[randomne]

Hi,

It was easier to find a forum for English speakers, sorry for bad language skills.
I haven't found yet a dedicated forum/website for virgins, but these psychology forums have threads where I can find similar people.

I'm 28, male. I have never had a girlfriend. I am not ugly, but I am skinny, weaker than many women. I can not find my partner on dating websites, because there are not many registered users near my place. When I was younger, I loved to chat online with people I just first met, but nowadays those chat rooms are empty. That was about, why I am not looking for relationship online.

I choose my friends, they are all women. People rarely try to befriend me, I don't mind talking to strangers, I have no problem making new friend, if she accepts me. Now I don't have any friend for reasons. If you are still reading this, let me tell you, this post is not about being a virgin or not. I have no reasons to think that losing virginity should be a higher priority thing in my life. When I meet someone, I want to know about her first, sleeping with her at the first night is no no, not that I have experience to say this, but oh well.

I have no ideal woman. I like people being themselves. Sometimes I met people, who expect from men to be more manly. I like being myself, others' expectations are often high. If I don't expect anything from others, it's easier to find a good person, even with her weaknesses. About women' beauty: I often dream about average looking women, in the real life I don't like beauties. I would prefer if one day I could meet someone who doesn't have abundant experience with men, not necessary zero experience.

I like sitting in a silent room, helps me thinking, but I am also talkative if there is a common topic I can talk with others about. It's kinda hard to approach women. I want to know them as a friend, I guess not every men do this at me age. But I'm also looking for relationship. But I don't want to turn friends to lovers, these are separate things. Not that any of my friends showed interest in me, to be their boyfriend. I like girly talks, they are looking me like o.o when I show a slight interest about their topics.

I read that I don't have to hide that I'm single. If people ask me about being single or not, I answer honestly, even if they laugh, I don't like that. Being a single. Why. People call me short tempered, but I would never hurt anyone, I am the type of man who tries to stay away from fights. I just don't like ignorance, and I often tell this fact to anyone. I know no hierarchy, boss and coworker, popular or lonely, every people are alike for me. Not that weaker people accept help from me.

I need someone to talk about these. That's why I will post these on every forum I can find, I hope the Internet is ready for this.

[Raindropvampire]

Welcome to Psych Central.

[Trippin2.0]

More often than not, the strongest relationships are formed out of friendship. The two don't have to remain separate.

[OneInBillions]

It's a lonely existence for sure. I'm 31 and still a virgin. But my case is mostly due to avoidance thanks to acute social phobia. I'm afraid of women my own age, and cannot relate to them. Plus I had unrealistic expectations and standards in my teens.

Still I can kind of relate. I'm not a very masculine guy either and have always been weak, emotionally and physically. I know there's a notion that it's shameful or pathetic for a guy to have no experience, but I say ignore people who think that. I agree with Trippin2.0, friends who turn into lovers can have very strong relationships, in fact that's always been my ideal dream. Too bad I can't even make friends.

[Talthybius]

I am in a similar situation. You can read about my story here:
http://forums.psychcentral.com/relat...n-romance.html

I think your OP is confusing. You don't think it is important if someone is a virgin or not, but it is in the title.

You have female friends only, but nothing happens.

What is going 'wrong'?

For myself, I have strong schizoid tendencies and possibly give people strange/bad vibes unintentionally.
I am very masculine, in a way, though others may not agree.

My mind is not wired for the human mating ritual. I am too stubborn to engage in it and too schizoid to be interested in it, unless I fall in love, which rarely happens but has the more impact.

My rational side blocks out my emotional size. I despise myself for only liking very attractive females. If I don't find a female attractive, everything she says and does is less fun, smart, witty, interesting. And I hate that. It is not fair.

I think most people have no clue about what they are attracted to and why they are. They just have this instinct that they follow.

Becoming friends first, then lovers, can happen. But think about what is the romantic fantasy of the average female. That is what she really wants. Whether she knows it or is willing to accept it.

The world of romance is the most cutthroat toughest competitive arena of all human endeavors. But in theory it is easy.
You have to be perceived as a high value person in the eyes of the woman you are interested in. Then, you have to offer her the romantic fantasy she wants to experience.

As a man, if you can't be masculine, your value goes down by a lot. If you can't make decisions, she won't like you. If she tests your strength and you just cave in, she dominates your personality, you are perceived as weak. Her instincts tell her she should avoid a weak male at all cost.

