Is it true that we teach people how to treat us?

Albatross2008 · Apr 20, 2018, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by healingme4me

Is this where the question arises about teaching other people how to treat us?

Depending on the scenario it could be a matter of expressing---if this is going to be the end result, I'm not interested.

If you're going to insult me, I'm not interested.

Not sure if that helps? Over time, others could grow to know where you draw the line.

It is very much a matter of learning where to draw the line. Because if I speak up, I very often feel (whether I'm made to feel that way or not, I do feel it) that I am being unreasonable and overly demanding.

Quote:

Originally Posted by VernonJenkins

Why do you have these people on your Facebook? Who are they to you?

My daughter helped me sort that one out. A lot of them come from an old website we used to hang out at. It centered around a popular series of books, but there was a subforum for chit-chat, where you talk about your kids, job, pets, whatever, and another to debate hot-button issues like politics. I usually hung out in the chit-chat area, but a lot of them came from the hot-button area, and as daughter and I have deduced, that's just what they're used to. They see me post an opinion of any kind, and to them, it's open for debate. Hot debate. When all I was really trying to do was chit-chat.

Complicate matters with the dynamics among family, and at the day treatment programs I've been in, which I discussed with my therapist today. I just got home from that. When pretty much everything I've ever said and done is wrong and invalidated by somebody, eventually I'm going to get sick of it.

Here is the pattern. I can say something that's just so trivial, and even if it's a provable fact, it gets argued with.

"Anastasia was not a Disney movie."--"Yes, it was!" (It was a Fox project.)

"David Yost of the Power Rangers is left-handed."--"No, he's not!" (He is.)

"Vicki Lawrence sang The Night the Lights Went Out in Georgia in the 1970's."--"No, you're wrong. She's an actress, not a singer." (She's both, and she did.)

Believe it or not, all of these conversations have actually taken place. Because those statements are all easily provable, my first instinct after getting these reactions is to prove it. Then when I do, family is going to be angry with me. "OK, Miss Know-it-all. You always have to be right. What does it matter, anyway? That's such a trivial thing to argue about." (But I'm not the one who started arguing, am I?) If it happens at one of those day programs, what I'm likely to get is a staff member smiling at me the way you smile at a toddler. "It means a lot to you to be right, doesn't it?"

Every choice I make is wrong. If I'm watching my carbs, I should be watching my fat intake instead. If I catch a cold, I should have done more to prevent it. I listen to the wrong music, watch the wrong shows, and wear the wrong style of clothes. So I finally get tired of it and speak up, and then it's, "What's the matter? Aren't other people entitled to an opinion too? Do you think you're perfect?"

If I teach people how to treat me, I'd like to teach them to leave me alone and let me be me.

Loose Screw x 2 · Apr 20, 2018, 04:51 PM

I do believe that we teach people how to treat us because I was raised to be a doormat and used to let people run me down all of the time until I finally got to a point where I'd had enough of it and started saying what was really on my mind and acting out some of my insanity.
Now people who know me usually think before they say things to me that may come across as disrespectful and those who talk down to me or get testy are inviting me to ask them why they said that to me and/or why they said it that way?
I have a guy in here who will not hesitate to tell a bully that they are speaking to me/us disrespectfully and that we do not appreciate it one bit.
As for social media it is chock full of drama and people who like stirring it up.
I had to get firm on my primary Facebook page over making it very clear that I am at liberty to post whatever I damn well please there as it is my page and not theirs. Because some didn't see it that way and continued to cause problems I had to make changes to my account and make a very serious post about how anything like that further would not be tolerated.
Also, when posting links about anything potentially upsetting to sensitive people it is a good idea to point out where the link came from so, nobody assumes that you typed it up yourself.

healingme4me · Apr 20, 2018, 04:59 PM

Sounds like some quippy comebacks are in order??

To those that say, well aren't you always perfect. Nobody is perfect, not even me.

To those that say, well aren't you always right. Noone can be 100% all the time, I've been known to be wrong.

