[TishaBuv]

Feel free to add yours when you need to vent.

She only wants to gossip and badmouth all other family members. She knows I don’t want to hear it but she insists on doing it anyway. I said, “I don’t even understand this conversation we are having, why you are saying what you are saying.” She curtly said, “I have to go!” And we hang up. tip toe through the tulips, yada yada yada...

[unaluna]

I feel this way about my extended family. To them, my mother was a saint, and im the devil.

Wow i guess that says it all, doesnt it.

[TishaBuv]

I know this is the way it’s going to be and there is nothing I can say to make the conversations go any better. Still, I keep calling once every several days, knowing this is how it will go because to stop calling makes me feel worse.

[Open Eyes]

Is this your mother that does this with you Tisha?

[TishaBuv]

Originally Posted by Open Eyes

Is this your mother that does this with you Tisha?

Yes

[TishaBuv]

I spoke with my friend today. She told me my mom posted my wedding photo on facebook, and my friend now understands, as I have explained it to her, that it is just a manipulation tactic and not as sweet as it seems. I don’t even go on facebook anymore because my mom is a major factor in ruining it for me with her postings. Awww, the sweet mom is wistfully posting old family photos...and I see it as manipulative and not sweet at all!

[TishaBuv]

I’m handling it all so much better now. I get upset for a few minutes, usually coming on here to vent or distract. I feel like if I say anything negative about anyone, complaining, it’ll come back at me somehow.

[hvert]

The less I talk to my mother, the better... congrats on cutting off the toxic conversation. It's not easy!

[TishaBuv]

Now there’s this annoying dynamic where, when she starts with me, I’ve said in the past that I have to go. So now she picked up on that and this time did it to me. It feels like I stepped in dog poo.

How can I call her every several days (like once a week) and have a pleasant exchange of what a mother-daughter conversation should be?

My one sister does what my h calls a ‘hit and run conversation’. She talks a mile a minute telling Mom what’s happening with her and doesn’t give her a chance to speak, then ends the call. My sister was doing this to me, too, when all was fine (so I thought) in our relationship. She and I have not spoken since the family fallout from the Kavanaugh hearing.

The relationship between my mom and other sister consist of only my sister calling Mom (Mom refuses to ‘dial out’). I think it is as toxic as the dynamic with me.

Then there is my mom and her sister. My aunt tells me that is the most toxic of all. My mom insists her memories of her own life are in reality memories of my aunt’s life. they fight constantly.

I feel sorry that my mom is basically alone in her apartment in very much physical pain. All she does is write her memoirs that no one will ever read. She trolls facebook for attention. She fights on the phone with her family. And she fights with her husband who ignores her.

What can I do to make this look more like a Norman Rockwell picture of loveliness? I live only just less than an hour away from her. I am the only one who lives close. Therefore, I have gotten the brunt of having had much more physical interaction with her- holidays ruined, until I put an end to inviting her.

How can I make peace with a sick, mean, elderly mother who I’m afraid is NPD?

[TishaBuv]

Maybe a little script prompt will help:
“Hi Mom, How are you?”
“I’m sorry to hear that. We’re doing ok.”
“Feel better. I love you! Bye!”

[rechu]

Originally Posted by hvert

The less I talk to my mother, the better... congrats on cutting off the toxic conversation. It's not easy!

So very true for me too, hvert!

[TunedOut]

Originally Posted by TishaBuv

I feel sorry that my mom is basically alone in her apartment in very much physical pain. All she does is write her memoirs that no one will ever read. She trolls facebook for attention. She fights on the phone with her family. And she fights with her husband who ignores her.

What can I do to make this look more like a Norman Rockwell picture of loveliness? I live only just less than an hour away from her. I am the only one who lives close. Therefore, I have gotten the brunt of having had much more physical interaction with her- holidays ruined, until I put an end to inviting her.

How can I make peace with a sick, mean, elderly mother who I’m afraid is NPD?

Be accepting of when she says, "I have to go," -- don't assume the motive is to get in a dig (even though I think you are the kind of person who picks up on others situations/emotions). When you say, "I have to go," you hope that she will let you without fuss.

