays with elders. So, kudos to you and your family!

It is also great to hear that your MIL doesn't have to worry about her children's financial well-being. That's a big relief.

One of the biggest challenges that your MIL is facing is depression. Encouraging her to go in for at least medical treatment, maybe even counseling, would have a great impact on her well-being. I am sure of that.

Have you considered the possibility of seeing if your MIL may be interested in moving? I only ask because it doesn't sound as though she's real connected with the home. She may see it more as her late-husband's, and not feel a warm connection to it. Whereas the basement holds a place in her heart. It's possible that it would be a relief for your MIL to have an entire house, that holds momento's and isn't a health risk.

That's my input. I wish your family the best & hope that you're able to bring some happiness back into your MIL's life. She does deserve it!

[roads]

Does she have any friends, anyone she and her husband used to be friendly with? Was she ever active in church or school activities? Libraries, animal shelters--so many places are in need of volunteers.

I know it's much easier for me to put in an hour or two on my own overwhelming home projects like the cleaning-out that I can never keep up with. I don't mind as much when I do just a bit of that then spend a couple hours cheering up cats at the shelter so they feel special &worthy of adoption.

It'll hard for her to get the feel of going out and being social. Of course, if she never was--if she was always a cave dweller, you may end up having to accept that she is who she is and she is going to remain who she is. You just do your best, bless you.

PM me anytime if you want to talk.

[Perna]

Originally Posted by Timgt5

We are trying to make her understand that we (neither my wife or I nor her son and his wife) do not want most of her old things. We do not have large homes nor any excess capacity for storing things (I for one cannot stand clutter) my wife’s brother is about to add a new addition to his family (baby coming in May) so they do not have excess room for much to come in to their home. This is difficult for my Mom in law, because she is very sentimental about material things often addressing inanimate objects as if they were people and has this desire to pass them down.

This one I can address; take the stuff and then sell, toss, whatever! She does not come to your house, much less into your attic, basement, storage areas to know what you have done with the old stuff!

Be appreciative of the stuff (maybe even make a list of it and refer to it in the future, "hey, Mom, remember that platter with the turkey on it. . .") Keep a toy or two of your brother-in-law's that's in okay shape (or a book, something) and then wait 10 years and give it to a grandniece/nephew.

The old stuff makes great, "cheap" Christmas presents and the kids coming up enjoy seeing what their parents grew up with. I have my brother's teddy bear, yes it's slightly dirty, faintly moldy smelling (take a stuffed animal to a cleaner, see if they can clean it?) and he definitely doesn't want it and I don't know his daughter but if his daughter marries and has kids, guess what? LOL

She isn't going to remember all the stuff you take for very long (especially if you divide it up and all take different (one's own old) stuff so you can load a couple boxes at a time into your car each time you come over and then go straight to the trash with it! Find a "picture" you can stand and hang it in your bathroom :-)

I would not try to move her out of the basement, if she is comfortable there, at least not right now. I would get a dehumidifier, do some heavy duty cleaning, etc. Trying to get her to change against her desires/comfort level is probably at least as mentally unhealthy as leaving her there is physically and the body can take more punishment than the heart? Unless she herself has asthma, leave her alone for a bit and just work in a single direction at once.

My husband's ex-wife collected couches :-) and my stepson had to go down in the basement and rearrange the basement so there was (a) no room for more and (b) it thwarted that particular collecting drive (moved heavy cabinets in the "way" making pathways -- the ex-wife has major back issues so didn't have to worry that she'd mess up the rearrange.

Maybe make a short list of three things that would save money or improve her life (like the new computer) and talk to her about them before trying to implement them. If they changed her long distance, for example (and she complained to you all) then research other carriers and/or show her how she can "solve" that. Don't do very much behind-her-back, noticing stuff she hasn't mentioned; it looks like you are snooping and no one likes to feel like they are incompetent to handle their own affairs? Bring little gifts like a book of stamps or box of envelopes, a new address book and offer to help sit with her and copy addresses from an old book to the new one, make out envelopes for bills, put together and mail packages of stuff to his relatives (nieces/nephews, etc.) in the Midwest for her?

