[SmileHere]

I've experienced this twice now. A friend went into a tirade against me when I said something she didn't like. I was staying at her place and had to be polite for the day, but decided to not stay at her place again. She did apologize at the end of my stay, and I knew she was going through hard times. Next time we saw each other she was all nice.

Another friend started some very uncomfortable topics when I was in the car with her, going long-distance. And in a sort of unfriendly way too. I know she was tired and cranky and going through possibly a difficult time too, but still.She didn't apologize as she said she was doing me a favour (?) and that I mustn't let things affect me so much.
I decided to not drive long-distance with her again!

I wish I could develop thicker skin, but at the same time I think it was rude of them for being as they were. I listened to them a lot and was supportive when they were going through hard times. I value politeness and supportive behaviour, and try to be polite and supportive even when it's not so easy. They say they want/value honest and direct approach, I'm uncomfortable with confrontations.

I don't know if there's a polite way of saying that I wish they spoke differently and I think they overstepped my boundaries.
Or do I just distance myself from them and that's it? But they are lovely charismatic people that I admire, otherwise.

How to assertively deal with one's friends?

PS I don't have that many friends and especially since I'd been diagnosed with schizophrenia I thought to better be accepting or they might not wish to be my friends anymore! But if they were being stressful, one wonders if it's worth it? (One also has a diagnosis and one doesn't.)

[SmileHere]

I guess I'll just sulk for a while and then tell the second friend.

The first friend, it's been a while, I'll just let it go - if she ever invites to stay with her, I'll say no thanks and 'you yelled at me'. She would like to be invited to our place, but honestly, don't know where to put her since the attic has been a mess, and I'm not that keen on her visiting anymore.

I'll still consider them friends but will try to meet other people too and not rely on them that much.
I feel like I have been too giving (with stuff and supportive/positive attention or communication, and they haven't really reciprocated that well). So I'll just stop being so giving and supportive, and see what happens? (Easier said than done, as I've read so many books on supportive/positive communication and listening yikes! I listen too 'well' and people felt they could 'unload' on me.
I don't know whether to just say I'm busy or someone is calling me to do something - works best with this friend, or just limit calls and not answer.) Ideally we'd have a constructive conversation about it, not sure if it's possible?

[lilypup]

Definitely try to meet more people. The more friends you have the more all this is "diluted". If one friend is rude, it doesn't matter so much. I did a blog entry on "Friends" that talks about how to meet and keep friends. Check it out if you need help getting started. Hugs.

[SmileHere]

Hey lilypup! Thanks!

Yeah, I would be interested in your blog entry, can you post a direct link to the entry?

I've known one of these friends for more than half my life, so I'll definitely work on improving the friendship (if possible). I think I really need/wish to meet new friends too. Not so easy with my diagnosis of 'schizophrenia' though maybe the break (as in 'car break' that I've been stepping on) is in my head?

I guess I need to find people fascinated with this or willing to accept it/me, as I am.

And yay for seeing trash cans talk! lol!

[hvert]

If by honest and direct, your friends just mean plain old rude, yeah, that sounds pretty discouraging.

I don't really have any great advice for this situation, but I can commiserate. When my friends do things like that, I often find that I would rather just end the relationship. I feel like talking to them about it won't make any difference because they are the way they are, you know? To me, it's like my options are either forgive and forget or stop seeing so much of them. Eventually I get to a point where I've 'forgiven' so much that the other person is just using me as a toxic waste dump and so I end the relationship. It's a lot better now that I've recognized my tendency to do this!

Your plan makes sense to me. I wouldn't want to stay with the friend who launched into the tirade and it sounds like it happened a while ago, so it's sort of late to bring it up. It's also good to be aware of how supportive you are vs how much support you receive. Things are never 50/50, but there really should be a balance over the years.

[Bill3]

Before you abandon these people, try being more assertive (if you aren't already assertive) in communicating your wishes. Assertive communication in these situations could be something like:

I'm sorry but I would rather not talk about that.

I asked you not to talk about that.

Just because you are doing me a favor doesn't mean I have to do everything you say.