What about just occassionally sending a email or text where you try to descibe something funny you saw or happened? You have a very good sense of humor--someone like you mom could use a laugh--if she texts back that your "try" was oh so lame ; well, you tried, that's on her if she is miserable. We can only figure out how to solve our own misery (isn't that hard enough?). If you text or email--you can decide what to respond to. You don't have to respond tit for tat--one short text a day is more than enough from my POV and some days they could just say, "Good morning!"

I try to only talk to my son once a day (though I do it more some days)--I deserve to enjoy my life and decide what to do with my time. I can't let him come to me anymore for everything (I still do a lot for him!!). I can't let him make me feel guilty about things that happened in the past. They happened because I was the one jumping through hoops more than anyone else for him--that I have always tried to be there and do things to make his life easier means that s4!TT occassionally happened. I can be a bit of an incompetent sometimes but if he wanted it all to go right--he should have planned and made sure of it himself--he's 24 now.

Yes, I have seen that you got the brunt of the stress associated with caring for your mom--this is why it is SO ridiculous when your sisters get upset that you don't do more (give her more money, etc.--you are generous but you are not a fool. --unlike me )

[Fuzzybear]

Originally Posted by unaluna

I feel this way about my extended family. To them, my mother was a saint, and im the devil.

Wow i guess that says it all, doesnt it.

I can relate to this.

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

I say to them

Eff y’all.

And “every sinner has a future, every saint has a past”

[TishaBuv]

Originally Posted by TunedOut

Be accepting of when she says, "I have to go," -- don't assume the motive is to get in a dig (even though I think you are the kind of person who picks up on others situations/emotions). When you say, "I have to go," you hope that she will let you without fuss.

What about just occassionally sending a email or text where you try to descibe something funny you saw or happened? You have a very good sense of humor--someone like you mom could use a laugh--if she texts back that your "try" was oh so lame ; well, you tried, that's on her if she is miserable. We can only figure out how to solve our own misery (isn't that hard enough?). If you text or email--you can decide what to respond to. You don't have to respond tit for tat--one short text a day is more than enough from my POV and some days they could just say, "Good morning!"

I try to only talk to my son once a day (though I do it more some days)--I deserve to enjoy my life and decide what to do with my time. I can't let him come to me anymore for everything (I still do a lot for him!!). I can't let him make me feel guilty about things that happened in the past. They happened because I was the one jumping through hoops more than anyone else for him--that I have always tried to be there and do things to make his life easier means that s4!TT occassionally happened. I can be a bit of an incompetent sometimes but if he wanted it all to go right--he should have planned and made sure of it himself--he's 24 now.

Yes, I have seen that you got the brunt of the stress associated with caring for your mom--this is why it is SO ridiculous when your sisters get upset that you don't do more (give her more money, etc.--you are generous but you are not a fool. --unlike me )

It was totally a dig. She couldn’t wait to do it to give it back to me for doing it to her. Yes, she is that nasty.

Your idea about the little joke emails are a good one. I’ll try that. She doesn’t text. She doesn’t even want to email. She just had a fight with her sister for sending a private email thread to all of us with photos of her grandkids, and my mom told her she only uses facebook, trying to coerce her to post the photos publicly on there— so mom can get more attention from them by other ‘friends’ commenting!

Yes, I’m frustrated and angry. She wants us all to be so doting, but we are all so rebellious instead.

You are not a fool!

[TunedOut]

Originally Posted by TishaBuv

It was totally a dig. She couldn’t wait to do it to give it back to me for doing it to her. Yes, she is that nasty.

Yes, I’m frustrated and angry. She wants us all to be so doting, but we are all so rebellious instead.

You are not a fool!

You are rebellious in response to how she acts plus you have been traumatized--at one point in the relationship with my son, I would get nauseous and have panic attacks on the way to seeing him and during the visit. This is because I never knew what to expect and little by little, enough had happened that my reactions had became out of control too! I am doing better now because I am seeing him much much less (keeping my distance) and take extra medication when I see him. Our visit yesterday went well because I took a break from him and have set a lot more boundaries. When we are struggling (I don't think you are now and know you realize this but will still emphasize it), we can't help a struggling family member. Don't feel bad that you aren't visiting regularly. You need to recharge and heal so that when she really needs you, you are able to handle it!!!

