[TishaBuv]

I had a final falling out with my parents. I knew it was inevitable, and then it happened. Now I am examining the part I played in causing it, and what I could have done different.

If anyone wants to take a look back at their situations and roles they played, feel free to use this thread, too.

[TishaBuv]

1. Why was it 'inevitable' and was that faulty thinking?

My parents made no plans, wouldn't discuss it like adults, and ran out of money. I suspected they were looking to us to help them, even though they adamantly denied that. Therefore, it was only a matter of time before they were expecting financial help, and we were going to say no. Not faulty thinking, perfectly logical, yes?

I'm trying to make sense out of such stupid craziness.

What could I have done differently?

[leejosepho]

Originally Posted by TishaBuv

My parents made no plans, wouldn't discuss it like adults, and ran out of money...only a matter of time before they were expecting financial help, and we were going to say no...

What could I have done differently?

Likely nothing from you would have changed their attitudes and actions, and neither would I have tried to help them maintain their financial dysfunction.

My mother is deceased and my father is financially secure, but I would do whatever I could to care for him as he had once cared for me -- first they change our diapers and then we change theirs -- if he ever became destitute.

[TishaBuv]

My h is the bread winner and we have a marriage teetering on divorce for the past 20 years. It is crazy in and of itself. He has no desire nor ability to financially support his in-laws. They are just too financially needy. It is not feasible regardless. Plus, we have three kids. Therefore, the support was not happening regardless. Plus, my mother is a controlling, abusive witch who constantly upsets me.

So, isn't my thinking logical that this conflict was inevitable?

My sisters get a free pass because they are poor. Except my one sister's husband got an inheritance from his father, but no way in hell would that son-in-law give our mother one dime.

So, the last money I gave her, I 'coerced' her necklace out of her. I was 'mercenery' and 'conniving' in saying that I was buying my inheritance. Because if I had to keep giving her money, I wanted to at least get my favorite thing of hers out of it.

Well I regret that now, because she caused WWIII from it by demanding it back, and now it's all blown up for good.

I guess, the thing for me to have done, in hindsight, was to simply, with kind, sad, puppy eyes, tell her no to any more money...period.

She would have made snide comments and hated us, but there would still be some sort of relationship. Am I kidding myself?

[TishaBuv]

Originally Posted by leejosepho

Likely nothing from you would have changed their attitudes and actions, and neither would I have tried to help them maintain their financial dysfunction.

My mother is deceased and my father is financially secure, but I would do whatever I could to care for him as he had once cared for me -- first they change our diapers and then we change theirs -- if he ever became destitute.

But she's such a nasty, mean, toxic person! I can't stand to be around her! Neither sister will take them in, either. No one can stand her!

[TishaBuv]

I suppose I can go over there and say we can maintain a relationship, and that what happened is water under the bridge. From there on, I just don't offer any help and say no when asked. But I am still their daughter.

My mom probably isn't even phased from my crying and her screaming scenes that have happened. She never was, always just acted like nothing ever happened. But, then it just perpetuates more toxicity. IDK what to do.

Originally Posted by TishaBuv

I suppose I can go over there and say we can maintain a relationship, and that what happened is water under the bridge. From there on, I just don't offer any help and say no when asked. But I am still their daughter.

My mom probably isn't even phased from my crying and her screaming scenes that have happened. She never was, always just acted like nothing ever happened. But, then it just perpetuates more toxicity. IDK what to do.

You need more time to sort out your feelings. Continue taking a break for her. It will not be forever because she is your mother. If a true health emergency comes up--I think you should see her. After taking this break, maybe see her periodically but limit the time because she is hurting your mental health. She may be the one that caused SOME of the dysfunction in your marriage. It is sad I know. She is the way she is because it is her coping mechanism because her life hasn't been easy. I think some people manage to take tragedies and become more patient and understanding as a result. Others battle the world instead and take things out on the people they love. They have a hard time really loving people in a true/good way. She is toxic for you.....

[TishaBuv]

Nah...gotta step away from the toxic parents. I'm too on the edge myself. Full blown disorder at this point for me. Withdraw! Retreat! Find friends who are true and the symptoms will go into remission. Right?

Originally Posted by TishaBuv

Nah...gotta step away from the toxic parents. I'm too on the edge myself. Full blown disorder at this point for me. Withdraw! Retreat! Find friends who are true and the symptoms will go into remission. Right?

It may take time but RIGHT!!

[TishaBuv]

Can I just send them a belated Valentine's Day card, love Mercinery and Conniving?

[TishaBuv]

Mercinery--adjective derogatory
1.
(of a person or their behavior) primarily concerned with making money at the expense of ethics.
"she's nothing but a mercenary little gold digger"
synonyms: money-oriented, grasping, greedy, acquisitive, avaricious, covetous, bribable, venal, materialistic; informalmoney-grubbing
"mercenary self-interest"

Conniving-- adjective
given to or involved in conspiring to do something immoral, illegal, or harmful.
"a heartless and conniving person"

Seriously...read the definitions! Is that what I am???

[TishaBuv]

How does one cope with being called these names by your own parents after YOU HAVE GIVEN THEM MONEY???

[Chyialee]

Oh Tisha. I am so sorry.
Families are hard.
But but but..... they don't have to be toxic. It's extremely disorienting when people who in our inmost hearts we believe should be nurturing and accepting and validating, just--- AREN'T. That's the slot our parents (and other relatives) are meant to occupy in our lives, and somehow your parents just cannot, and will not.

They sound dreadfully demanding. imho of course.

Ask yourself a couple things: How will further contact at this point, help you? Help them? Ease the bad feelings & upset in your life?