It is very hurtful when you yell at me.

It is not my fault when you choose to yell at me.

I understand that you consider me to be too sensitive, but I still don't want to talk about that.

It is hard for me to say this, but I still don't want to talk about that.

It is very hurtful when you completely ignore my wishes.

[SmileHere]

Thanks hvert & Bill3!

Friend #2 has been calling me, I ignored the calls partly on purpose partly cause I wasn't able to answer/listen/talk at the time, and she texted me with 'such is Life' or something like that, putting the blame on me again, for being so 'oversensitive' or such. At least that is the way I interpreted it. I tried to be more assertive about my feelings/wishes, but she still didn't 'get' it (hard to do over text message/s). I'm a bit at a loss over what kind of words to use, although we 'practiced' a bit with my psychologist - who said she lacks in empathy, apparently, which may be true.

Friend #1 still wishes to come to our house, yikes. I haven't said anything of the past. I let it slide and we just talked about other things.

[Bill3]

Well being assertive just improves the chances of getting what you want, getting treated better. It doesn't guarantee it!

If Friend #2 is just unable to treat you with consideration and empathy, you will eventually have to decide how much contact you are willing to have with her.

[SmileHere]

Well, we 'cleared the air' a bit with friend #2, apparently she does have consideration/esteem for me (or only wants more free language lessons, the jury is still a bit out on that) It was via text messages, I may have used language like 'I am not a waste basket' and 'You behaved like an elephant in a porcelain store, like my dad.' I think she was pretty furious about it all, that I 'make mountains out of mole hills', but we're ok now, I think. We'll see how it goes in the future.

The question of my self esteem was raised, and indeed, had I better self esteem I'd probably nip this kind of behaviour in the bud and wouldn't allow it to 'get to me', in the ideal world. We live in a less than ideal world though, and I told her I have enough esteem of myself to try to clarify things when needed.

I wish I knew how to 'not let things get to me' so much though? It can be the tone of voice and/or language used... Some of it can be a misunderstanding, and it's good to clarify things, I wish I had 'thicker skin' though! Any suggestions?

Thank you everyone for bearing with me through this!

[Bill3]

When you become more assertive you will also develop greater self-respect. Part of respect for persons involves the person being able to stand up for herself, to be appropriately assertive, neither more nor less than that.

I wish I knew how to 'not let things get to me' so much though?

Could you please tell us about a typical situation in which something "got to" you? I am envisioning you describing the situation, what happened, how you felt, how you acted, the consequences, and how you might better have handled things.

Thanks! I know it is a lot of questions (if okay with you).

[IchbinkeinTeufel]

They say they want/value honest and direct approach, I'm uncomfortable with confrontations.

To be frank, I'm utterly fed up of people who are "direct" and "honest", ... in other words, rude, disrespectful, offensive, tactless, hurtful, etc. I'm tired of having to feel like it's my problem. I totally relate to your situation. I'm a sensitive person, too, and while it might feel like that's a bad thing, I think sometimes it's a good thing. We have a strong sense of what we want and don't want in how people treat us. Sure, we might be oversensitive, but it's better than being a doormat!

Sorry, I should be more specific, ... I'm actually referring to people who are those bad things but use "direct" and "honest" as an excuse, as though that makes it OK. I can be honest and direct myself, but I like to think I'm not a complete bum about it. (God, I hope)

You perhaps wouldn't look at me and think, "Gee, he's super sensitive, I best be careful what I say in-case I break his iddy-biddy heart." xD Just goes to show that you shouldn't judge a book by its cover. I'm actually a very gentle guy, for the most part. I hate confrontation because it equals a ton of anxiety, but it's just that I've had a lot of practice with it over the years. ¬_¬

Not gonna lie, I'm insecure as all balls.

PS,
I don't have many friends, either. xD Friendships take energy and time; I've only got so much of both to give. Plus, trust issues...

[SmileHere]

Originally Posted by Bill3

Could you please tell us about a typical situation in which something "got to" you? I am envisioning you describing the situation, what happened, how you felt, how you acted, the consequences, and how you might better have handled things.

