Home Menu

Menu


Reply
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old Nov 21, 2019, 12:54 PM
rechu's Avatar
rechu rechu is offline
Magnate
 
Member Since: Apr 2016
Location: Somewhere in South America
Posts: 2,415
So. I am going through a lot of challenges in my life right now.

The country where I live is going through some serious civil unrest. This has been continuing for over a month, and there’s really no end in sight. There are times when it’s been a bit calmer, but it always flares back up. It has made living a normal life a challenge.

On top of that, I am unemployed. I sensed I was going to lose my job some months back; all the signs were here. I used everything in my arsenal to drag it out as long as possible. But, I was finally given my termination letter on November 5th. I got my severance payment on the 15th.

I am just getting a little frustrated when people who don’t understand what we are living here just try to tell me they know it’s all going to be fine soon. When I was supposed to go to a meeting with my boss and her boss (which I managed to avoid; they were going to fire me), some would tell me, “I’m sure it’s not what you think, maybe it’s to offer you a promotion.” With the situation here, friends often say, “there’s no way the unrest will last for much longer.” And as far as finding another job, similarly, it’s, “you’re smart, you will find a job soon.” The economy here is imploding hard due to the instability. The job market is grim to say the least.

I feel like they do mean well or maybe just don’t know what to say. However, if I contradict them and say, I don’t think this will end soon, or the job market is going to be very tough for the forseeable future, many people almost seemed offended I contradicted them, even though I am observing this first hand, not them.

Does anyone have thoughts about how to respond in these cases, or even if I should respond? Part of me just feels like saying I don’t feel like discussing it, just to avoid being frustrated or offending others.
Hugs from:
Anonymous48672, Bill3, bpcyclist, Discombobulated, LiteraryLark, Mendingmysoul, MickeyCheeky, unaluna
Thanks for this!
Bill3, bpcyclist, MickeyCheeky, WastingAsparagus

advertisement
  #2  
Old Nov 21, 2019, 02:19 PM
poshgirl poshgirl is offline
Veteran Member
 
Member Since: Sep 2018
Location: Birmingham UK
Posts: 620
Rechu,

Sorry to hear about your difficulties. Having a good idea of your home country, it's a situation that isn't usually resolved overnight.

Sadly, lot's of people can't deal with the reality so hide behind optimism rather than face the unpleasant truth. Unfortunately, they also cannot accept someone else's differing views.

Stay true to yourself. If you feel it would be better to keep quiet, then that's your choice. However, that could lead to your increased frustration not only with friends but also with those supposed to be leading your country. Makes our problems in the UK seem minor!
Hugs from:
bpcyclist, Mendingmysoul, MickeyCheeky
Thanks for this!
MickeyCheeky, rechu
  #3  
Old Nov 21, 2019, 07:42 PM
bpcyclist's Avatar
bpcyclist bpcyclist is offline
Legendary
 
Member Since: Sep 2019
Location: Portland
Posts: 12,681
I'm with poshgirl. Anybody who knows anything about where I am fairly certain you live knows there is no chance of an overnight solution. The entire country is in crisis. Why stick your head in the sand? Why pretend it isn't happening? Since when did denial become a healthy, adult coping strategy?

I say, just keep doing what you're doing. You don't have to engage with people who can't see and grasp what is right before their eyes. If you find yourself in a convo with someone like this, just steer it away to something else benign like football or global warming or music or Donald Trump's latest stupidity or whatever.

I am sorry you are in this situation. There are other countries with more stable governments where jobs are plentiful Have you considered moving?

All the best--
__________________
When I was a kid, my parents moved a lot, but I always found them--Rodney Dangerfield
Hugs from:
MickeyCheeky
Thanks for this!
MickeyCheeky, rechu
  #4  
Old Nov 21, 2019, 08:09 PM
LilyMop's Avatar
LilyMop LilyMop is offline
Veteran Member
 
