Deleted.

[Crazy Hitch]

[MickeyCheeky]

Sorry that you feel upset

I'm upset because I am confused about a situation where I feel no need to apologize. I lack the ability to understand why I should apologize. This upsets me and makes me feel like a villain.

I'm staying with a "friend" while I search for an apartment. She still lives with her parents. I feel cramped in here because I must answer to them while here. I do their dishes and laundry. I must smile and be pleasant. I also feel cramped in here because I do not like situations where there are families, and there is me, on the outside. I am feeling anxious here.

Today the father gave me some unsolicited advice, a lecture where obedience is key (a cultural thing). He assumed I wasn't doing well with some things. I corrected him and pointed out that he didn't know me--that no one knows me--so how could he assume that I am not doing things right? How could he assume that I didn't know the things he was telling me? That is basically what I said word for word.

Apparently I scared the mother with my little routine of "no one knows me" (it's true, though). I am used to fighting so maybe my words were a bit harsh, but I think I was a bit rude, that's all.

My friend was angry with me because she said I talked back to her father. I really have no grasp on why she would be angry with me. Firstly, I wasn’t rude to her. Second, I can talk back to him because he is not my father, and I do not allow anyone to assume or insinuate that I am helpless.

I was upset by the idea that I caused some domestic disturbance without knowing it. The only thing I am aware of here is that my father issues cloud many situations for me. But I did not know that I could be so mean without knowing it, that I scared people. That maybe my traumatic rupture with my own father could have been engineered only by someone with darkness and anger inside. My friend is unable to really deal with talking back. She said she would get grounded if she talked back. She's afraid to talk back. I can't remember a time when I obeyed a punishment. I think I was really difficult. I just feel really rough around the edges right now. Undomesticated.

Also, I am upset because I still do not understand why I should apologize, as my friend suggested. For what? For being rude while a guest? Maybe, but I don't really think I was rude. I simply stood up for myself. I didn't allow him to consume me. And I'm not apologizing for "scaring the mother" because I don't really know if she was scared or what. Apparently I was aggressive.

Finally, I am upset because I had originally offered to my friend that I would apologize for arguing (not for talking back). But I told her some things that I shouldn't have, and it's clear that she doesn't understand me. I tell her I haven't spoken with my father for 11 years, and she says she doesn't really speak with hers too, but I see them together, and they are easy with each other. She doesn't understand what I'm getting at, at all, and I feel like she is sheltered. She's so stressed out because of parental pressure. Why doesn't she just distance herself from them the way I have had to? And she saw my self harm scars today, and thought it was a rash. I said, no, they are scars. She asked what happened, and I said baldly, "I cut myself." She didn't really react.

I feel she does not understand me and my pain, and I would rather be misunderstood and hated than apologize and start to have to answer to someone. I don't answer to them. So I told her to never tell her parents what I told her about myself and that I wasn't going to apologize. Because an apology is nothing without understanding.

I need to get out of here. I will be happy to leave by the end of the week. I don't know where I'm going because I'm bad at understanding that the future is a reality. But I love it like this. I feel alert.

I thought my friend was a stable and strong person for me, but I saw her cry today (unrelated to my domestic disturbance) and while I was able to comfort her with words, I feel so repulsed by her now. She explained that she feels like a failure. I don't know, I just really hate weakness. I hate how she is loyal to her family and doesn't help me much and isn't there for me and doesn't understand me. I hate her family. I would hate all families, if I had to live with them. It's too nerve wracking. I didn't ask anything from her parents. I don't ask them for rides or anything. So I don't know why they're interfering with my life.

I have the impulse to just cut her out of my life once I leave this place at the end of the week.

[Rose76]

Where will you be going at the end of the week?

You sound very stressed. I hope you can find a way to calm yourself down a bit and take things one day at a time. Here us something to remember: You always have the option of not responding to someone who says something upsetting or challenging to you. Sometimes saying nothing is the most powerful thing to do. You don't have to let another person lure you into a debate. When someone gives you unsolicited advice, you can choose to simply let it pass by you without you reacting to it. There is nothing for you to "defend" yourself against. Your friends father wasn't trying to make you do anything. It's his house. If he wants to say something, just treat it as noise in the background.

I hope you will find a safe place to go to.

[Bill3]

To me it was presumptuous of him to comment on you and also unkind/unwelcoming with you being a guest in his house.

As Rose said, there is often the (challenging) option to let the words slide off of you and not respond, or respond minimally.

My acquaintance is telling me to apologize. No one forces an apology from me.

I am a weed that needs to be pulled.

Why can’t I tell her it hurts when she says I was causing domestic disturbance and being aggressive. It’s like she’s saying that I’m an abuser and what happened with my father is all my fault.

I’ll apologize to the mother, the weak woman who doesn’t understand anything.

I hate lying. I still don’t understand. I have no opportunity to explain that I felt attacked because of being in a situation where a father was berating me and insulting my intelligence and assuming things. On a day to day basis I am polite and not intrusive but when there is a situation like what happened I won’t go easily.

It’s done. I agreed to have a civilized conversation with the father, a do over of the conversation, and apologize to her mother. This is not bothering me at all. I don’t give a damn about her petty anger about disrespect. Nothing about me was unreasonable except for my tone which was too defensive. I apparently almost made her mother faint (?!).

This is the least of my concerns. I don’t have time for her right now. We are very different people and I’ll just do what she wants so we remain “friends”. Leaving her house on Friday. Glad I bought a ton of granola bars the other day.