Sometimes just pick her up and take her out for breakfast at the diner/coffee shop or something on a Saturday morning; think of an "easy" new ritual or two for getting together with her? Offer to get her books, if she's a reader, at the library, etc. Get a little effortless stimulation into her life so she is out-and-about a bit more (could help her depression). Get her mental juices, imagination, flowing a bit more readily. I live in a relatively seedy, industrial area and love to think what stores I would put into a half-empty, rundown shopping center if I owned it or how I would fix up a neighborhood, etc. Play mental "games" like that as you are just driving to/from places. Take her for rides in the countryside, just driving, along enjoying good weather. Ask her about her childhood (like you're interested :-)

For the painting/wall papering, hold a little "party" to paint a room; get family and some of you all's friends she may know, 8-10 people and order pizza and get a room done that way. Bring samples of colors and wall paper home and/or take her to a store just to look (not "do" anything yet, just look). Let her choose what to work on "next", suggest she make a list of what she'd like to do with the house if time, money, effort were no problem. Get that imagination going. After Christmas I decided to change the blinds in my master bedroom and it was a one-month affair with a couple trips to the Next-day blind store, etc.; I had brochures and samples and colors to consider and had a ball, all for venetian blinds :-) I have made a little list and am having fun figuring out how to finance very tiny, but needed improvements over the next five years so when I (hopefully) can blast my husband out of this house, the fixes that will be needed for selling won't be as catastropic.

Last summer I invested in a stock for 4 months that made exactly enough that when I sold it I got a new refrigerator :-) Then I replaced my living room furniture, including getting a sleep sofa (maybe do that to get her upstairs? See if she'd like a new, inexpensive sleep sofa/futon) for the living room as my second bedroom is not sleepable due to needing to have the cat litter kept in it. I'm doing one thing every 2-3 months, under $1,000 a project, saving up and/or figuring out ways to "make" the money to do the project. Just hiring the 1-800-GOT-JUNK people and getting the old living room furniture trashed felt wonderful! I rearranged and got rid of some stuff I wasn't using (dining room table) so I got a whole lot more room and just feel freer/less stressed.

[Timgt5]

I want to thank all of you for the thoughtful responses and great suggestions

I am glad to have found such a great community of folks so willing to help. I will try to respond to each of these individually when I have a bit more time

Again thank you for taking the time to read and respond.

The best

Timgt5

[Callmebj]

Hi Timgt4, I too am a widow and I think it is wonderful that she has absolute healthy relations with family members. I think Shezbut was correct in addressing the depression maybe with a group of others that are widows/widowers or therapy; medication if needed. Socially I hope she is active and has friends; very necessary in most people's life. I can't stress enough about her having control over things and not feeling like she is loosing because family thinks they know best.

Helping is important but reserve decisions for her to make on her own. After being married a long, long time myself; I changed drastically after my husband died with going from a very active person to letting myself become much more sedentary. Not good for one's health. I too have good loving family dynamics, and they often include me in social events.
I do take an anti-depressant/anti-anxiety meds, but my motivation is not there and I am addressing it with a T. Taken from a caretaker role to being single is a huge step.
I would advise to be supportive, helpful, but not overbearing on her making decisions for herself. I have worked a lot in nursing home/hospice settings years ago and one of the main things older people miss is giving up personal control and being independent in their life.

I too had a mil I loved and was close to; I do appreciate seeing that you are conscious of her well being. bj

[Beholden]

I really enjoyed your post Tim,

I agree with several of the op, it does sound like she has a problem with depression - or it could be caused from a thyroid problem, very common cause of depression symtoms especially in older women. Her current medications may be part of the problem too. It is very possible there is a physical medical reason for her depression like issues.

I'd say get her to see her doctor, maybe have a trusted family member go with her so that the 'issues' can be talked about. When the appointment is made, m i l needs to express the reason for the appointment, or it won't be addressed. That's the way most doctors work these days due to insurance restrictions. They won't discuss more than what the appointment subject is about. Saddness, lack of pleasure, grief, no motivation needs to be stated when the appointment is made.

She did have a long life time with her husband - good or bad, but now she has a huge change in her life. All change takes getting used to. She needs to greive even if she wasn't 'happily' married. She maybe processing so much more than the death and her aloneness. Like, what could have been, what should have been, guilt about the way things turned out, whether or not it is false guilt or not, resentment is a huge emotion to hurddle alone ---

I especially liked the suggestion about going to a group for support for widows. I know I do so much better in my life when I'm involed with others who have similiar life situations/likes/etc as I have. Just look at AA as an example. Support is key in your m i l's life.

Watching the TV show Horders, the therapists who specialize in this disorder say that the person who collects stuff has a need to control something in their lives. The last time I watched the show, the T told the audience that the person has to be an active part in making the decisions on what to throw away, has to see it, and feel the emotional reaction connected to the objects. For you to just come in and do all the cleaning etc without her having an active part seems like the wrong approach.