Member Since: Sep 2019
Location: U.S.
Posts: 709
I think people just don’t know what to say. You’ve had a particularly rough time these past several months. I can see why these statements about everything being “fine” is not the least bit comforting. Sometimes all you can do is stick it out and hope that along the way you will find some supportive friends. Sometimes I try to think back on particularly trying times and that I managed to muddle through that stuff so hopefully I can keep muddling through the current stuff and find my way. Have faith in yourself and take things one day at a time. I truly wish you all the best.
Hugs from:
MickeyCheeky
Thanks for this!
MickeyCheeky, rechu
  #5  
Old Nov 21, 2019, 09:49 PM
WastingAsparagus's Avatar
WastingAsparagus WastingAsparagus is offline
Philosopher
 
Member Since: Mar 2014
Location: South America
Posts: 4,745
Without knowing much about your situation, I think the best you can do is just try to avoid conversations like the ones you describe. Also it depends on the context. This is an oversimplification, but if it's someone you don't really need to please, then why not just say what you believe? I understand you are talking about friends here, but these friends need to learn to be more supportive, it seems. If it's with the right person (a good friend, for example), perhaps it could be cathartic to vent a little bit. My opinion is that a true friend ought to be able to understand your frustration. That might be easier in theory than in practice.
Hugs from:
MickeyCheeky
Thanks for this!
MickeyCheeky, rechu
  #6  
Old Nov 22, 2019, 10:52 AM
Britedark Britedark is offline
Member
 
Member Since: Jun 2018
Location: Galaxy far far away
Posts: 98
I don't know if I am reading the situation correctly, but often what happens is this:
We share our problem with a friend.
They say something like 'buck up! Things are not that bad!'
We point out that things are exactly that bad.
They get angry because they feel we are not trying hard enough, making excuses, wallowing in self pity, being negative etc etc.

The fact is we are doing our best, but some situations are genuinely out of our control. There is no solution and we don't need false hope. We just need a sympathetic ear and some validation. But that sort of non-judgemental listening is a rare talent. Today's culture is all about dynamism and getting results. Negative emotions are expected to be brushed under the carpet.
How to deal with such unhelpful responses? You may try telling your friends that you are not looking for a solution or encouragement. Just saying 'yes, I acknowledge that times are tough but you are doing your best' would be fine. Following it with a hug would be even better. If they are good friends they will definitely understand your needs.
Hugs from:
MickeyCheeky
Thanks for this!
MickeyCheeky, rechu
  #7  
Old Nov 22, 2019, 11:16 AM
hvert's Avatar
hvert hvert is offline
Grand Magnate
 
Member Since: Jan 2014
Location: US
Posts: 4,889
Oh no, I am so sorry. I remember some of your past posts about your job. I think when people say 'Things will be fine,' it's sort of like saying 'how are you?' There's some kind of linguistic phrase for this but it's not coming to me. It's just the acceptable thing to say in a particular kind of conversation and there is no need for you to contradict them or continue that aspect of the conversation. Maybe you could redirect by talking about something completely different or asking them to let you know if any job leads? Although I guess if they are saying annoying things like that, their job leads would probably be annoying as well!
Thanks for this!
rechu
  #8  
Old Nov 22, 2019, 11:44 AM
rechu's Avatar
rechu rechu is offline
Magnate
 
Member Since: Apr 2016
Location: Somewhere in South America
Posts: 2,415
I wanted to take a moment to thank those that read and took time to comment. It is appreciated. I have more I want to add some specific comments and clarify a few things, but I probably won't have time for a few days.. Thanks again!
Hugs from:
MickeyCheeky
Thanks for this!
MickeyCheeky
  #9  
Old Nov 22, 2019, 01:59 PM
LiteraryLark's Avatar
LiteraryLark LiteraryLark is offline
Crowned "The Good Witch"
 
Member Since: Jun 2009
Location: Wonderland
Posts: 11,542
I know very little about your situation, but something I've been thinking of is I don't think these people are sincere or confident when they say "it'll all be okay". Perhaps they say these things because they feel or know they are being watched, monitored, or recorded. They may say that because they do not know who is friend or foe. Perhaps if they admit, "yes, we have a problem, we need to stop it!" their lives are at stake and they could be
Possible trigger:
for questioning or defying the leaders of this civil unrest.

