[bwebb]

So recently, through marriage counselling and a little self exploration, I have started to see things differently. And now I am ultimately confused. I have been married for 10 years and have always felt like I was this lazy piece of crap. I am NOT good at keeping the house neat and orderly. I fully admit that. I am messy and disorganized. I am working on that though. I don't think I will ever be a neat freak. My husband basically has told me that he is miserable because I am so inconsiderate. He equates living with me to living with a messy college roommate. He says that for 10+ years I have never cared about what he wants, and that I am selfish and inconsiderate and that i am passing those awful traits onto our children. I have always believed him, and have spent all our time together trying to change. Trying to be organized. Buying organizers and baskets so that I have places to put things. I've even been to therapy. I work full time, I have a side business, and I go to grad school. We have 2 children ages 6 and 3. I am wishing to quit my full time job to make my side business my career, but it's been hard to give my side business the right amount of attention with everything else in my life.

Anyway, I have recently begun to wonder if I am all wrong. Maybe I am not exactly who my husband paints me out to be. I am starting to get confused between what I am hoping and what is true. I wonder if I am the inconsiderate housemate my husband says I am. Before we had kids, when we both worked full time and had an apartment with a couple of cats, I was still not very neat and organized. I was messy even when i had the time at hand to be less messy. I have always worked though, I was never a stay at home anything. And I have always had another side job which have changed along the way. I fully admit that I was pampered as a child and I started our life together acting very much the same way I acted at home. My husband would have you believe that this is the root of it all. That my messy, inconsiderate habits have never changed. I would contest that. I work. He works. I value down time. I will not deny that. I like to sit around in the evenings watching TV or playing on my phone. But I often do that while folding laundry or reading for my class. If I am honest with myself, I never seem to give 100% of myself to anything I do. I half-*** everything so to speak. I coast through my job and school doing the minimum requirements. So this is why I am confused about who I am. What I deserve. If I can repair this relationship. I don't know what I am looking for here. I am just trying to figure out if I have a leg to stand on arguing for more respect, or if my husband is right and I need massive amounts of work on myself to change. Blah. what do you all think? Thanks in advance.

[Avian]

Well I feel like you are awfully busy and it is hard when you are that busy to also "keep house". Don't get me wrong I also find it very important to try and do our bests and compromise with our partners. You however are doing TONS!!! It is important for us to be supportive of our partners, but that HAS to go both ways and from how it sounds, it is not. He HAS to be supportive of you too. It is not fair of him to lay all of the blame on you. Remember you are important and you deserve to be valued, not only by him but by yourself! On a side note, if your side business is something you are passionate about, you to deserve the opportunity to try and make it work! I find that when I am not passionate about things it makes it much harder to try and give my all. Best wishes and remember that you are an awesome person that deserves to be treasured!

[trying2survive]

Originally Posted by bwebb

So recently, through marriage counselling and a little self exploration, I have started to see things differently. And now I am ultimately confused. I have been married for 10 years and have always felt like I was this lazy piece of crap. I am NOT good at keeping the house neat and orderly. I fully admit that. I am messy and disorganized. I am working on that though. I don't think I will ever be a neat freak. My husband basically has told me that he is miserable because I am so inconsiderate. He equates living with me to living with a messy college roommate. He says that for 10+ years I have never cared about what he wants, and that I am selfish and inconsiderate and that i am passing those awful traits onto our children. I have always believed him, and have spent all our time together trying to change. Trying to be organized. Buying organizers and baskets so that I have places to put things. I've even been to therapy. I work full time, I have a side business, and I go to grad school. We have 2 children ages 6 and 3. I am wishing to quit my full time job to make my side business my career, but it's been hard to give my side business the right amount of attention with everything else in my life.

Anyway, I have recently begun to wonder if I am all wrong. Maybe I am not exactly who my husband paints me out to be. I am starting to get confused between what I am hoping and what is true. I wonder if I am the inconsiderate housemate my husband says I am. Before we had kids, when we both worked full time and had an apartment with a couple of cats, I was still not very neat and organized. I was messy even when i had the time at hand to be less messy. I have always worked though, I was never a stay at home anything. And I have always had another side job which have changed along the way. I fully admit that I was pampered as a child and I started our life together acting very much the same way I acted at home. My husband would have you believe that this is the root of it all. That my messy, inconsiderate habits have never changed. I would contest that. I work. He works. I value down time. I will not deny that. I like to sit around in the evenings watching TV or playing on my phone. But I often do that while folding laundry or reading for my class. If I am honest with myself, I never seem to give 100% of myself to anything I do. I half-*** everything so to speak. I coast through my job and school doing the minimum requirements. So this is why I am confused about who I am. What I deserve. If I can repair this relationship. I don't know what I am looking for here. I am just trying to figure out if I have a leg to stand on arguing for more respect, or if my husband is right and I need massive amounts of work on myself to change. Blah. what do you all think? Thanks in advance.

hee hee, let me ask you this...what does HE do around the house? i mean it sounds like you're not lazy at all, 2 jobs. i would think that he needs to take this into consideration and you guys should share the workload as far as cleaning the house. i'm assuming he works also. from what i understand a marriage is supposed to be a partnership, not one person doing all the work while another complains. from where i'm standing i would think it would be only fair that you guys sit down and divide the chores amongst the both of you and rotate chores each week so no one gets burnt out doing the same mundane tasks over and over again. depending on how old the kids are they can pitch in and help too, i know as a child i was cutting grass and washing walls at 6!!