If I made a list of the foolish things I have done, I could probably convince you that, many times, I am!

[TishaBuv]

Originally Posted by TunedOut

You are rebellious in response to how she acts plus you have been traumatized--at one point in the relationship with my son, I would get nauseous and have panic attacks on the way to seeing him and during the visit. This is because I never knew what to expect and little by little, enough had happened that my reactions had became out of control too! I am doing better now because I am seeing him much much less (keeping my distance) and take extra medication when I see him. Our visit yesterday went well because I took a break from him and have set a lot more boundaries. When we are struggling (I don't think you are now and know you realize this but will still emphasize it), we can't help a struggling family member. Don't feel bad that you aren't visiting regularly. You need to recharge and heal so that when she really needs you, you are able to handle it!!!

If I made a list of the foolish things I have done, I could probably convince you that, many times, I am!

I completely commiserate with Having to premedicate to deal. I give myself a little pep talk before a conversation or visit so I stay calm and don’t instigate or react.

I messed up with this last conversation because I criticized her for criticizing others- I should have just said “uh huh” and let her tire herself out. I’ll try that next time. It’s just so annoying when I’ve tried to set a boundary, begged her not to say these things to me, but she refuses! I am forced to listen to it.

I think what happened here, is I read loads of psych articles and learned what is toxic. I learned that gossip is wrong. I am sure I used to feed it. It never came from me, but I fed into it with her. By echoing her sentiment, by validating her, I felt I was bonding with her and she was approving of me. Now that I learned it is toxic, and won’t do it anymore, she won’t stop. Besides, it didn’t get her approval. She was also badmouthing me to others. I didn’t know that, but I learned she is a contrarian. Who would have thought their own mother was two-faced? I only learned this a few years ago.

I had the same thing happen with my ex bff. I was shocked to learn she was even making up lies about me to her other friends to bad mouth me. I was honestly shocked. How naive could I be?

Which brings me to the subject of being a fool. If I listed all the foolish things I have done it would be both hilarious and alarming. It would make a great country song. . In regards to your deepest error (the attempt), that came from a place of impulse and anguish.

[TunedOut]

Originally Posted by TishaBuv

I messed up with this last conversation because I criticized her for criticizing others- I should have just said “uh huh” and let her tire herself out. I’ll try that next time. It’s just so annoying when I’ve tried to set a boundary, begged her not to say these things to me, but she refuses! I am forced to listen to it.

She was also badmouthing me to others. I didn’t know that, but I learned she is a contrarian. Who would have thought their own mother was two-faced? I only learned this a few years ago.

I had the same thing happen with my ex bff.

Yes, with some people it is so useless to "battle" them because they are so stubborn. Sadly, their stubbornness hurts themselves the most.

That is shocking that your mom was badmouthing you.

I assume my son loves me and doesn't badmouth me but who knows. I am the parent and therefore have to do things that he might not like. I will still try to be there for him within reason. I do love him very much. He has so many good qualities and you have said there are many things that you like about your mom. You are still there for your mom within reason.

As far as being naive goes--I think we assume people have some of the same standards and values we have but not everyone does. I really hate labelling people as NPD, etc. but the character traits of these disorders (keeping in mind people are on a continueum and alway a mix), do help us understand that people think and behave differently than what we think of as normal. Some people are fine (or can't help?) operating in an unfair way. Of course, when we think disordered is normal then we end up not understanding what they are about very quickly. We all love our mothers so if our mother is disordered then it twists our thinking and takes a while to sort it out.

[TishaBuv]

Today’s conversation went better. Yesterday, I asked my son (the engineer) to give grandma a call. Today, she was in a good mood due to that. It’s always been hit and miss with her. TBH, she is in much physical pain, which she doesn’t do enough to help herself with. Partly, it’s because pain meds are constipating. Is that TMI? Lol. I’ll try to be a better daughter and be less instigating and more kind.