Like this situation above, with friend #2. She said some things and I felt hurt/uncomfortable, didn't react immediately, but then she said some more things (with her vehement tone of voice) and I started crying. Then she got upset with me and I got even more upset.
She didn't do this on purpose, so why did I get so upset?

Or when I was at school, teaching, and I cried in the classroom cause they (two or three high school kids) were being rude and disrespectful or even threatening to me. And I was under a lot of external stress then (Granny had cancer, parents were retiring and stressed about money...)

I'd especially like to stop the 'crying' mechanism whenever I feel 'in danger' or threatened. (And under a lot of stress.) I know it probably stems from my father, he could be rude and crossing boundaries too, but usually stopped when I cried.
I've cried at good things too, sometimes, when touched or moved...
Once it may have even saved my life when I was attacked.

It would be better if I didn't cry in such 'innocent'/job-related situations and would just calmly express my sentiments that I do not like that kind of behaviour, that I expect them to apologize (when appropriate) and behave better...

That's sort of what I can come up with right now.
I've looked into the sweets/gluten sensitivity and there might be some connection, got my episode of psychosis/schizophrenia when I was living gluten-free, and don't currently dare to go gluten-free again.
(I once had a crying spell in an inappropriate situation when it was about something I held important and I ate some bread when I was gluten-free, or when I drank some very sweet juice... It might or might not be related.)

A bit afraid I'd cry or 'overreact' in a job/career-related situation again (when I would have one). Might need to start another thread about that though

[SmileHere]

Zwangsstörung,

Thanks for relating!

Part of the problem is I admire these people who are "direct" and "honest", ... and like them a lot in a lot of ways... but I wish they wouldn't be rude, disrespectful, offensive, tactless, hurtful, etc.

They probably aren't mind readers though and may not even know something they said was very hurtful. I'm a fairly quiet person often and they might not pick up subtle clues.

In my case I think partly it has been my problem for not standing up for myself sooner and being more assertive, I just thought 'it's not that big a deal' in smaller situations, but these things add up. And didn't quite find the language to stand up for myself - it's really difficult for me without going into 'drama'. And I wished them to remain my friends...
I may need 'no big deal' language or ways of coping with mildly uncomfortable situations before they 'escalate'.

I think sometimes/often being sensitive is a good thing too. We pay better attention to how others are feeling, and can be good friends, though it can be overwhelming too. I'd feel honored when they trusted me with 'difficult' things, but I'm not a paid therapist and sometimes didn't know what to say.

I agree with you about a lot you say.

I hear you about the friendships.

Friendships take energy and time; I've only got so much of both to give.

I do wish to find more good friendships, it's not so easy though. We drifted apart with some good friends who were more sensitive and attentive due to life circumstances, living in different parts of the country, different lifestyles....

[Bill3]

Thanks for your response. You mentioned a psychologist in one of your posts. What does she/he say about the crying?

[SmileHere]

Originally Posted by Bill3

Thanks for your response. You mentioned a psychologist in one of your posts. What does she/he say about the crying?

She seemed to be more along the lines of 'accept oneself' that one is more sensitive and such, to accept one's emotions... She didn't have any directly helpful remarks or ideas/pointers on how to prevent it, at least at the time.

[Bill3]

I can see the concept of accepting that one is a highly sensitive person and working with that personality trait. In fact, you might consider these books in that regard if you don't already know of them (check out the reviews first though, not everyone likes these books, but you can decide whether or not they would work for you):

The Highly Sensitive Person's Survival Guide: Essential Skills for Living Well in an Overstimulating World (Step-By-Step Guides): Ted Zeff PhD, Elaine Aron PhD: 9781572243965: Amazon.com: Books

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_no...itive%20person

On the topic of crying, though, I think your position is that it interferes with your life and you don't want to accept that, you want to change.

It sounds like it will take some effort to change, though, because crying has been functional and therefore reinforcing for you in the past, particularly with regard to your father. In the past, it was a form of self-preservation, self-defense, and in some ways maybe it still is.