Nobody wants to be seen as "The Problem". In my not-all-that-darn-humble opinion, your parents -- Mom especially -- is turning their bad situation into an Offensive position bc that's 'the best defense" in the minds of many folk.

ACK I am saying all this very badly, sorry. But anyway:

You have not "Connived" at making them destitute. Sometimes we gotta give people the whole gift of their own consequences. painful.

Strength to you, my friend.

xo,

Chyia, smh @ your parents' expectations bc wth??

[seesaw]

There's no law that says you have to take care of toxic parents. And this idea that you have to care for abusive, toxic parents is ********. Don't let others guilt trip you into feeling like you have to have a relationship with them. If they wanted you to care for them in their old age, they should have treated you better. Period. They can't expect to abuse you and still get the benefit of your caring when they become financially destitute.

It's one thing to care for parents who were good parents and who cared for you. It's another to say you have to care for parents who abused you and made your life living hell. You don't owe them anything. The idea that you do is completely faulty and only serves to invalidate the abuse that you have suffered at her hands.

If they didn't plan for their retirement years, that is on them. Even if you wanted to, you can only do so much to provide for them, because, as you said, you only have so much capacity yourself: you have kids to provide for, and THEY are your first priority, not your parents.

I didn't ask to be brought into this world. I don't owe my parents ****.

Seesaw

[seesaw]

Originally Posted by leejosepho

Likely nothing from you would have changed their attitudes and actions, and neither would I have tried to help them maintain their financial dysfunction.

My mother is deceased and my father is financially secure, but I would do whatever I could to care for him as he had once cared for me -- first they change our diapers and then we change theirs -- if he ever became destitute.

It sounds like you had a good father. I did not. I will not change his diapers. I wouldn't leave him uncared for, but I'm also not going to go poor trying to provide for him instead of my kids or family. If he wanted me to care for him in his old age, he should have done a lot more to have a good relationship with me. I'm not going to care for someone or welcome them into my home who abused me my whole life.

We don't owe them anything for making the decision to bring us into this world. They chose that.

[TishaBuv]

Actually, I just googled and learned that there is such a law:

"Did you know you could be responsible for your parents' unpaid bills? Twenty-eight states currently have laws making adult children responsible for their parents if their parents can't afford to take care of themselves. While these laws are rarely enforced, there has been speculation that states may begin dusting them off as a way to save on Medicaid expenses.

These laws, called filial responsibility laws, obligate adult children to provide necessities like food, clothing, housing, and medical attention for their indigent parents. According to the National Center for Policy Analysis, a conservative research organization, 21 states allow a civil court action to obtain financial support or cost recovery, 12 states impose criminal penalties on children who do not support their parents, and three states allow both civil and criminal actions. (For a list of the states and citations to state statutes, click here. Note that Idaho's and New Hampshire's statutes have since been repealed.)

Generally, most states do not require children to provide care if they do not have the ability to pay. States vary on what factors they consider when determining whether an adult child has the ability to pay. Children may also not be required to support their parents if the parents abandoned them or did not support them.

The passage of the Deficit Reduction Act of 2005 made it more difficult to qualify for Medicaid, which means there may be more elderly individuals in nursing homes with no ability to pay for care. In response, nursing homes may use the filial responsibility laws as a way to get care paid for. For more information, click here.

For a discussion of filial responsibility laws in the New York Times's "New Old Age" blog, click here."

[seesaw]

What if you don't live in the same state as your parents? And what qualifies as ability to pay?

[seesaw]

Also what if you have been disowned?

[seesaw]

Also, this has to do with footing the bill, not necessarily having to care for them. So if they won't sell their house and wrack up debt, you most likely won't be responsible for that. But if they go to a nursing home and won't pay, then you might get brought into it. See the difference?

[TishaBuv]

Very interesting. If your parents were abusive and horrid, you may still be responsible for them. They say these laws are not enforced, but they may start to be. Wow, good to know.

People are expected to live much longer, but their money runs out much sooner. What gives?

[seesaw]

Originally Posted by TishaBuv

Very interesting. If your parents were abusive and horrid, you may still be responsible for them. They say these laws are not enforced, but they may start to be. Wow, good to know.

People are expected to live much longer, but their money runs out much sooner. What gives?

The article I saw said that abandonment and abuse could get you out of it.

Also, this provided you allow your parents to wrack up such a debt. I would make the case that my parents refused to give me power of attorney in choosing their care facilities and the costs, while as a child, they made all the decisions, so it doesn't make sense that, unless I'm given power of attorney, that I would have to pay for their decisions. It's not the same thing.

Also, in the recent court case, the woman didn't die, she relocated to Greece. So the money was there for the facility to recoop, she just wasn't paying. They went after her son because they knew they could recoop costs. They aren't going to sue you if you don't have the money to pay, it's not worth it to them. They would only sue if your parents died and you didn't use what's left of their estate to pay the bills. I just don't think these facilities are all of a sudden going to start suing middle to low income people.

The other court cases involved fraudulently hiding assets. So I would be wary that this is all of a sudden going to affect you.

Also, I currently live in a state with no filial laws, lol. Lucky me.

[seesaw]

At the very least, I would try to keep a paper trail that you had tried to get them to curb their spending.

Originally Posted by TishaBuv

"Did you know you could be responsible for your parents' unpaid bills? Twenty-eight states currently have laws making adult children responsible for their parents if their parents can't afford to take care of themselves. While these laws are rarely enforced, there has been speculation that states may begin dusting them off as a way to save on Medicaid expenses.
"

I didn't see the state I'm from on that list so far....

[TishaBuv]

This morning my sister told me she would use her retirement money to take care of them.
Because 'that's what you do for family'. My other sister stay far, far away and keeps very quiet.

[TishaBuv]

Meanwhile, I'm going to do my h a favor and let him get rid of me and my stupid family.