Those are two off the top of my head.

I'd be dumbstruck myself with the level of rudeness that these remarks appear to be on the surface.

So sorry that you are subjected to such

Albatross2008 · Apr 20, 2018, 05:10 PM

You should have seen my therapist's face when I quoted that condescending "it means a lot to you to be right" line. It was one of the most beautiful WTF expressions I've seen in a while.

"What I'm about to post came from XYZ source. Don't like it? Take it up with them." Sounds like a pretty good idea. Wording will probably vary.

Thanks for the help and validation, everyone.

Apr 20, 2018, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rose76

Your facebook page is like your own home. That's your space. You do, say and display what you want there. Anything posted on your Facebook wall is like a picture or poster you hang up in your bedroom. If someone doesn't like seeing it, then they don't need to go there. Friends have the option to "unfollow" you, if they don't like what you put up. No one's forcing them to look at your stuff.

You can block visitors, but I would use a different tactic first. Simply delete any comments that are just people giving you grief. When they see their comment gone, they will get a "lesson." Those who don't learn can be blocked. No one has a right to disrespect you on your facebook space.

It’s like a home with exposed rooms if you know what I mean - revealing and open for intrusions

butterscotch444 · Apr 20, 2018, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arbie

Pretty much any time someone is rude to me, or takes advantage of me, or doesn't respect my boundaries, I will receive some variation on that advice. We teach people how to treat us. My mother once told me, after someone had been blatantly rude and mocking toward me, "I doubt anybody would have said that to me. You must be giving off some kind of signal that tells people it's OK to talk to you like that." I'm sure there is a grain of truth in there, although to me it sounds a lot like, "Even when the other person really did act like a butt, it's still your fault for letting them." What to do about it, that's what I'd like to know.

For the past several days on Facebook, I have not been free to express my own opinion without every demon in hell being unleashed on me. Understand, this doesn't only happen on Facebook. It can also happen in my own family. I've blocked a lot of people on Facebook, and I've gone no-contact with a lot of members of my family. I get so tired of that game where no matter what I say, somebody has to tell me I'm wrong, so they can come away feeling like they're smarter than me. It's not that I mind other people's opinions, or can't handle being disagreed with. It's that these things I posted, I got from other pages, and THOSE people weren't read the riot act for posting them. The argument didn't start until after I posted it on my page. (And then someone accused ME of trying to stir up drama.)

I passed along something my cousin posted on her page. The only response she ever got was mine, where I agreed with her. After it showed up on my page, however, all hell broke loose. At first I took it down off my page, because the argument got that ugly, but then I put it back up, essentially saying, "If you don't like it, tough cookies. This is my page, and I'll post what I want to." And I also ended up blocking a couple of people who were really nasty about it. After re-posting it, so far nobody has dared to comment. But they've also let me know that I'm making *them* feel like *they* don't have a right to an opinion.

And this morning, the same thing started to happen with something I passed along from my husband's page. Nobody chewed him out for posting it, but once it was on my page, again I started to catch it. I managed to nip that in the bud. I said I'm not taking it down this time, but I will show my page to my therapist, to illustrate how this keeps happening. My appointment is tomorrow.

So essentially, somebody else (cousin and husband in this case) can express an opinion, and nothing bad happens. I then express that very same opinion, word for word, and suddenly it's a topic for an exhaustive debate. Just once I'd like to say how I feel about something, and not have to vigorously defend myself afterward. My cousin and husband didn't have to. What's going on here? Is it a case of teaching people how to treat me? Or is it something else?

So sorry that happened!!!

downandlonely · Apr 20, 2018, 07:52 PM

Was it something political that you posted? I know that can get a lot of people riled up. I wonder if maybe you have a more diverse group of friends than your husband and cousin. Some people are only friends with people who share the same beliefs so they don't have to deal with much controversy. I don't think there's something about you that makes people think it's ok to treat you badly. I think it's on them, not you.

Rose76 · Apr 20, 2018, 07:53 PM

It's only open to people you let in. And they can only see what you allow them to.