[randomne]

Originally Posted by Trippin2.0

More often than not, the strongest relationships are formed out of friendship. The two don't have to remain separate.

When I can not figure out friend's feelings, I easily miss a chance. I can get easily discouraged, I give up after a year or so, and keep our relationship as friends.

Originally Posted by OneInBillions

It's a lonely existence for sure. I'm 31 and still a virgin. But my case is mostly due to avoidance thanks to acute social phobia. I'm afraid of women my own age, and cannot relate to them. Plus I had unrealistic expectations and standards in my teens.

I know there's a notion that it's shameful or pathetic for a guy to have no experience, but I say ignore people who think that.

It was said once I get a little older, more women my age will be looking for (stable) relationship. I don't think I got more popular in the last years. I don't know if others' expectations get lower over time.
I still blush when I have to face a nice woman, or when others are telling me a dirty joke.

Originally Posted by Talthybius

As a man, if you can't be masculine, your value goes down by a lot. If you can't make decisions, she won't like you. If she tests your strength and you just cave in, she dominates your personality, you are perceived as weak. Her instincts tell her she should avoid a weak male at all cost.

I was born like this, I physically can not be more masculine for reasons, I accepted that. I am simple minded, yet it doesn't mean I can not overcomplicate things.
I don't really get why a man should behave like a man, or a woman should behave like a woman. Girls, women kindness affected me throughout my life, I'm always thinking about them as a potential talking partner. Physical attraction goes only after months I get to know them.

Originally Posted by Talthybius

You don't think it is important if someone is a virgin or not, but it is in the title.

I don't want to overthink this, because it hurts. It does bother me, because I'm still in that illusion, that in a relationship physical touch is a secondary thing.
I'm still in the middle of your story, haven't finished reading yet. Surprisingly there are a few similar things happened throughout our life up to a certain stage, it's not just about relationships. But I had to make every decision myself, that's why one of my friends become my friend, she were searching for someone to rely on. ( I don't have her anymore )

[Talthybius]

Humans are animals. We have instincts wired through evolution to reproduce. There is this idea going around that in human evolutionary history, only a small number of males reproduced. It is a question about if a female would rather share a high value male with other females, or have a lower value male of her own. Hard to test such a hypothesis.
Reproductive strategy is essential for males as it is for females. And this is a very strong driving force in the evolution of unusual traits seen in nature. Be it the feathers of the male peacock or the human brain.

We are also social creatures that need relationships. The need to find a mate to reproduce exists independently of the need for social relationships and friendship.

Why do females generally respond to masculine energy? Why do they have to? It is not a matter of choice for them, just as it isn't for males.

Females have to pick the best male they can find and get to pass on their genes to their child and protect their child. What does 'best' mean? It means whatever males genes are good for their female genes to survive in the world where humans evolved (and for a large part that is human hunter-gatherer societies ie 'caveman'.).

For the second part, you need someone that is responsible, has leadership, is confident and brave. And as the female takes much more risk in getting pregnant than the male, the male can just walk away and find some other female, the female has to be much much more critical about who she gets romantically engaged with. And this is wired into her brain.
Call it being 'alpha' vs 'beta'. And don't think about that in terms of men who are abusive and irresponsible vs guys who are nerds and feminine. Think about it in terms of being successful and exciting vs being a failure and boring. And yes, for the most part that means being a male that is confident and has strong social skills.

Originally Posted by randomne

...

I need someone to talk about these. That's why I will post these on every forum I can find, I hope the Internet is ready for this.

Good step. Hopefully you will find some helpful feedback here.

[randomne]

I may change my mind - I should say I may realize what I said was wrong - , or I may regret what I said on the forum. But here it is.

Originally Posted by Talthybius

Humans are animals. We have instincts wired through evolution to reproduce. There is this idea going around that in human evolutionary history, only a small number of males reproduced. It is a question about if a female would rather share a high value male with other females, or have a lower value male of her own. Hard to test such a hypothesis.

And this is wired into her brain.

I thought humans can have delusions. Are instincts always superior?
I don't know what I'm missing, I'm inexperienced.

Originally Posted by Talthybius

They just have this instinct that they follow.

... You have to be perceived as a high value person in the eyes of the woman you are interested in.

Having someone who has been driven only by instincts is not romantic in any way.
I'm usually looking for someone who has a slight idea about what she is after.
That doesn't prevent me to meet her, whoever she is. But I'm not available for a short relationship. All my friends had already a boyfriend, even if I know about that or not.
I don't buy tickets to roller coaster.

