[frustlandlady]

Hallo to everyone. So here I am with a new date and many concerns about him...

After one and a half month of meeting at work he invited me out, he did everything to make it easy for me, as I have no car and it was not easy for me to go on that specific day.
With few words, 95% of the time he was talking about himself, expressing how important it is for him to feel great with a woman, to make him feel that special person he has never felt before. He said that I am a very sweet and caring person and he was expecting me to be that woman. He asked me a few typical things to get to know me better, like my interests and what I am doing in general without trying to know my opinion on different subjects.

Meanwhile, I could not express any opinion on his life matters that he was talking about without being judged in an impolite way like "Is this all you have to say? I am telling you this and this and this and all you have to say is this?".

Meanwhile, I was very cautious with this situation and he kept saying "I was expecting you to react in the X way, I was expecting you to tell me the X thing to show that you were thinking of me" etc etc pointing out a dozen of things that he wanted to here and I did not say.
4 days later he called me complaining that I didn't even text him to ask how he is doing (Would you have called him after that date?), mentioning again all the things that I should have done and I didn't do to show him how much I care etc etc. He even compared me with a supposed lady that made him feel super special when he was young. I told him "I am not this special person you are looking for and I wish you to find that person" and never had contact with him again apart from a typical "hallo" at work.

Some last details, both times he kept saying that he feels veeeeery sure about his opoinions, he kept saying that most of the things people do are of no importance and that he is sick of people's behaviors, that he has thought much of every detail of every life aspect and that what opinion he expresses is very serious and well thought. He also has no friends (as far as I know).

But the thing that feared me the most was when he was talking about how he sees life and and how much he needs to feel strong emotions, he was getting waay too passionate, he was raising his voice level, like something was torturing his soul and wanted to scream it out...
What on earth is going on with this guy...

At work he is very king, never offends anyone, he is very responsible and always willing to help everyone. But on the other hand he is constantly asking people to tell him what features he has that make him more special than other people...

[Bill3]

You have certainly given a lot of reasons to stay away from him!

I do not know if he's a narcissist, but he sure sounds off-putting. It sounds like you know he's not for you.

[~Christina]

Whether he’s a narcissistic jerk or just a lousy human being you need to just stop any communication with him across the board.

[Blueskyx]

A narcissistic person has a limited capability in understanding that what they're thinking is ment to guide them and that it doesn't have to be true or right. You can think about a situation where you walk in the dark and there you see a person standing from a distance. When you get closer, you see it's not a person, it's actually a statue, it just looked like a person because of the shape of the statue. In social situations you can see it like that as well, something can look like something, but what someones body/brain makes out of it is based on what a person learned and what a person can see, hear, etc. Most people have this understanding as a result of life experiences without being consciously aware of that, a narcissistic person however tends to think something is true or right simply because they are thinking it. This also means they are thinking this way about other people, so what a person says it's true/untrue or right/wrong or when it doesn't match with what they are thinking they usually think what the other person thinks is untrue/wrong.

There are all kinds of different types of narcissistic people, but often it tends to go a bit in 2 opposite directions when it comes to talking about themselves. There is a type of narcissistic person who mainly only talks about themself and has very little interest in knowing more about other people other than maybe basic information. They talk about themselves kind of as a way of advertising themselves (not to be confused with a person who is actually advertising a service or product) and may use a lot of values and "wisdom quotes" to show how much of a great person they are. The other type is more covert, usually also more antisocial, barely talks about themself and wants to know a lot about the other to know how to manipulate the person.

Someone who believes that what they think is right, is or at least should be also the reality for another person (so if a person isn't doing what they think is right, then what this person is doing is wrong), I would say this matches with narcissistic behavior. Comparing with other people is a typical thing narcissistic people do as a way to manipulate someone to behave more the way the narcissist wants, there can also be other reasons why a person would compare, but in this situation it looks like you were supposed to act more the way he wanted. A person being very serious about their opinions and seeing them as well thought, I wouldn't see that as narcissistic behavior, because for a narcissistic person their beliefs don't have to be well thought to be true, just them thinking it is enough. Seeing little importance in what other people do, it depens a bit if it's about specific things with well thought reasons, but narcissistic people usually see themselves as more important/valuable than others and see very little value in other people (their lifes and what they do or say). A person having no friends can be a result of narcissism, but it can also have a lot of other reasons.

Narcissistic and antisocial people usually don't feel much and kind of feel more (alive) as a result of what's called narcissistic supply (things that make them feel important/special/needed).
The last thing can be a result of being judged in a positive way based on comparisons, so it was good, because it was better than..., something that's also often a part of narcissism.

[frustlandlady]

Originally Posted by Blueskyx

A person being very serious about their opinions and seeing them as well thought, I wouldn't see that as narcissistic behavior, because for a narcissistic person their beliefs don't have to be well thought to be true, just them thinking it is enough. Seeing little importance in what other people do, it depends a bit if it's about specific things with well thought reasons, but narcissistic people usually see themselves as more important/valuable than others and see very little value in other people (their lifes and what they do or say). A person having no friends can be a result of narcissism, but it can also have a lot of other reasons.