Medical check up is the first move I'd say. From there, the doctor may have some advise as well. He may suggest therapy for the loss she has suffered.

You are a great son in law to want to have her see how to save some money and have a nice home to live in and have her happy, sweet and giving again.

[Timgt5]

Again I would like to thank those who have responded, there are a lot great ideas and perspectives here and I value all of your time and wisdom.

[Timgt5]

Originally Posted by Leed

Hi ~ First I''d like to say that she is lucky to have people like you around her to look out for her best interests! Not everyone is so fond of their mother-in-law. LOL.

I would think that your first issue would be to address her depression. She needs to see her doctor for a check-up. There could be some other things going on too, but this depression should be talked about with him. Try to get her to go. She sounds like a bit of a stubborn woman, and I'll bet she doesn't see her doc regularly, but she really should go.

I agree she should be sleeping upstairs -- that basement isn't healthy at all !! Why not suggest that she could decorate the upstairs bedroom any way she wanted to --- that she could re-do it completely. Perhaps that would encourage her to sleep in that room instead of the basement. And tell her she could take a FEW things from the basement and put them in the upstairs bedroom, but NOT everything!. LOL

She really should get rid of all those autos. Does she have a garage for all of them? Are they all licensed? If they're not licensed, many cities, counties will FINE people for having "unlicensed junk" cars on their property -- even if they're perfectly good cars and driveable. And if she puts licenses on them, that's pretty expensive! Why not sell them, and get the money? Let someone else get the benefit from them? Besides, she needs a safer car for herself -- the 2008 is just too big for her, making it dangerous. She's liable to get hurt or hurt someone else. Tell her she MUST sell them.

I think most of the things you mentioned will get taken care of after her depression is taken care of. Right now she feels overwhelmed due to feeling so helpless. Mentally she just can't handle all this. Counseling could help, or perhaps an antidepressant is needed. Her doctor will know what's best.

I wish you the very best. She's lucky to have you. Best of luck and God bless. Hugs. Lee

Thank you for kind words

She definately becomes overwhelmed at times, my wife and I always try to make ourselves available to help her with big tasks.

The autos are actually in good shape and she has a garage to keep two in. It would be cheaper for her in the long run to consolidate and I am going to have to slowly convince her from a long term cost standpoint

It will just take time.

[Timgt5]

Originally Posted by Callmebj

Hi Timgt4, I too am a widow and I think it is wonderful that she has absolute healthy relations with family members. I think Shezbut was correct in addressing the depression maybe with a group of others that are widows/widowers or therapy; medication if needed. Socially I hope she is active and has friends; very necessary in most people's life. I can't stress enough about her having control over things and not feeling like she is loosing because family thinks they know best.

Helping is important but reserve decisions for her to make on her own. After being married a long, long time myself; I changed drastically after my husband died with going from a very active person to letting myself become much more sedentary. Not good for one's health. I too have good loving family dynamics, and they often include me in social events.
I do take an anti-depressant/anti-anxiety meds, but my motivation is not there and I am addressing it with a T. Taken from a caretaker role to being single is a huge step.
I would advise to be supportive, helpful, but not overbearing on her making decisions for herself. I have worked a lot in nursing home/hospice settings years ago and one of the main things older people miss is giving up personal control and being independent in their life.

I too had a mil I loved and was close to; I do appreciate seeing that you are conscious of her well being. bj

Thank you for adding your perspective. This gives me great insight into what she is going through. I agree it has been major change. She has made a number of positive accomplishments since his passing.

The whole therapy thing will be tricky as she truly believes her behavior is normal and denies that there is any actual problem. I am going to let my wife broach that issue.

Of course we will be careful not to coerce her into anything she is truly uncomfortable with or resolutely does not want to do. The key thing for all of us is patience.

[Timgt5]

Originally Posted by shezbut

Very nice to hear that you care about your MIL and what she's gone through in life. Seems to be such a rare thing nowadays with elders. So, kudos to you and your family!

It is also great to hear that your MIL doesn't have to worry about her children's financial well-being. That's a big relief.

One of the biggest challenges that your MIL is facing is depression. Encouraging her to go in for at least medical treatment, maybe even counseling, would have a great impact on her well-being. I am sure of that.

