I'm feeling pretty sad tonight.

Many on here know that I've had a sort of breaking off (not really a breakup) of a relationship that meant something to me. It was my choice, but still, I felt more hurt than angry about things, felt taken in and mislead. I wanted to know why certain things happened, and I fired off a few accusatory texts in the last few days until this morning when he said, "You've got to let this go. You're ruminating, and the anger is looping in on itself. It's unhealthy." That, of course, escalated how I was feeling. But it's true; it's not healthy. When I examine how I feel, I'm not so much angry as hurt, embarrassed for allowing myself to be vulnerable and trusting in what now looks like such an obviously dumb situation, stupid for rationalizing even when I didn't think I was (I thought I was making healthy compromises and allowing space for the other person). I feel embarrassed for ruminating and not letting things go, because that's my m.o., and I don't know why I can't just get past it. I feel like maybe I want the other person to show that they feel badly about things too, that they had hopes that are also now let down. Maybe I wanted some kind of emotional tradeoff, to not feel like I'm the only one who invested something and got hurt, here. Most of all I feel silly and stupid for believing in a fairy tale situation, for allowing my imagination to run away with me and essentially falling for an idea rather than a person. When it comes down to it, I didn't really know the person, because he didn't let me in enough to know him. And I don't think he really knew enough about me. I know, I know, it was long distance and you can't really know things til you meet. I know. But besides that. I think both of us liked the idea of each other. I liked who I knew him to be when we were in the same online community back in 2006-2011...and that's not him, now. He doesn't participate in the hobby as much, his personality has changed. Heck, he doesn't even look the same. But that is the person I had a crush on.

I would be lying if I said I didn't have some relief that it is over, because there was a lot of stress involved with it. I don't think that in my current place in life, starting a new career, having to go back to school at the end of the summer, and all of that, I'm in a good place to start a relationship. But it's been so long. And I want one. Mainly though, I want the companionship, I want the closeness. I want the validation of someone who wants me. And I want to give in a relationship to someone else. But I don't even know if I have anything to give anymore. I watch my friends in their relationships, in varying stages, and I want to be happy for them because that is what a friend does. But I feel empty. I don't really even feel like I have anything to give my friends.

I never wanted to be the person who blames my family, but I do blame them. My parents seriously effed me up. And I know I have lived longer without them in my life than I have with them in my life, but I'm so angry that they left me to fend for myself in this world without the skills to be able to form healthy, easy friendships and healthy, loving relationships. These were all things they were supposed to teach me, and they never did. I've worked for years and years and years with therapists and have just barely scratched the surface of all of it. Mainly, I'm self-aware. Great. So I know I suck at relationships. I still don't know how to navigate, or even what a healthy one looks like. People keep telling me, "When you're in one, you'll know." No...I won't. That's like telling a person who has never had eyes and suddenly has them, and keeps mistaking cats for sheep, "No, those aren't sheep. But when a sheep walks in front of you, you will know it is a sheep!" No.

I don't know exactly what I need tonight. Part of me wants JD to text me right now, and tell me it's gonna be fine, we didn't work, but we'll eventually be friends again. I hate losing people, even if it was my decision. Part of me wants someone to hold onto me while I cry and cry. I'm realizing that I'm pretty starved for affection; I am rarely touched by anyone period, let alone hugged or touched in an affectionate way. Part of me just wants to go back to before I tried to date again, before I put my profile online this past January, before I had the crazy idea to get in touch with JD again in March. And most of me just doesn't want to feel anything.

[divine1966]

I am sorry you are hurting. I wonder if you discuss with your therapist details of developing relationship.

For example when you started talking to this person did you tell her exactly what he says and what you say etc? It's almost like needing a life coach to guide you through. Somebody who would not be afraid to say it how it is and wouldn't let you rationalize.

What does your t say about this? Also I wonder do you have list of red flags and deal breakers? Things that you know for sure don't work for you? Also can you talk to your t about how to recognize signs that man is into you. Something you should look for.

I feel that people who don't have role model of healthy relationship ( I can relate, I didn't have it either, my parents are not role models in regards to relationships) need someone to guide them towards it.



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Originally Posted by divine1966

I am sorry you are hurting. I wonder if you discuss with your therapist details of developing relationship.

For example when you started talking to this person did you tell her exactly what he says and what you say etc? It's almost like needing a life coach to guide you through. Somebody who would not be afraid to say it how it is and wouldn't let you rationalize.

What does your t say about this? Also I wonder do you have list of red flags and deal breakers? Things that you know for sure don't work for you? Also can you talk to your t about how to recognize signs that man is into you. Something you should look for.