Narcissistic and antisocial people usually don't feel much and kind of feel more (alive) as a result of what's called narcissistic supply (things that make them feel important/special/needed).
The last thing can be a result of being judged in a positive way based on comparisons, so it was good, because it was better than..., something that's also often a part of narcissism.

I see your point... Well narcissism also has a spectrum, some people meet the criteria in a much higher grade than others do... Not all of them are the same. He might be in the lower edge of it...

Now I am even more confused, because he found many reasons to praise me, but also many reasons not to... And also he found many aspects to agree in some of my thoughts, but in many others no... And when I said no in some things he said "Okey, I don't expect people to do that", although he might have said it because I left away after certain things...

The only sure thing is that he is a super judgemental person with the human kind in general, which is a sign, and also has a mania with perfection in everything which is a sign also. He meets many on the narcissism criteria, just not in the higher grade possible.

I am not concerned about having him in my life, I am concerned if there is any hope for him to get out of this situation, cause it is very painful for him also... I am sorry for these people. Their soul has been totally abused, when they were kids obviously...

Do you think he might just be a veeeeery egoistic person?

[divine1966]

To quote my therapist it’s a waste of time trying to figure out why people do what they do, you may never get an answer. Diagnosing others also is usually a waste of time.

It doesn’t matter if he is narcissist or is he just a jerk or is suffering while being a jerk or is he egotistical or if he was abused etc All it matters that he isn’t a good dating or relationship material for you and it’s wise to stop communicating or going out with him.

[TishaBuv]

It sounds like he had controlling, high expectations for you on the very first date. His aggression is concerning, and I think you did the best thing by telling him you are not the person for him. It’s like he took the relationship to a really committed level in his mind before you even had your first date and then acted rather abusively on the date. He was telling you he was disappointed with you for not living up to his expectations on the first date! I don’t know if he’s a narcissist, but you did right by running!

[frustlandlady]

Originally Posted by TishaBuv

It’s like he took the relationship to a really committed level in his mind before you even had your first date and then acted rather abusively on the date. He was telling you he was disappointed with you for not living up to his expectations on the first date!

Exactly. But the strange thing is that later on he was fully conscious about what he was doing, because he told me "I don't want to push anyone to run 100 miles in 10 seconds" after I told him that he was going way too fast. He fully understood what he did.

[mountainstream]

I would stay away from him.

[Blueskyx]

Originally Posted by frustlandlady

Exactly. But the strange thing is that later on he was fully conscious about what he was doing, because he told me "I don't want to push anyone to run 100 miles in 10 seconds" after I told him that he was going way too fast. He fully understood what he did.

People with a low awareness/understanding may have still found out things that seemed to work or not work for them, so they may found out it was harder to have influence over someone who was in a position of being a somewhat stranger than a person who was more close to them. So by moving fast and quickly trying to get a person in a position where a person has some close relationship them with, they might think it would be more easy for them to have control over this person to act more according to "the truth" and what's "right".

[Britedark]

Both my parents are narcissists so I can tell one thing off the cuff. Narcissists can be charming like hell when they wish to seduce you. The person you mentioned is a jerk for sure and you are right in having no further contacts with him. If he is a narcissist, then you are lucky he showed his hand so quickly. It is also possible that the 'charm' didn’t quite work on you, in which case I congratulate you. Keep that radar open at all times!

[frustlandlady]

Originally Posted by Britedark

Both my parents are narcissists so I can tell one thing off the cuff. Narcissists can be charming like hell when they wish to seduce you. The person you mentioned is a jerk for sure and you are right in having no further contacts with him. If he is a narcissist, then you are lucky he showed his hand so quickly. It is also possible that the 'charm' didn’t quite work on you, in which case I congratulate you. Keep that radar open at all times!

He is not very charming. He is well put together as far as we talking about appearance, but you can not say he is charming. He is mostly serious and I would say he has a facial expression of dissatisfaction most of the time. Like someone who is frustrated with his life for years. Also hardly he smiles around people in general.

You think his description matches with your parents description?

[s4ndm4n2006]

Originally Posted by frustlandlady

Hallo to everyone. So here I am with a new date and many concerns about him...

After one and a half month of meeting at work he invited me out, he did everything to make it easy for me, as I have no car and it was not easy for me to go on that specific day.
With few words, 95% of the time he was talking about himself, expressing how important it is for him to feel great with a woman, to make him feel that special person he has never felt before. He said that I am a very sweet and caring person and he was expecting me to be that woman. He asked me a few typical things to get to know me better, like my interests and what I am doing in general without trying to know my opinion on different subjects.

Meanwhile, I could not express any opinion on his life matters that he was talking about without being judged in an impolite way like "Is this all you have to say? I am telling you this and this and this and all you have to say is this?".