Apr 20, 2018, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arbie

Pretty much any time someone is rude to me, or takes advantage of me, or doesn't respect my boundaries, I will receive some variation on that advice. We teach people how to treat us. My mother once told me, after someone had been blatantly rude and mocking toward me, "I doubt anybody would have said that to me. You must be giving off some kind of signal that tells people it's OK to talk to you like that." I'm sure there is a grain of truth in there, although to me it sounds a lot like, "Even when the other person really did act like a butt, it's still your fault for letting them." What to do about it, that's what I'd like to know.

For the past several days on Facebook, I have not been free to express my own opinion without every demon in hell being unleashed on me. Understand, this doesn't only happen on Facebook. It can also happen in my own family. I've blocked a lot of people on Facebook, and I've gone no-contact with a lot of members of my family. I get so tired of that game where no matter what I say, somebody has to tell me I'm wrong, so they can come away feeling like they're smarter than me. It's not that I mind other people's opinions, or can't handle being disagreed with. It's that these things I posted, I got from other pages, and THOSE people weren't read the riot act for posting them. The argument didn't start until after I posted it on my page. (And then someone accused ME of trying to stir up drama.)

I passed along something my cousin posted on her page. The only response she ever got was mine, where I agreed with her. After it showed up on my page, however, all hell broke loose. At first I took it down off my page, because the argument got that ugly, but then I put it back up, essentially saying, "If you don't like it, tough cookies. This is my page, and I'll post what I want to." And I also ended up blocking a couple of people who were really nasty about it. After re-posting it, so far nobody has dared to comment. But they've also let me know that I'm making *them* feel like *they* don't have a right to an opinion.

And this morning, the same thing started to happen with something I passed along from my husband's page. Nobody chewed him out for posting it, but once it was on my page, again I started to catch it. I managed to nip that in the bud. I said I'm not taking it down this time, but I will show my page to my therapist, to illustrate how this keeps happening. My appointment is tomorrow.

So essentially, somebody else (cousin and husband in this case) can express an opinion, and nothing bad happens. I then express that very same opinion, word for word, and suddenly it's a topic for an exhaustive debate. Just once I'd like to say how I feel about something, and not have to vigorously defend myself afterward. My cousin and husband didn't have to. What's going on here? Is it a case of teaching people how to treat me? Or is it something else?

Hi Arbie.

Wow. Ok. #1. It sounds like you have a lot of controlling people (who want to control you) in your life. Good for you for standing up for yourself on FB. And here's the thing. No, if you say to people, "this is my page, I want to post stuff for myself, without people spouting their opinions about it because that's upsetting to me" people need to freaking respect that. The fact that people aren't respecting that, and saying "well you just don't want me to have an opinion," are bad news, disrespectful, and if people like that were in my life, I'd consider dumping them. There's this thing called the "hide" button. And the "unfollow" button. Those people need to use it with your posts. The fact that these people don't care how you feel, in concerning, and says a lot about them.

#2. I'm sorry your mom said that to you over and over. While, yes, there is truth to the statement "you teach people how to treat you," your mom was doing it in an invalidating way. She wasn't hearing you or giving you what you needed to feel safe at the time you were talking to her. It reminds me of my own mother. When I was growing up, especially as a teenager, I'd go to her with concerns and upsets about people being mean or hurtful towards me, or even, just that I didn't like how someone said something. I was looking for reassurance, and validation. I did not get it. Ever. She would say "you have social anxiety and read situations wrong. the person you are talking about probably didn't mean it that way." That was wrong of her, incorrect, inaccurate, and invalidating. So, I can relate to what you have said.

For me, it interfered in my own emotional development as I was growing up and learning about people and social situations. It sucks. I wonder if what you experienced interfered with your development, in the sense, that it seems like an unresolved issue for you, you didn't get what you needed as a kid, and people still step all over you, which really, it does seem like you allow, even though thats not what you want.