I feel that people who don't have role model of healthy relationship ( I can relate, I didn't have it either, my parents are not role models in regards to relationships) need someone to guide them towards it.



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I discussed everything with my T, right down to he said, I said. She was very encouraging. To be fair, we didn't start really devolving until Monday. Everything looked, essentially, fine until then. And my appointment was Friday. But, before then, I told her how I would ask him to call and he was tired and we would set a day to call. She felt this was fine. I told her about every conversation. Her feedback was basically, "Can you accept that he, or anyone, finds you beautiful, funny, and interesting?" (Because this was something he said), and we discussed that. There was also the discussion about how I got anxious over certain things, and he would tell me, "Breathe. It's going to be okay. Really, truly." And she told me, "That sounds like something you need to hear. Does it feel good to hear this? Is this something you really think you can do in this relationship? Can you allow yourself to relax with this person and trust him?" And I said yes. And she said, "That's a good feeling for you."

So yeah. My T was actually on board with it. And we do discuss relationships pretty in-depth. But most people who have been communicating with me know that, as I've said it a few times.

I do have a list of deal breakers. One is not communicating with me. Which is why I'm not in a relationship or whatever it was any longer. Another is lying, and another is inattentiveness (which I guess is another reason why I'm not in anything any longer). But I don't know now any of that helps, since there wasn't a problem.

You keep talking about red flags and deal breakers and how you saw them from the beginning. Do you just not like long distance relationships, or do you just have a box that all relationships should be in? Because my relationships, should I ever be in one (unlikely), aren't going to fit in a box. They just aren't going to look like what they apparently are supposed to. I am not someone people find readily attractive (though apparently, I hear, I'm pretty. Okay, whatever). I have not been in a relationship for 7 years. I have not ever been asked out on a date. Ever. Never, ever. I have always done the asking. And I am 38 damn years old. So, you know what? When a man I have respected for a long time and find attractive tells me he has been crushing on me for four years, and he wants to get to know me, I'm going to go for it. When, in subsequent weeks, he makes me feel really great about myself and communicates with me, and there are no red flags, I'm going to go with it. When, after I pushed him away, he still comes back, I'm going to go with it. What red flags, before Monday, are you talking about? He didn't have them before then. He's not like the previous guy, he isn't shady. He's emotionally unavailable but, until this past week, I would have had no idea. He never showed me that. It's a lot more difficult to find that out when you're talking to someone long distance.

I'm sorry, I know you're trying to help, but the questions, on repeat (because I've heard them multiple times) make me feel like I'm some kind of idiot. I had no way of knowing, in this case.

I don't really want to hash over what I could have done differently. I don't care right now, as it doesn't matter. I am hurting, I am lonely, I am affection starved, I miss my friend. And I just want to stop hurting.

[divine1966]

Of course you aren't an idiot. I don't know what red flags he had. It was just s general idea of watching for them. I am the last person to know how things should be. Although I did get better in seeing things clearer but heck I am old!

I have nothing against long distance. I had long distance relationship. I didn't see a problem with long distance for you. Not at all. In fact I even thought it would be good you move there

I don't think there is any box that relationship need to fit in. I am the last person to think that. I lived with recovering ( not very successful) alcoholic for 9 years. In hopes he'd strop relapsing. And he never did. Promptly relapsed about every 3-6 months. I gave up. Couldn't do it anymore. That's certainly not something that would fit in any box. He almost died when I left, couldn't handle it and he is pretty much killing himself now. I did feel very guilty leaving as he non stop drinks for the past two years. I am friends with his kids as they understood why I left and why I refused to marry him, they also know I am getting married now. But we all watch the train wreck with their dad. It is the saddest and the most painful story of my life. I don't dwell on it but it's always there. If I knew how things are supposed to be or where relationship supposed to fit I'd never spent a decade in
hopes an addict would recover and that many years later realizing he never will. I don't regret as we had beautiful love and he loved me dearly but it's still it is a decade of my life!!!!

Overall I was an idiot most of my life when it comes to men. That's why I brought up an example. One way or the other I made a lot of mistakes . I am the last to judge. I just speak from experience.

PS talking about unavailable men I can't really give any advice as I lived with alcoholic, it doesn't get more unavailable and more red flags than that plus it took me THAT long to say enough. So there is no judgement here


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[Pikku Myy]

You need to find yourself first before you can truly love anyone else Lean to love you. Simple good luck... not easy

Originally Posted by Pikku Myy

You need to find yourself first before you can truly love anyone else Lean to love you. Simple good luck... not easy

I found myself. Long ago. Heard it. But thanks.

Look, I'm not asking for advice on what to do to find a relationship. Why do people focus on that, and toss "Look for red flags, find yourself, learn how to be alone.." and all of that?