I think, people don't deserve to be alone.
I'm attracted to less prettier women, that's why I never felt an urge to be superior to someone else.

Sometimes it is necessary to don't think about love, to improve yourself, your career, but still, every moment I live alone means there is someone who will be snatched away from me, before I can meet her.

Originally Posted by Talthybius

And as the female takes much more risk in getting pregnant than the male, the male can just walk away and find some other female, the female has to be much much more critical about who she gets romantically engaged with.

What about millennials who don't want kids? Are they on the wrong path, and I am only following those, because it is more convenient this way?

Originally Posted by Talthybius

Think about it in terms of being successful and exciting vs being a failure and boring. And yes, for the most part that means being a male that is confident and has strong social skills.

Being imperfect. I had to visit speech therapist for three years, because I can not pronounce certain consonants. She gave up, saying I won't improve.
I regularly talk with foreign people online, compared to some of them I have a huge phonetic inventory. There are languages I have less problem with the phonetics. Having or not having strong social skills, depends on language, maybe on your parents' social skills, and on your friends' social skills.

I have always thought strong social skills are one of the necessary skills in the moderns society, one more excuse for something as knows as social exclusion. I don't want to continue on this last sentence, because I think it is against the Terms of Use.

This is one more sign, that I haven't tried to connect dots, maybe I lack common sense.

Originally Posted by Wandering Soul

Good step. Hopefully you will find some helpful advice here. That's all I can say.

And then put it into practice.

I think any feedback could change your mind/view/feelings if it was supportive. Just talk and reach out. I personally don't look for practical advice, but for someone to listen. Good luck

[Talthybius]

Look. Don't shoot the messenger. I already said I don't like the message.

Also, they are instincts for a reason. It has nothing to do with if they want children or not.

No on is on the wrong path. What path you should take depends on your goal. But if you want to develop a romantic relationship, you have a goal. And not all roads lead to that goal, obviously. Only a small number of paths lead there. Especially when we are talking about healthy and successful romantic relationships, because let's be frank; most romantic relationships out there are flawed.

These girls you talk about, you were never interested in more than a platonic friendship? If so, why did nothing happen between you and them? Assuming not all of them were never single.

If you want a girl that's not physically attractive, you suddenly have way less competition and there is way less pressure on you to show you are superior to all the other men out there that this girl could get if she was more attractive.

I know there is a big difference between saying the 'right' thing and doing the 'right' thing. I can't practice what I preach. But at least by now I can accept this is how it is. I used not to be able to do so.
At least you have what you would call friends. I don't.

A lot of people here will say supporting things, things to make you feel better. But if you want change in your life, you have to change things.

Think in small steps. Don't tell yourself you were born a certain way, have been dealt a certain hand in life, and can never change or improve.
You don't have to deny who you are, just adjust and evolve as you progress through life.

Don't reduce something as social skills or masculinity to one specific quality you lack.

Don't say you don't want a short relationship. A relationship happens on a day to day, or moment to moment, basis, be it romantic or platonic. If you only start a relationship when you know it is long-term, you won't be starting one, ever. If you tell a the average woman that you are only interested in long term relationships, you can count on it that that will drop her interest.

As a male your duty is to make sure she has a fun time when she is with you, whatever 'fun' means to her. It is her job to decide on when you have a relationship. As a man, it is not your decision to make.

Romance is the most unfair endeavor humans engage in. You can't ask for fairness. No one is telling you you have to engage in it. You can be a male girlfriend and nothing else, as you have experienced. No one is saying you can't have a happy satisfied life if you don't experience romance.
But if you want to go after woman not a lot of other men are interested in, then that's a huge bonus. If it is ever shown that less attractive woman have better personalities and are more suited for healthy relationships, I won't be surprised.

Consider how unfair romance is to unattractive woman.

[randomne]

First I need to think over everything.

Originally Posted by Talthybius

You can't ask for fairness.

About this. I think I can agree with Shadix on the other thread.
But his circumstances are different.
Oh, but there is other thing. He got a reply.

You are much more likely to be screwing your own chances of dating with your own belief systems. You are not being screwed over due to anyone else. It's all you.

I heard it many times, but it's hard to accept there is not a single woman who doesn't have that same quirk problem in her head.

The loose end was found pretty quickly. I wonder what else I missed in the past years.

Talthybius, thank you for the reminders.

Anyone has something to share, I look forward to it.