I see no value in a fake apology though. I need to be less upfront about things during conflicts. I just generally think it’s good to lay all my cards out on the table. I don’t know.

I will go to a cheap Airbnb or stay with an alum of my school. Or one of the rooms I see will work out. I’m not picky.

[Rose76]

You can tell your acquaintance anything you want to tell her. You can talk about feeling hurt and explain that you felt attacked. You are free to say and not say anything you want. Go right ahead. But be prepared for the consequences. This family doesn't have to provide you with a place to stay, which you need right now.

When you are a guest in someone else's home, it's a good idea to not quarrel with them. You don't have to say, "I agree." to everything they say. That would be lying. You can simply refrain from responding, or do what I do. If a response is wanted and I don't think it's my place to contradict, I simply say, "I hear what you're saying." That way I'm not arguing or giving any offense. It's my way of really not saying anything, but staying polite. The person I'm talking with can assume it means anything they want. I'm not responsible for what another person assumes. If someone wants to believe I'm dumb, they can go on and believe whatever they like. I don't care. What they choose to believe is their business. I'm not going to make it my problem.

Emptyn., I'm trying to show you how you can hold on to your own power in the face of antagonism. When someone invites you into an argument, you can decline the invitation. That's often the most powerful thing you can do. Otherwise you are being manipulated into an exchange you have nothing to gain from. That's you letting yourself be victimized, IMHO. Of course this man doesn't know you. You are not there for the purpose of getting him to know you. Who cares what he knows, or what he thinks? Disregard it.

If someone gives me an unsolicited, unwarranted lecture, "I may answer by saying, "Thanks for your feedback. I'll give it some thought." Then, after giving it a half a second of thought, I completely forget it. It isn't worth my attention. I decide what I'll pay attention to and what I'll disregard. That's me holding on to my power.

An apology needn't be a lie and it doesn't have to make you feel small. Listen to politicians and celebrities on TV. There's always one of them apologizing and they're usually not one bit sorry about anything. Typically, they say, "I'm sorry if anyone was offended." What they're really thinking us: "That's too bad you were offended . . . . as if I care." Wanting to argue and be defensive is pointless. You have nothing to gain from that.

Thanks, Rose76. I will try your tactics and try to remember the phrases and what they mean.

It is just hard for me to say those phrases because they aren't really the exact truth, and I don't know how to deal with things I can't understand or trust. I would rather be harsh and truthful and know what I'm working with than not know what to think when someone says "I hear what you're saying."

Unless that is code for validation but disagreeing? How can you validate someone when you disagree with them?

[Rose76]

I posted before seeing your post #8. Good that you are getting things smoothed out. Fake apologies provide a great deal of social lubrication. They prove valuable in calming down situations where it's just not worth having continued turmoil. Some of the most powerful people in the world are the quickest at issuing "fake apologies."

Being "less upfront about things during conflict" might serve you very well. I learned that lesson myself, after I got tired of what it was costing me to go around getting in people's faces with my treasured honesty. There is a lot of power in diplomacy. It takes practice to learn the art of it, but no one was ever "really upset" over being too diplomatic. Learn to "choose your fights" and "pick your battles." And never lay all your cards on the table . . . or do it very seldom. The only person who really needs to know what cards you are holding is you.

[Rose76]

Originally Posted by emptynightmare

I would rather be harsh and truthful and know what I'm working with than not know what to think when someone says "I hear what you're saying."

Unless that is code for validation but disagreeing? How can you validate someone when you disagree with them?

Even if I strongly disagree with someone, I can validate their right to their own opinion. Suppose you say, "Rose, I think everything you're doing is wrong." I can respond with, "Well, emptyn., you can think that, if you want." Why should I waste my time arguing with you? That would be me letting you set my agenda for me. I've got better things to think about and to spend my energy on.

One of the things I've learned (and this is not directed at you) is that people who do a lot of arguing are usually losers.

As long as you know what you think, you don't have to explain it to anyone, usually.

[Bill3]

How can you validate someone when you disagree with them?

You can validate someone by demonstrating that you understand what they are saying.

Trumpophile: We are lucky to have the greatest president in the history of this great country!

Trumpophobe: You see Trump as a world-class leader, a truly historic figure.

In this little vignette the Trumpophobe has validated the Trumpophile, not by agreeing, but by demonstrating a fair understanding of what the Trumpophile said.

Simply paying attention to someone is a form of validating that person. So is showing that you have a fair understanding of what they are saying.There are other forms as well. In short, one can validate the person without agreeing with what they are saying.

[Rose76]

Well put, Bill3.

I apologized calmly and quietly without getting into it and asked for more chores.

Everything is “fine”. I validated my friend on how she was really tired from working and let her lecture me about retail (I have an interview on Friday at a retail store). The more you validate the more people talk.

Then she said her classes were starting up next week so it was best if I left by the end of the week. Her reiteration of something we both had agreed on makes me think she is still mad.

I am getting really annoyed at her for a whole slew of things, not just the incident. Things are only “fine” not actually fine. I want to cut her from my life. I know if i decrease my commitment she will hate me forever. It’s all or nothing.. But I want out. I don’t have confidence in her. I wouldn’t be inclined to speak highly of her to others. I can’t vouch for her.

I just don’t want to deal with her. I need a long break from her. I have already made two friends from strangers here. I am ok.

I would rather fight openly. But I guess it’s not worth it. This “fine” but undercurrents of anger is unsettling. I don’t like it at all.

[Rose76]

I think you'll be a lot happier when you get settled in a place of your own.