Again, I know very little of this civil unrest, but for your safety I'd be careful what you say and to whom. Defiance in an unrest is a very dangerous thing. Sometimes it is safer to be ignorant than to know too much, because I am sure these people are not as hopeful as you think. Be careful!
  #10  
Old Nov 22, 2019, 02:08 PM
hvert's Avatar
hvert hvert is offline
Grand Magnate
 
Member Since: Jan 2014
Location: US
Posts: 4,889
I remembered the phrase - 'phatic expressions.' "In phatic expressions, speech acts are not communicative, since no content is communicated. According to anthropologist Bronisław Malinowski, apparently "purposeless" speech acts—polite small talk, like "how are you?" or "have a nice day"—even though their content may be trivial or irrelevant to the situation, perform the important function of establishing, maintaining, and managing bonds of sociality between participants."
  #11  
Old Nov 25, 2019, 04:45 PM
leomama's Avatar
leomama leomama is offline
Grand Magnate
 
Member Since: Feb 2014
Location: USA
Posts: 4,703
I would say you don’t owe them any response at all.
Thanks for this!
rechu
  #12  
Old Nov 26, 2019, 02:31 PM
rechu's Avatar
rechu rechu is offline
Magnate
 
Member Since: Apr 2016
Location: Somewhere in South America
Posts: 2,415
To clarify this situation a bit. I am a long-term expat in this country. The people commenting are mainly friends from my home country that I am in touch with, most pretty frequently about what is going on in our lives, others contacted me because they read in the paper about it or saw it on the news. These are not people I don’t know well or people living in this country.

Poshgirl/bcpcyclist – yeah, I guess some people prefer to live in denial. Maybe that is part of what bothers me. I don’t have the luxury of living in denial. We are somewhat lucky in that we live out of the worst of it, but my husband has to go to work in a part of the capital every day that has problems, and I sometimes have to go to the capital too. Every time it is stressful figuring out what transportation will work (buses, trains, etc. shut down with no notice), will there be protests in that area?, etc. Businesses and government offices close frequently these days, so we have to plan carefully if we have government business to attend to and to buy food/water, etc.

Many of these people have come to me in the past to discuss their own problems. I just don’t feel like I have ever been so flippant to just say something like some of the things that have been said to me, especially in complicated situations like my current one.

An international move isn’t in the cards for a lot of reasons. My husband’s educational qualifications are very country-specific. There are only two other countries that would allow him to practice without additional studies/certification. One of those just ended its own period of unrest; the other has a stagnant economy. He has no interest in moving to my home country and neither do I to be honest, plus the immigration procedures for him are complicated. Then, there is the expense (our currency has tanked, devaluing our savings in other currencies), we have pets to think of, a house that would need to be sold. And, of course, visas can be difficult/expensive to get.

LilyMop – Yes, you’ve followed my situation, I know, and understand things are anything but fine. How can they be fine? I am out of work in an imploding country.

WastingAsparagus – After giving things more thought, I am leaning towards avoiding the subject with the worst offenders

Britedark – Insightful perspective. In a few cases maybe just stating, I need to vent, I’m not looking for solutions or a pep talk could help.

Hvert – thanks for responding. The thing is that these are people I would have hoped I could have a deeper conversation with, but it’s not seeming possible for the most part.

Literary Lark – We can talk freely about it here, between ourselves. That’s not a problem at all. It’s not a dictatorship or anything. Nearly all my friends/family here think that we are in this for the long haul So, it feels invalidating when people who aren’t living here make it seem like it’s short-lived and not really a big deal.
Thanks, leomama.

There are two people that have been supportive and not tried to downplay things. One was an expat herself that moved back to our country, so maybe that perspective helps. She checks in with me every week/10 days by text or facetime. So, I do appreciate that. She even gave me suggestion for a freelance work site that has worked for some people she knows. I had signed up for a few others but hadn’t heard of that one. The other lives in a country that seems to have decided that what we are dealing with is so much fun, they want to do the same thing. So, she definitely understands. And, no, I didn’t tell her the problems there would be over soon.