I would say that the first thing to do is to be aware of it, without judgment. For a while, long enough to document a full and accurate picture, my suggestion is to keep a list of sorts; briefly jot down how the situation developed and what happened right before you started to cry.

No matter what happens, do not judge yourself for crying; this reaction helped you when you were growing up and now you are just going to move on from that reaction because in most situations it isn't as helpful now as it was when you were growing up.

(Do you still cry with your parents? If so, please speak a bit about that.)

She said some things and I felt hurt/uncomfortable, didn't react immediately, but then she said some more things (with her vehement tone of voice) and I started crying. Then she got upset with me and I got even more upset.
She didn't do this on purpose, so why did I get so upset?

Here are a few questions about this situation:

1. What stopped you from reacting immediately?
2. How much (if at all) does yelling get you upset when it is not directed at you?
3. How much did you get yelled at growing up?

Thanks!

[SmileHere]

Aww, this post almost made me cry, a bit. My eyes were watery - then, there was a distraction, Dad came looking for some nails, pushing away the gym equipment in my immediate space... and it stopped the process! This makes me hopeful I could 'distract' myself with physical actions/looking away and watching something maybe? It was unexpected, I didn't know what was going on, and it stopped me in the tracks!

In the situation with my friend, it stopped me that I thought 'Oh she doesn't know what to talk about, she doesn't mean any harm, she's just talking....' Then, she said something that really hurt me and tears just came. She said, 'You hurt your mother so much...' (and continued 'your Dad hurt her so much too... that she is now less critical and way more accepting.' So it was an overall positive statement. But I don't go around telling friends they hurt their mothers so much!! She then went on how she hurt her mother so much too, and that kids/daughters hurt mums, 'it's the way things are' and she was just 'such is life' and I was just crying. Because I disagree, such is not life, not all kids hurt parents 'so much', and I was feeling guilty about something like that before already... She said before that my mother looks so 'aged' and I felt guilty even then...) Looking back, it does seem like I cried 'over nothing', but I'm also glad this friend and I 'talked'/texted and clarified some things.

Yeah, I was aware of the concept of HSP. I haven't actually read any of the books, just information online. Thanks for posting the list of books - didn't know there were so many! A bit hard to choose, and I've been a bit strapped for money...

I mostly don't cry with my parents anymore, or maybe very rarely. Haven't since the diagnosis. We get along much better than we used to since my diagnosis, they are more accepting and I adapted to them a bit too.

Originally Posted by Bill3

Here are a few questions about this situation:

1. What stopped you from reacting immediately?
2. How much (if at all) does yelling get you upset when it is not directed at you?
3. How much did you get yelled at growing up?

Thanks!

Yelling does get me upset, I've had 'hyperacusis' (noise/sound sensitivity) for a few years now too, it started at my teaching job in a time of stress, then it was okay, a few years later it went way worse... I've tried to stay away or leave into another room if other people yelled at each other or were loud.
When people yelled/expressed extremely negative feelings out loud I've been extremely uncomfortable too.

I got yelled at growing up a bit, mum yelled at dad (a lot, not very loudly, but with criticism and 'nagging', she has had high standards and he is fast but not so precise, they had differences because of religion and upbringing of kids and because dad was away from home a lot etc.)

Dad would sometimes go into 'tank' mode and mum was a 'granate' (if you read Dealing with Difficult People by R. Kirschner and R. Brinkman, that book was quite helpful too). So I learnt to deal with my parents somehow, it hasn't been so easy with other people though, especially if they got me 'unexpectedly' or I thought injustice was being done to me, and if I felt somewhat guilty alongside it all.

Thanks for listening!

[Bill3]

Thanks! If okay to still ask before making a fuller reply, what stopped you from reacting immediately with Friend #2?

[SmileHere]

Originally Posted by Bill3

Thanks! If okay to still ask before making a fuller reply, what stopped you from reacting immediately with Friend #2?

hmm, not sure if I understand the question - do you mean what stopped me from being more assertive with her sooner, like to say 'This topic and the way you approach it so casually and in a loud way is making me feel uncomfortable' or to say 'Let's change topics?' when she was going on about my work history and how I called her crying (I didn't want to be called a sissy, or something like that, plus she had called me crying about her job problem/s too), when she spoke about my mum that way - I was crying and 'in a state' so I didn't even contemplate trying to get assertive...