[bwebb]

OK, so he does A LOT around the house. He is excessive about keeping things off of floors and surfaces. He says he wants things clean but really he just wants things out of sight. But he gets on my case about "just throwing things in a basket" when he really just does the same thing. He feels entitled. He thinks I am not entitled to any down time.

[hvert]

You were messy when you guys met. You are still messy. If he thought that you would suddenly become less messy because you got married, he's the one with the problem.

I don't see how all your marriage problems are because you are messier than him. Many, many relationships have this conflict. I think him making you feel 'less than' is a much bigger problem than your housekeeping.

[hvert]

Also, you have a right to demand more respect and that he treat you properly even if you need to try harder to compromise about the messiness. They are two separate issues. Just because you have a flaw you'd like to work on doesn't mean that he can't be working on his own stuff It sounds like things have been kind of lopsided in that respect.

[bwebb]

Also, you have a right to demand more respect and that he treat you properly even if you need to try harder to compromise about the messiness. They are two separate issues. Just because you have a flaw you'd like to work on doesn't mean that he can't be working on his own stuff It sounds like things have been kind of lopsided in that respect.

Yes. This is all true. But how do I stand up for myself when he believes he is right? Whenever I have tried to assert myself in the past, he says something to make me feel stupid. For example just the other night he told me there is no point to his trying to work things out with me because I know what it takes to make him happy, I have always known, but I just don't care. I came back with "how could you say that? All I am ever consumed with is trying to make you happy." He says that I am saying that but I haven't really done anything to that affect. He says all the cleaning and keeping myself neater that I have done should not be about him, that these things should be done simply because they need to get done, and my making this about him is wrong. He said "It's not an act of love toward me to clean the house." And then he went on about how I am selfish and what I really want is for things to go back to him being miserable and just faking things, and me just reaping the benefits. When I said that if that were true, I wouldn't be bringing us to counselling and trying to make things better, he says that I am trying to make a display, put on the show of trying, but I really don't want to do the what it actually would take. He goes on and on about how I KNOW what needs to be done, and that it has been the same argument for years, and yet I bring us to counselling and try to talk about it, all instead of actually doing it!!!! I just don't know how to combat him and to assert myself.

[pj4101]

Originally Posted by bwebb

Yes. This is all true. But how do I stand up for myself when he believes he is right? Whenever I have tried to assert myself in the past, he says something to make me feel stupid. For example just the other night he told me there is no point to his trying to work things out with me because I know what it takes to make him happy, I have always known, but I just don't care. I came back with "how could you say that? All I am ever consumed with is trying to make you happy." He says that I am saying that but I haven't really done anything to that affect. He says all the cleaning and keeping myself neater that I have done should not be about him, that these things should be done simply because they need to get done, and my making this about him is wrong. He said "It's not an act of love toward me to clean the house." And then he went on about how I am selfish and what I really want is for things to go back to him being miserable and just faking things, and me just reaping the benefits. When I said that if that were true, I wouldn't be bringing us to counselling and trying to make things better, he says that I am trying to make a display, put on the show of trying, but I really don't want to do the what it actually would take. He goes on and on about how I KNOW what needs to be done, and that it has been the same argument for years, and yet I bring us to counselling and try to talk about it, all instead of actually doing it!!!! I just don't know how to combat him and to assert myself.

He believes he's right because then you're wrong from where I see it. What he's doing is psychological abuse. By putting you down, he feels superior. You say you have 2 children--if they're girls, they will learn that they have to take abuse from men and if they're boys they will learn women are inferior and it's okay to treat them without a morsel of respect. Your children won't care about a messy house as much as they will having an oasis of peace at home. If it's so darn important to him to have a neat house, let him clean it to his specifications. Sounds like there is more going on than whether you're Dolly Domestic. Find a good therapist or support group. Look out for yourself and your children. Don't try to placate a bully--he'll always find something to complain about.

[hvert]

Yeah, I have no idea how you 'win' that kind of argument. It sounds like he isn't taking any ownership of his own faults, one of which seems to be a failure to accept reality. It's nice that he wants you to be neater (or fill in the blank - it doesn't matter what your 'flaw' is), but you aren't. To tell you that it isn't good enough for you to clean the house 'for him' is just ridiculous, imo. He says he wants a clean house, you give it to him, and he claims that it doesn't count because you did it for the wrong reasons?

What is it that he really wants? For you to be a different person? For you to feel lousy?

I can't remember if you are seeing a therapist on your own as well, but maybe they would have some ideas about how to defend yourself appropriately.

What is he doing to make you happy? Has he acknowledged any of his own flaws or is this all on you?

[bwebb]

Thanks. I am seeing a therapist both with him and on my own. It's hard to start looking at things in this new way when for so long, I just believed I was the problem. Other things have come up now, but even the new stuff he is blaming on me. I know it can't all be my fault, I KNOW that. But it's just hard to see things from another point of view. I am working on it though. I am working on myself in therapy. I am trying to learn to be assertive and stand up for myself. Funny thing is though, i am assertive in most situations, just not with him. I am not sure why. But yes, I do not want my children believing that this is ok, so something must be done now, and i am trying. Thank you!!

[hvert]

It's weird, isn't it, how we can be assertive in some situations and not in others?

I am not sure if you feel this way too, but I find it difficult to realize that I've been like this for so long. I also feel like I have no idea where the line should be drawn. Maybe it's okay to err a bit on the side of sticking up for ourselves for a while

I hope you have good luck figuring this stuff out.