I guess I need to communicate mainly with the people that are more supportive. With the others, on a case-by-case basis, I will either decline to discuss it further, or preface any comments with, “I just need to vent.”
Hugs from:
Anonymous48672, Britedark
Thanks for this!
LilyMop
  #13  
Old Nov 26, 2019, 03:02 PM
LilyMop's Avatar
LilyMop LilyMop is offline
Veteran Member
 
Member Since: Sep 2019
Location: U.S.
Posts: 709
@rechu

Many people these days are stuck in unhappy job situations or complicated situations like yours with your home and pets and hubby’s job. I completely understand that you feel frustrated if other people say “well just get another job” or “just move.” It’s not easy to do. Your situation is a bit more extreme than most right now.

I heard a statistic the other day that 79% of Americans are unhappy with their jobs. That’s a lot of unhappy people and it sounds like where you are living it’s probably even higher. You’re trying to make your way in a very difficult environment.

Sometimes all you can do is work through your frustrations for a while and vent to kind people who will listen. Anybody would feel stressed out and anxious in your place right now.

I’m here to listen. I know you’re going to make it through this one way or another but I know it’s not easy. You are determined and you can do it. Take it one day at a time.
Hugs from:
MickeyCheeky
Thanks for this!
MickeyCheeky, rechu
  #14  
Old Nov 27, 2019, 12:33 PM
rechu's Avatar
rechu rechu is offline
Magnate
 
Member Since: Apr 2016
Location: Somewhere in South America
Posts: 2,415
Thanks LilyMop. One day at a time I think is all we can do. It is impossible to plan when everything feels so uncertain.I was talking to another expat here and we both had noticed what is going on with the Christmas decorations here, Usually by now, everyone would be buying decorations. Instead, there are displays are full, products are being sold for 50-60% off and people are barely looking at them. Everyone is more concerned with stocking up on food, wáter and other household supplies in case the supermarkets shut down again.

Apart from being anxious I am sad. Sad, to see this country I have called home for many years in this state. Even if the violence stopped tomorrow, the country has been set back decades. Most people protesting just want better living conditions, which I can completely understand. Sadly, there are always criminals that take advantage of the protests to loot and burn. I feel like our lives are being held hostage to them.
  #15  
Old Nov 29, 2019, 10:38 AM
rechu's Avatar
rechu rechu is offline
Magnate
 
Member Since: Apr 2016
Location: Somewhere in South America
Posts: 2,415
I think another reason that I am annoyed by these comments is that in the first few weeks after this started, we wanted to believe the same thing. Things would calm down for a few days, we’d get up hope it was ending and then it would start up again. We don’t let ourselves to develop false hopes any more.

The last few days have been particularly violent. Fewer protests but more looting; and it is organized. Groups show up in pick-up trucks, with the license plates removed (to make it hard to identify them).

There is a terminal called the Intermodal Terminal in the capital where you can access two metro lines, city buses and intercity buses. I have used it many times, the last time a few weeks ago, because my husband works near there. If I have to go to the capital, I go in to work with him by car and then go to the terminal to take the metro. In two days it was completely looted and severely damaged by these groups, criminal gangs, whatever you want to call them. The upper floors have many shops and all their merchandise was taken, along with any furniture, shelves, etc. Camera crews were filming and people were still carrying looted items out. They didn’t even cover their faces. The police only showed up at the tail end of this and arrested the last few looters.

Someone from this forum sent me an interesting link on toxic positivity. It definitely gave a name to what I am dealing with and why just telling people to think positively, everything will be fine is detrimental. Sometimes we do need to express negative feelings.

Last edited by rechu; Nov 29, 2019 at 10:47 AM. Reason: Added last paragraph
Hugs from:
Anonymous48672
Thanks for this!
LilyMop
  #16  
Old Nov 29, 2019, 08:02 PM
Anonymous48672
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
rechu - I have been in your shoes living abroad and learned quickly who I could vent/turn to for emotional support, and who I couldn't, based on how people reacted when I shared information with them. Sounds like you've learned now, who is in your corner emotionally, and who isn't.

People who are quick to invalidate your feelings, when they say "oh, I"m sure it will turn out fine!" are the type I refer to as "one-siders." The one-siders will no doubt vent to you about their problems b/c they know you'll emotionally support them. But god forbid you expect the same emotional support and respect of your feelings from them -- that is not something they are interested in doing. So, they're "one-siders." One-sided type relationships. Put those people in your acquaintance category. And keep them there.