And seriously, sometimes, people are just BUTTS. Or rub us the wrong way (and we don't have to put up with it). Like if someone has bad boundaries with us. Or doesn't respect our feelings on Facebook.

I wonder if you are having a hard time separating "we teach people how to treat us" from your mom. So you have negative connotations with that phrase. I'm like that with the word "happy," because someone who was very hurtful to me used that word with me. Maybe you can find a different sentence to use for yourself. Something that feels more empowering for you.

Albatross2008 · Apr 20, 2018, 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by downandlonely

Was it something political that you posted? I know that can get a lot of people riled up. I wonder if maybe you have a more diverse group of friends than your husband and cousin. Some people are only friends with people who share the same beliefs so they don't have to deal with much controversy. I don't think there's something about you that makes people think it's ok to treat you badly. I think it's on them, not you.

That seems to be the general thinking, that I'm connected to people with a bigger variety of viewpoints. I didn't think it was political, and since other people posted it and didn't get the strong reaction, i wasn't expecting one.

Albatross2008 · Apr 20, 2018, 09:51 PM

I hear you on the invalidation when there is a conflict with others. If I had a dollar for every time I've heard the following....

"I'm sure he/she didn't mean it like that."
"You probably misunderstood."
"He/she means well."
"He/she has problems."
"He/she can't help it."
"He/she is probably just having a bad day."
"Well, you're not perfect either."
"What did you say to make him/her mad?"

The other person always gets excused. After a while it's just plumb sickening.

Apr 20, 2018, 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arbie

I hear you on the invalidation when there is a conflict with others. If I had a dollar for every time I've heard the following....

"I'm sure he/she didn't mean it like that."
"You probably misunderstood."
"He/she means well."
"He/she has problems."
"He/she can't help it."
"He/she is probably just having a bad day."
"Well, you're not perfect either."
"What did you say to make him/her mad?"

The other person always gets excused. After a while it's just plumb sickening.

Wow. Was your mom my mom? Lol.

"I'm sure they didn't mean it like that" Check. This is still her go to.
"You prob. misunderstood. Check.
"They mean well." Check.
"They can't help it." Yup! Check!
"They are probably just having a bad day." This one I really couldn't stand, and gets a big fat CHECK.

Zedsdead · Apr 21, 2018, 12:23 PM

I have dealt with this for SO long!!! I never understood why some people could make comments and never receive so much of a blink of an eye. If I make the same comments, it is like a rain of BS pouring from others.
I grew up in a toxic household, my sister being a prime example of this behaviour will disagree with *everything* I say. Whether it is me just telling her what happened in my life, what I plan to do, an opinion of something or a feeling I have. Everything I say is wrong. If I stand my ground, it becomes heated and she will get seriously offended.
If I make a status on Facebook that insinuates I'm having a tough time, negatively or positively, my mother will call me and give me crap for being negative, saying Facebook is a place for only positivity. I disagree. I use it as a platform to keep in touch with friends, to offer and receive support from loved ones etc. I don't wish to use it as a place to fake a grand life.

I went through a women's shelter for the past 2 years after leaving an abusive relationship. I was validated, empowered and felt I needed to stand up for myself. Since speaking with integrity and placing boundaries, there has been a huge backlash that I find very uncomfortable. I have been cut off from my sister, lost friends and lessened contact with my mother.

I am starting to come to terms with it now.. that some people are just bad eggs, but I choose to ignore them, keep my head up and let them continue their negative crap without me around.

It has been a tough lesson for me to learn. But I can't accept that I taught them to act this way. It makes no sense to me!

Shazerac · Apr 21, 2018, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by starrysky

Wow. Was your mom my mom? Lol.

"I'm sure they didn't mean it like that" Check. This is still her go to.
"You prob. misunderstood. Check.
"They mean well." Check.
"They can't help it." Yup! Check!
"They are probably just having a bad day." This one I really couldn't stand, and gets a big fat CHECK.