[TunedOut]

Originally Posted by TishaBuv

Today’s conversation went better. Yesterday, I asked my son (the engineer) to give grandma a call. Today, she was in a good mood due to that. It’s always been hit and miss with her. TBH, she is in much physical pain, which she doesn’t do enough to help herself with. Partly, it’s because pain meds are constipating. Is that TMI? Lol. I’ll try to be a better daughter and be less instigating and more kind.

Give your mom a hug from me (if you still ever see her and if it doesn't hurt). I know what pain meds do to you (been there). No fun. Sometimes distractions work and wonder if pot could help her too.

[TishaBuv]

Originally Posted by TunedOut

Give your mom a hug from me (if you still ever see her and if it doesn't hurt). I know what pain meds do to you (been there). No fun. Sometimes distractions work and wonder if pot could help her too.

You are so sweet!

She tried to get medical marijuana, but ended up flipping out in the dispensary and telling them off. Not a chill scene, for sure! She refuses my help on it. Whatever I tell her, she doesn’t listen to or believe anyway. My nephew gave her THC chocolate once and she said it didn’t work at all. I took some too, and it really didn’t do anything for me, either.

My mom is a control freak, so anything that would make her feel not in control, she would not like at all.

She is funny when she gets drunk, though. Then she REALLY opens up.

It felt so good to hear her sound ‘up’ today. I am hopeful to have more nice times and laughter with my mom. It’s only moments in this life and we have to enjoy them as they come.

[Open Eyes]

I feel sorry that my mom is basically alone in her apartment in very much physical pain. All she does is write her memoirs that no one will ever read. She trolls facebook for attention. She fights on the phone with her family. And she fights with her husband who ignores her.

I had a feeling that your mother was living a rather small life Tisha. It sounds like your mother tries to combat this boring life with creating drama and gossiping. The best way to look at this is that your mother is engaging in trying to create things where she has all the power to compensate for her boredom and lack of power to change her situation. Please know that often this is practiced by someone "unknowingly" and I know that sounds strange.

You are not going to change her, it won't matter how many different tactics you try either and forget the Norman Rockwell picture, ain't gonna happen. Hmmm wonder if your mother is one of those women that watches soap operas every day and then creates her own little soap opera.

How old is your mother?

[TishaBuv]

Originally Posted by Open Eyes

I had a feeling that your mother was living a rather small life Tisha. It sounds like your mother tries to combat this boring life with creating drama and gossiping. The best way to look at this is that your mother is engaging in trying to create things where she has all the power to compensate for her boredom and lack of power to change her situation. Please know that often this is practiced by someone "unknowingly" and I know that sounds strange.

You are not going to change her, it won't matter how many different tactics you try either and forget the Norman Rockwell picture, ain't gonna happen. Hmmm wonder if your mother is one of those women that watches soap operas every day and then creates her own little soap opera.

How old is your mother?

You’re correct except for the soap operas part. The same is pretty much true of me, too... the boredom. She’s mid 80’s so I can cut her some slack.

[Open Eyes]

Yes, that generation often lived small lives as often the women of that generation were expected to find a good provider and just be a wife and mother. It's not surprising some of those same messages were handed to you as well.

[TishaBuv]

Originally Posted by Open Eyes

Yes, that generation often lived small lives as often the women of that generation were expected to find a good provider and just be a wife and mother. It's not surprising some of those same messages were handed to you as well.

It’s a bit dull, but it’s nice work if you can get it!

Originally Posted by Open Eyes

I had a feeling that your mother was living a rather small life Tisha. It sounds like your mother tries to combat this boring life with creating drama and gossiping. The best way to look at this is that your mother is engaging in trying to create things where she has all the power to compensate for her boredom and lack of power to change her situation. Please know that often this is practiced by someone "unknowingly" and I know that sounds strange.

Perhaps the bottom line here is that when people act in a toxic manner towards you, it's more about them than about you. Yet somehow, you end up feeling responsible for their feelings. In the past, I've felt guilty for upsetting my relative, even knowing she had no reason to be upset (since all I did was decline one of her many requests for favors).