The whole car trip was stressful for me, partly because she was occasionally smoking (I'm a non-smoker and for healthy living) and throwing the butts out of the car window (and she says she LOVES Nature!!) partly because of some other things... It just added up, I guess... She can get very 'defensive' (and loud) if confronted (like with the cigarette butts), so I preferred to not get into a direct confrontation with her when possible. But talking via texting was acceptable to me, even if she used some 'loud' language/'rolling of the eyes' or such... (she can't be that 'loud' via a text message! lol)

[Bill3]

Thanks! It certainly makes sense that that trip was stressful for you!

I was asking about this passage:

She said some things and I felt hurt/uncomfortable, didn't react immediately

What prevented you from reacting immediately?

[SmileHere]

Originally Posted by Bill3

Thanks! It certainly makes sense that that trip was stressful for you!
I was asking about this passage:
What prevented you from reacting immediately?

As said above, I didn't want to go into a confrontation with her and have her go loud at me (in the car). She'd probably start yelling how it's no big a deal (like she did after the crying part) and that I have to get used to 'life' or something like that.

After this texting yesterday I think I have a fair chance of being able to talk more rationally with her if any such situation arose again. (But I'd still prefer to not go in the car long distance with her lol)

[Bill3]

So it sounds like you are developing a better understanding of how to be assertive, and putting that understanding into practice. The main problem, though, is your visceral reaction to shouting or hostility--you start crying. This is what you want to work on now and try to change.

[SmileHere]

Originally Posted by Bill3

So it sounds like you are developing a better understanding of how to be assertive, and putting that understanding into practice. The main problem, though, is your visceral reaction to shouting or hostility--you start crying. This is what you want to work on now and try to change.

Yup. I want to have a choice whether to cry or not, especially in relatively 'harmless' situations where not crying would be a more appropriate response.

[healingme4me]

Originally Posted by SmileHere

I wish I knew how to 'not let things get to me' so much though? It can be the tone of voice and/or language used... Some of it can be a misunderstanding, and it's good to clarify things, I wish I had 'thicker skin' though! Any suggestions?

Thank you everyone for bearing with me through this!

I believe that thicker skin, comes from a tremendous amount of self acceptance. For instance, your first post alludes to an implied sense of having to take what you can get, in friends, because you 'have schizophrenia' . In that mindset, it's more like schizophrenia has you, not that this is you, someone who just so happens to have schizophrenia.

Being assetive, isn't about being aggressive. It does involve a degree of confrontation, or even something as simple as, asking for clarification. (Statements such as, 'what do you mean, by that? ' could be coupled with, I don't want any misunderstanding, could you elaborate) those are assertive, polite, yet gets you to behave more directly, without having to grow resentment nor wonderment.

[ParanoidPizza]

Originally Posted by SmileHere

Thanks hvert & Bill3!

Friend #2 has been calling me, I ignored the calls partly on purpose partly cause I wasn't able to answer/listen/talk at the time, and she texted me with 'such is Life' or something like that, putting the blame on me again, for being so 'oversensitive' or such. At least that is the way I interpreted it. I tried to be more assertive about my feelings/wishes, but she still didn't 'get' it (hard to do over text message/s). I'm a bit at a loss over what kind of words to use, although we 'practiced' a bit with my psychologist - who said she lacks in empathy, apparently, which may be true.

Friend #1 still wishes to come to our house, yikes. I haven't said anything of the past. I let it slide and we just talked about other things.

Regardless if you are oversensitive or not, your friends should act like friends. It does sound like they lack empathy.

It seems they tell you your oversensitive because they can't and won't acknowledge their shortcomings and insensitivity. It's common for those who feel like they have done a lot wrong to project their feelings of self hate onto who they see as a "better" person.

People don't like to admit to their faults; it's much easier for them to blame you.

Take care.