I kind of have a different approach. Let’s just assume just for arguments sake that all the above statements are true. They didn’t mean it, they meant well, blah blah blahbitty blah. So f@cking what? If it hurts.... it hurts! Explaining it away doesn’t make it hurt any less. Screw them! What other people think of me is none of my business. Own your feelings. Don’t feel bad that you feel hurt.

Facebook is a minefield. I used to get lambasted all the time. Then I started responding with my own opinions about their opinions. “I couldn’t disagree with you more if my life depended on it.” Etc. The only people that respond now are those who are actually interested in having an intelligent non abusive debate about opposing points of view.

IceCreamKid · Apr 21, 2018, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arbie

It is very much a matter of learning where to draw the line. Because if I speak up, I very often feel (whether I'm made to feel that way or not, I do feel it) that I am being unreasonable and overly demanding.

My daughter helped me sort that one out. A lot of them come from an old website we used to hang out at. It centered around a popular series of books, but there was a subforum for chit-chat, where you talk about your kids, job, pets, whatever, and another to debate hot-button issues like politics. I usually hung out in the chit-chat area, but a lot of them came from the hot-button area, and as daughter and I have deduced, that's just what they're used to. They see me post an opinion of any kind, and to them, it's open for debate. Hot debate. When all I was really trying to do was chit-chat.

Complicate matters with the dynamics among family, and at the day treatment programs I've been in, which I discussed with my therapist today. I just got home from that. When pretty much everything I've ever said and done is wrong and invalidated by somebody, eventually I'm going to get sick of it.

Here is the pattern. I can say something that's just so trivial, and even if it's a provable fact, it gets argued with.

"Anastasia was not a Disney movie."--"Yes, it was!" (It was a Fox project.)

"David Yost of the Power Rangers is left-handed."--"No, he's not!" (He is.)

"Vicki Lawrence sang The Night the Lights Went Out in Georgia in the 1970's."--"No, you're wrong. She's an actress, not a singer." (She's both, and she did.)

Believe it or not, all of these conversations have actually taken place. Because those statements are all easily provable, my first instinct after getting these reactions is to prove it. Then when I do, family is going to be angry with me. "OK, Miss Know-it-all. You always have to be right. What does it matter, anyway? That's such a trivial thing to argue about." (But I'm not the one who started arguing, am I?) If it happens at one of those day programs, what I'm likely to get is a staff member smiling at me the way you smile at a toddler. "It means a lot to you to be right, doesn't it?"

Every choice I make is wrong. If I'm watching my carbs, I should be watching my fat intake instead. If I catch a cold, I should have done more to prevent it. I listen to the wrong music, watch the wrong shows, and wear the wrong style of clothes. So I finally get tired of it and speak up, and then it's, "What's the matter? Aren't other people entitled to an opinion too? Do you think you're perfect?"

If I teach people how to treat me, I'd like to teach them to leave me alone and let me be me.

Sometimes it is safer not to respond to what might escalate (I am talking mainly about real-life situations here). However, bullies gonna bully. If you allow a bully to continue to bully you, they will continue to bully you. If you don't allow a bully to bully you, they will still try to bully you--sometimes upping the ante, sometimes changing their tactics...but they will still try to bully you. When you stand firm and let them know they are not going to bully you? They bully someone else. Cause bullies bully. It's what they do.

That said, I am reminded of a very sad woman I had the misfortune to work with who was just horrible to me: openly rude and hostile. When I stopped talking to her and started physically avoiding her, she immediately set about befriending everyone else in the work space and was quite charming to them. Six-eight glorious months went by where I didn't have to see her--I happened to be in a meeting with her, seated behind her--and she was openly rude and hostile to the man running the meeting (and here we had all been 'friends' at one point). Bullies gonna bully. Unless they get to the seat of their problems; bullies will continue to bully.

One of the best techniques I ever learned is to not respond. Another is to respond in a mild but 'inviting no argument' tone of voice, for example: "I don't share your opinion and I never discuss [insert topic here]." Decent people know to let that subject drop with you.

I think you're doing to right thing to sweep unsupportive, negative people away from you.

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