I like myself. I've found myself. I know how to be alone. I am pretty damned good at it.

I'm hurt. I'm lonely. I can still be awesome at being alone, love myself, have found myself, and still flipping be allowed to feel this way and be disappointed to boot. Why do people here think the two are exclusive? That you can't possibly be good at being alone if you're disappointed, lonely, and hurt sometimes? If I didn't feel the full range of human emotions (including anger), then I wouldn't be very healthy.

That's the only reason I posted tonight: I'm sad.

PS Sorry, I'm also very angry tonight; I've held anger in about a lot of things for a while because I keep getting told from multiple sources that I shouldn't be angry about things (totally unrelated to this post). Baloney. Emotions aren't bad, just how you express them.

[Hope 51]

We all need to be loved. The need for companionship is exactly that....a need.
These needs are built in us. You're hurt...and it's healthy to vent anger and sadness.

I get it. I've been married 25 years and I sadly share some the same emotions you are experiencing because I am in a loveless marriage.

Sending hugs.

Originally Posted by divine1966

Of course you aren't an idiot. I don't know what red flags he had. It was just s general idea of watching for them. I am the last person to know how things should be. Although I did get better in seeing things clearer but heck I am old!

I have nothing against long distance. I had long distance relationship. I didn't see a problem with long distance for you. Not at all. In fact I even thought it would be good you move there

I don't think there is any box that relationship need to fit in. I am the last person to think that. I lived with recovering ( not very successful) alcoholic for 9 years. In hopes he'd strop relapsing. And he never did. Promptly relapsed about every 3-6 months. I gave up. Couldn't do it anymore. That's certainly not something that would fit in any box. He almost died when I left, couldn't handle it and he is pretty much killing himself now. I did feel very guilty leaving as he non stop drinks for the past two years. I am friends with his kids as they understood why I left and why I refused to marry him, they also know I am getting married now. But we all watch the train wreck with their dad. It is the saddest and the most painful story of my life. I don't dwell on it but it's always there. If I knew how things are supposed to be or where relationship supposed to fit I'd never spent a decade in
hopes an addict would recover and that many years later realizing he never will. I don't regret as we had beautiful love and he loved me dearly but it's still it is a decade of my life!!!!

Overall I was an idiot most of my life when it comes to men. That's why I brought up an example. One way or the other I made a lot of mistakes . I am the last to judge. I just speak from experience.

PS talking about unavailable men I can't really give any advice as I lived with alcoholic, it doesn't get more unavailable and more red flags than that plus it took me THAT long to say enough. So there is no judgement here


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THERE ARE TRIGGERS HERE, I don't remember how to format so that they can't be seen (if someone can tell me, that would be cool).

Pretty much the red flags I look for are anything which makes me feel like or looks like what things were with my ex-fiance, because we stayed together for almost a year and a half even though things turned bad after about three months. Keep in mind, this was 12 years ago; this is not at all a current situation. We were best friends before we started dating, met at church, and used to hang out all the time. We even talked on the phone for hours (but we were in our mid-twenties and text really wasn't a thing. Actually, it wasn't at all a thing...flip phones weren't even a thing ). He was depressed, even suicidal at times. I don't even know why we started dating, except that I guess we were both just...there...and that to us seemed like fate. It was good for a minute, and then it was really, really bad. Our fights were brutal. We'd scream, throw things. I wouldn't hit him, but I would push him. And he was verbally and emotionally abusive. I gained 50 lbs while with him both, I think, because of stress and because of the meds I was taking to deal with it. He was on meds that kept changing, and which sometimes caused horrible side effects. One made him so enraged that, during a fight, he took off his leather jacket and started whipping me with it. Another time, just before we started off on a roadtrip to Chicago, we got into a dumb argument about the heat in the car, and he slammed my head into the passenger side window. I was too stunned to do anything and didn't move or speak for probably an hour, just stared out the window. Another time, while I was sleeping over, we got into a spat while in bed, and he covered my face with a pillow until I knocked him in the head and got him off of me.

The thing is that I rationalized everything: he's depressed, it's the meds. He loves me. I felt horribly about myself because I had gained so much weight (when I'd already thought I was fat to begin with...because I'd just passed that stage of my 20's where you do gain weight and stop looking like you're 18 anymore). He would always point this out: I don't want to have sex, you're too heavy, it hurts. How could I possibly be physically abusing you? You're bigger than me, I'm just defending myself. I was so incredibly beaten down, that when he stopped showing any affection, stopped calling, stopped taking me out anywhere, I just accepted it as my fault. There were so many dysfunctions that I could just go on and on. But it comes down to the fact that, somehow, I finally walked away after some incredible blow ups. And I had no "me" left. I'd lost most of my friends, because either they were mutual friends or I'd pushed them away in my depression. I'd lost my church. I'd almost lost my job because I was so depressed I was calling in too much. I dropped out of nursing school.