Have you considered the possibility of seeing if your MIL may be interested in moving? I only ask because it doesn't sound as though she's real connected with the home. She may see it more as her late-husband's, and not feel a warm connection to it. Whereas the basement holds a place in her heart. It's possible that it would be a relief for your MIL to have an entire house, that holds momento's and isn't a health risk.

That's my input. I wish your family the best & hope that you're able to bring some happiness back into your MIL's life. She does deserve it!

Thank you for your insights.

Moving is not really an option, she simply has too much that she cannot part with and she does not have the means to buy a larger house.

I agree with your perceptions with regards to certain areas of the house being seen as still "his" even some time after his passing. So she will have to reclaim the space room by room. Last night we helped with some new decoration for the living room. Her eargerness to work on making these changes is a good sign.

[Timgt5]

Originally Posted by Roadie

Does she have any friends, anyone she and her husband used to be friendly with? Was she ever active in church or school activities? Libraries, animal shelters--so many places are in need of volunteers.

I know it's much easier for me to put in an hour or two on my own overwhelming home projects like the cleaning-out that I can never keep up with. I don't mind as much when I do just a bit of that then spend a couple hours cheering up cats at the shelter so they feel special &worthy of adoption.

It'll hard for her to get the feel of going out and being social. Of course, if she never was--if she was always a cave dweller, you may end up having to accept that she is who she is and she is going to remain who she is. You just do your best, bless you.

PM me anytime if you want to talk.

Thank you for your thoughtful response. She does have a garden club she meets with 2X a month and she participates in the local town planning board. She is also close to her next door neighbor (also a widow) and they go out to eat on a regular basis.

[Timgt5]

Originally Posted by Perna

This one I can address; take the stuff and then sell, toss, whatever! She does not come to your house, much less into your attic, basement, storage areas to know what you have done with the old stuff!

Be appreciative of the stuff (maybe even make a list of it and refer to it in the future, "hey, Mom, remember that platter with the turkey on it. . .") Keep a toy or two of your brother-in-law's that's in okay shape (or a book, something) and then wait 10 years and give it to a grandniece/nephew.

The old stuff makes great, "cheap" Christmas presents and the kids coming up enjoy seeing what their parents grew up with. I have my brother's teddy bear, yes it's slightly dirty, faintly moldy smelling (take a stuffed animal to a cleaner, see if they can clean it?) and he definitely doesn't want it and I don't know his daughter but if his daughter marries and has kids, guess what? LOL

She isn't going to remember all the stuff you take for very long (especially if you divide it up and all take different (one's own old) stuff so you can load a couple boxes at a time into your car each time you come over and then go straight to the trash with it! Find a "picture" you can stand and hang it in your bathroom :-)

I would not try to move her out of the basement, if she is comfortable there, at least not right now. I would get a dehumidifier, do some heavy duty cleaning, etc. Trying to get her to change against her desires/comfort level is probably at least as mentally unhealthy as leaving her there is physically and the body can take more punishment than the heart? Unless she herself has asthma, leave her alone for a bit and just work in a single direction at once.

My husband's ex-wife collected couches :-) and my stepson had to go down in the basement and rearrange the basement so there was (a) no room for more and (b) it thwarted that particular collecting drive (moved heavy cabinets in the "way" making pathways -- the ex-wife has major back issues so didn't have to worry that she'd mess up the rearrange.

Maybe make a short list of three things that would save money or improve her life (like the new computer) and talk to her about them before trying to implement them. If they changed her long distance, for example (and she complained to you all) then research other carriers and/or show her how she can "solve" that. Don't do very much behind-her-back, noticing stuff she hasn't mentioned; it looks like you are snooping and no one likes to feel like they are incompetent to handle their own affairs? Bring little gifts like a book of stamps or box of envelopes, a new address book and offer to help sit with her and copy addresses from an old book to the new one, make out envelopes for bills, put together and mail packages of stuff to his relatives (nieces/nephews, etc.) in the Midwest for her?