People who understand your situation, will simply validate your feelings and respect your feelings.

People who truly empathize with you, won't dismiss your feelings with phrases such as "sorry you are going through this," or "I hope things get better for you." Those phrases make me cringe when I hear/read them, because it's the person's way of telling you that you sharing negative feelings about a situation makes them uncomfortable. Very much an example of toxic positivity.

There is ZERO wrong with expressing negative emotion. Anyone who tells you otherwise, is wrong. Guess what. People are 3-dimensional and our negative emotions are actually HELPFUL to us. I posted a thread here about how negative emotions help us, and why toxic positivity is a horrible thing.

The best way to confront people who spew toxic positivity at you -- if you want to avoid arguing with them -- is unfortunately to change subjects. I hate advising that, b/c it's advising you to put your own feelings aside to take care of someone else's feelings. I don't think you should be a doormat so if you want to set a boundary with them, respond to the next toxic positive comment with this boundary, "I understand that you can't see the full scope of the situation because you don't live here, but I do live here, and it is my reality. I'm sharing this information with you because I'm going through (this is the boundary part) a really stressful period in my life with my job loss, and the situation with this country, and I could use some emotional support (here is where you are asking them to respect your boundary and making a request to them)." If they are truly empathetic , they will respond with validation of your feelings and give you emotional support. If they respond by acting defensive, put them in the one-sider category and understand that they are probably not someone to go to for emotional support again.
  #17  
Old Nov 30, 2019, 10:42 AM
rechu's Avatar
rechu rechu is offline
Magnate
 
Member Since: Apr 2016
Location: Somewhere in South America
Posts: 2,415
Thanks, Blanche. At this point, after giving this all more thought, I have pretty well defined who I can talk to and who is just not worth it. Sadly, my own family is on the not worth even trying list, but it is what it is, as they say. They haven't even asked how I am doing for weeks and when they did it was invalidating. A friend I hadn't heard from in a few weeks texted me the other day and we had a good chat. She was supportive and not annoying. Arguing/confronting people is not really something I have energy for with everything that is going on.
Hugs from:
Anonymous48672, WastingAsparagus
  #18  
Old Nov 30, 2019, 02:46 PM
Anonymous48672
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
I empathize with you about family rechu. My own family did not support me going abroad for a year, and didn't support m while I was abroad for the year. And ignored me when I came back. So, I know how lonely it feels not to have family support when you live abroad because I have experienced it first-hand.
  #19  
Old Dec 02, 2019, 02:40 PM
WastingAsparagus's Avatar
WastingAsparagus WastingAsparagus is offline
Philosopher
 
Member Since: Mar 2014
Location: South America
Posts: 4,745
Quote:
Originally Posted by rechu View Post
Thanks, Blanche. At this point, after giving this all more thought, I have pretty well defined who I can talk to and who is just not worth it. Sadly, my own family is on the not worth even trying list, but it is what it is, as they say. They haven't even asked how I am doing for weeks and when they did it was invalidating. A friend I hadn't heard from in a few weeks texted me the other day and we had a good chat. She was supportive and not annoying. Arguing/confronting people is not really something I have energy for with everything that is going on.

I am an expat, too: I can definitely empathize with what you're going through, although what I've experienced abroad is not as severe as your situation, at least it seems to me.


I mean, if you ever want to send a message to me over this site, I'd be happy to talk about it. I can definitely empathize with the frustration over things like this. Also, it's completely fine if you don't want to do that, either.
Thanks for this!
rechu
Reply
Views: 1263

attentionThis is an old thread. You probably should not post your reply to it, as the original poster is unlikely to see it.




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:42 PM.
Powered by vBulletin® — Copyright © 2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.




 

My Support Forums

My Support Forums is the online community that was originally begun as the Psych Central Forums in 2001. It now runs as an independent self-help support group community for mental health, personality, and psychological issues and is overseen by a group of dedicated, caring volunteers from around the world.

 

Helplines and Lifelines

The material on this site is for informational purposes only, and is not a substitute for medical advice, diagnosis or treatment provided by a qualified health care provider.

Always consult your doctor or mental health professional before trying anything you read here.