**trigger** I left him, went home, and promptly overdosed. I have no idea why he came over that night, but he is the one who found me and called the ambulance. And I remember, vaguely, because I wasn't really with it, watching his car following the ambulance to the hospital. And then I remember watching him turn onto the freeway to go home. It is 12 years later, and I still break down when I remember that, and being in the ER and in the hospital alone. None of the friends I had left wanted to be there. Once I woke up, I didn't tell my family what I'd done, just that I was going inpatient (and the hospital didn't call them because I didn't have any emergency numbers listed).

It still bothers me that he met his now-wife two weeks after I left (and overdosed). And they're still married and have two kids. Because it makes me feel that everything was my fault, that he was the sane one and I really did drive him to do everything he did to me. A friend once told me that I shattered his heart, and his wife was suspiciously similar to me...buuut I don't know why she told me that. Doesn't matter.

I sort of lashed out right after getting out of the hospital, spent about 6 months or more partying, drinking 3 or more nights a week, and going home with pretty much anyone at the bar who would give me attention, who was decently attractive. The reason was because I was 26, I had been a good little church girl before I'd met J, I chose to stay a virgin until marriage (as did he), and we both lost our virginities to each other (he told me he'd made a mistake in giving it up to me). So after it was already done, I just didn't give a shyt. And I was making up for lost time, I guess. I don't know. Thankfully, I got bored of that really quickly, and I reverted back to the introvert I am, got a computer, and went online (blogging and online communities were just exploding at that time, in 2004). This is when I somehow found a site called Flickr, got interested in photography, and started communicating with people on there. I was spending hours a day with this hobby, taking my own photos and editing them, commenting on photos, in groups, in chat. And this is when I met JD (the man I just had a thing with), and quickly realized he was going through something sort of similar, at least emotionally, to me. And I watched, through his photos, writing, and his vlogs, his decent into a deep breakdown and his subsequent climb, a few years later, out of it. It was awesome. The getting better part, not the breakdown part.

Anyway. That last part is neither here nor there. The point was that I don't ever want a relationship to take me down like things did with J. The problem is that I always feel anxious and scared. I always feel apprehensive, so I never know whether apprehension is a red flag, my gut, or if it's just me. JD knew my history somewhat; we knew each other's. I know why he is guarded, and I know why he retreated from me. But when I started feeling like I was fighting his demons more than I was working with him, is when I needed to get out, because it was just going to spiral. We would have hung on like that for a while, I suspect. And I gave full disclosure as to why, and what exactly happened 12 years ago after J. I suspect, as he has said many times that the hobbies he got into after his breakdown (rapier fighting) saved his life, he absolutely gets it.

Wow... I don't think I've ever shared that story on here before. Sorry, I know it was long.

[divine1966]

Sorry and thank you for sharing. It is a sad story.

I just had to add that I wouldn't think about him being married to someone else, you don't know how his marriage is. Maybe he changed but somebody that volatile very likely isn't a good husband. Decent men don't beat women up no matter how woman behaves.

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[avlady]

yes i feel bad for you too. your so down now so the only way is back up now, you can do it!!

[TishaBuv]

One thing I've learned about men is you have to be really direct with them and tell them to show you or tell you what you want. Women have all this subtext, men don't read between the lines.

You also made me think about 'red flags'. What is it they are warning us about? That this person is possibly going to hurt us, abandon us, torment us, disappoint us...

Originally Posted by TishaBuv

One thing I've learned about men is you have to be really direct with them and tell them to show you or tell you what you want. Women have all this subtext, men don't read between the lines.

You also made me think about 'red flags'. What is it they are warning us about? That this person is possibly going to hurt us, abandon us, torment us, disappoint us...

I was pretty direct with JD. I just wasn't THERE (I was long distance), so I wasn't really a part of his daily priorities. He was like, yeah I'll call...I'm just too tired right now.

And I'm not so sure being direct about what I wanted would have helped with the abusive man. Pretty sure he would have still been a jerk.

[TishaBuv]

Yes. Sometimes you can get what you want, need. But sometimes no matter what, you can't. It's like when you pray, sometimes the answer is 'no'.

Originally Posted by TishaBuv

Yes. Sometimes you can get what you want, need. But sometimes no matter what, you can't. It's like when you pray, sometimes the answer is 'no'.

Im pretty direct and open but, again, in an abusive relationship, I'm not sure that asking for what one wants is the issue.