Sometimes just pick her up and take her out for breakfast at the diner/coffee shop or something on a Saturday morning; think of an "easy" new ritual or two for getting together with her? Offer to get her books, if she's a reader, at the library, etc. Get a little effortless stimulation into her life so she is out-and-about a bit more (could help her depression). Get her mental juices, imagination, flowing a bit more readily. I live in a relatively seedy, industrial area and love to think what stores I would put into a half-empty, rundown shopping center if I owned it or how I would fix up a neighborhood, etc. Play mental "games" like that as you are just driving to/from places. Take her for rides in the countryside, just driving, along enjoying good weather. Ask her about her childhood (like you're interested :-)

For the painting/wall papering, hold a little "party" to paint a room; get family and some of you all's friends she may know, 8-10 people and order pizza and get a room done that way. Bring samples of colors and wall paper home and/or take her to a store just to look (not "do" anything yet, just look). Let her choose what to work on "next", suggest she make a list of what she'd like to do with the house if time, money, effort were no problem. Get that imagination going. After Christmas I decided to change the blinds in my master bedroom and it was a one-month affair with a couple trips to the Next-day blind store, etc.; I had brochures and samples and colors to consider and had a ball, all for venetian blinds :-) I have made a little list and am having fun figuring out how to finance very tiny, but needed improvements over the next five years so when I (hopefully) can blast my husband out of this house, the fixes that will be needed for selling won't be as catastropic.

Last summer I invested in a stock for 4 months that made exactly enough that when I sold it I got a new refrigerator :-) Then I replaced my living room furniture, including getting a sleep sofa (maybe do that to get her upstairs? See if she'd like a new, inexpensive sleep sofa/futon) for the living room as my second bedroom is not sleepable due to needing to have the cat litter kept in it. I'm doing one thing every 2-3 months, under $1,000 a project, saving up and/or figuring out ways to "make" the money to do the project. Just hiring the 1-800-GOT-JUNK people and getting the old living room furniture trashed felt wonderful! I rearranged and got rid of some stuff I wasn't using (dining room table) so I got a whole lot more room and just feel freer/less stressed.

thank you for offering your ideas and insights.

I agree there has to be a balance between rendering assistance and seeming to control her decisions.

We do try to do something with her every weekend sometimes going there to help her with the yard or other projects, sometimes having her come here, to work on landscape (an activity which she enjoys)

She has made some progress in removing things from her house, partially motivated by the coming of her new Grand daughter (due this May)

side note: I am exited to be an Uncle.

It will still take a lot of time. I had a look in the Garage yesterday and with no one else in sight, just shook my head. It is hard task and will take years to remove the clutter. So my thing is to remain patient and take this step by step.

[Timgt5]

Originally Posted by Beholden

I really enjoyed your post Tim,

I agree with several of the op, it does sound like she has a problem with depression - or it could be caused from a thyroid problem, very common cause of depression symtoms especially in older women. Her current medications may be part of the problem too. It is very possible there is a physical medical reason for her depression like issues.

I'd say get her to see her doctor, maybe have a trusted family member go with her so that the 'issues' can be talked about. When the appointment is made, m i l needs to express the reason for the appointment, or it won't be addressed. That's the way most doctors work these days due to insurance restrictions. They won't discuss more than what the appointment subject is about. Saddness, lack of pleasure, grief, no motivation needs to be stated when the appointment is made.

She did have a long life time with her husband - good or bad, but now she has a huge change in her life. All change takes getting used to. She needs to greive even if she wasn't 'happily' married. She maybe processing so much more than the death and her aloneness. Like, what could have been, what should have been, guilt about the way things turned out, whether or not it is false guilt or not, resentment is a huge emotion to hurddle alone ---

I especially liked the suggestion about going to a group for support for widows. I know I do so much better in my life when I'm involed with others who have similiar life situations/likes/etc as I have. Just look at AA as an example. Support is key in your m i l's life.

Watching the TV show Horders, the therapists who specialize in this disorder say that the person who collects stuff has a need to control something in their lives. The last time I watched the show, the T told the audience that the person has to be an active part in making the decisions on what to throw away, has to see it, and feel the emotional reaction connected to the objects. For you to just come in and do all the cleaning etc without her having an active part seems like the wrong approach.

Medical check up is the first move I'd say. From there, the doctor may have some advise as well. He may suggest therapy for the loss she has suffered.

You are a great son in law to want to have her see how to save some money and have a nice home to live in and have her happy, sweet and giving again.

I was not aware about the Thyaroid playing a part in this. Thank you for the information Beholden, I will most definately look into that issue.

I appreciate your time, kindness and encouragement.

[roads]

Originally Posted by Timgt5

It will still take a lot of time. I had a look in the Garage yesterday and with no one else in sight, just shook my head. It is hard task and will take years to remove the clutter. So my thing is to remain patient and take this step by step.

Your patience is such a blessing--for her, as well as you. It sounds as if you are working well together & that no one overwhelms the other. No unfair competition.

I hope the patience isn't too hard to maintain.