Meanwhile, I was very cautious with this situation and he kept saying "I was expecting you to react in the X way, I was expecting you to tell me the X thing to show that you were thinking of me" etc etc pointing out a dozen of things that he wanted to here and I did not say.
4 days later he called me complaining that I didn't even text him to ask how he is doing (Would you have called him after that date?), mentioning again all the things that I should have done and I didn't do to show him how much I care etc etc. He even compared me with a supposed lady that made him feel super special when he was young. I told him "I am not this special person you are looking for and I wish you to find that person" and never had contact with him again apart from a typical "hallo" at work.

Some last details, both times he kept saying that he feels veeeeery sure about his opoinions, he kept saying that most of the things people do are of no importance and that he is sick of people's behaviors, that he has thought much of every detail of every life aspect and that what opinion he expresses is very serious and well thought. He also has no friends (as far as I know).

But the thing that feared me the most was when he was talking about how he sees life and and how much he needs to feel strong emotions, he was getting waay too passionate, he was raising his voice level, like something was torturing his soul and wanted to scream it out...
What on earth is going on with this guy...

At work he is very king, never offends anyone, he is very responsible and always willing to help everyone. But on the other hand he is constantly asking people to tell him what features he has that make him more special than other people...

to be honest, narcissism is not at all what you describe. this is a person that lacks the self confidence and has issues with his own self image. He looks to others to tell him he's special not because he thinks he is, but the opposite is true, he lacks the ability to see his own positive traits in himself and his own uniqueness and bases all of his own self image on what others say. this is not what my understanding of a narcissist at all. Yes it is still behavior that is self directed and comes off as self absorbed but I believe a narc would believe themselves to be more important and superior in some if not many ways than other people and they have no doubts about it. I'm not stating this from clinical description but just based on what I understand myself, of what people consider narcissistic traits.

Now on another note I did just look up info on narcissism and from that article, true narcissism is rare. I had the feeling it was but this confirms that. someone that is conceited, self absorbed and has a superiority complex is not necessarily a narcissist though it does seem appropriate to say people like that are showing narcissistic traits.

But I would say in summary that you probably made a wise choice. whether a narc or someone as I described, lacking in a strong self image, both would be a bad idea to be involved with. He seems dependent on other people to make him feel good about himself and that's the last thing you need if you're looking for a mate on the same level as you.

[frustlandlady]

Originally Posted by s4ndm4n2006

to be honest, narcissism is not at all what you describe. this is a person that lacks the self confidence and has issues with his own self image. He looks to others to tell him he's special not because he thinks he is, but the opposite is true, he lacks the ability to see his own positive traits in himself and his own uniqueness and bases all of his own self image on what others say. this is not what my understanding of a narcissist at all. Yes it is still behavior that is self directed and comes off as self absorbed but I believe a narc would believe themselves to be more important and superior in some if not many ways than other people and they have no doubts about it. I'm not stating this from clinical description but just based on what I understand myself, of what people consider narcissistic traits.

Now on another note I did just look up info on narcissism and from that article, true narcissism is rare. I had the feeling it was but this confirms that. someone that is conceited, self absorbed and has a superiority complex is not necessarily a narcissist though it does seem appropriate to say people like that are showing narcissistic traits.

But I would say in summary that you probably made a wise choice. whether a narc or someone as I described, lacking in a strong self image, both would be a bad idea to be involved with. He seems dependent on other people to make him feel good about himself and that's the last thing you need if you're looking for a mate on the same level as you.

You made me feel a little better and thank you for this, because I was soooo scared to meet a person that I thought it was a narc. Even thought I did not continue with him, I was still scared of what he could possibly do...
Well yeah, I think you are right. His constant complain is "Nobody has ever told me some good words about me". He lacks self esteem for sure... And something is still wrong in general...

[TishaBuv]

You work with him, so you have to see him. Be careful. Try to put the relationship back to cordial co-employee. His aggressiveness of criticizing you for not being as he thought you should be (on the first date) was concerning regardless of any diagnosis. He could potentially be dangerous.

[Britedark]

Originally Posted by frustlandlady

He is not very charming. He is well put together as far as we talking about appearance, but you can not say he is charming. He is mostly serious and I would say he has a facial expression of dissatisfaction most of the time. Like someone who is frustrated with his life for years. Also hardly he smiles around people in general.

You think his description matches with your parents description?

That is how my parents act around people they don't care about. But if they wish to impress, they can be the most engaging/ charismatic/ gregarious/ flirty / caring... They are experts at sweeping you off your feet at first. They are also experts at psychological manipulation. I hope I am making sense? But once you know their tricks you will find none of that superficial charm even remotely attractive.

[Discombobulated]

I don't think you should give him too much thought although I know that is often easier said than done.

He is who he is and there is likely very little you can say or do to change that - he is the only one who can change himself and he has to want to do that.

[frustlandlady]

Originally Posted by Britedark

That is how my parents act around people they don't care about. But if they wish to impress, they can be the most engaging/ charismatic/ gregarious/ flirty / caring... They are experts at sweeping you off your feet at first. They are also experts at psychological manipulation. I hope I am making sense? But once you know their tricks you will find none of that superficial charm even remotely attractive.

I ment if my initial post matches with your parents behavior...

[mountainstream]

Originally Posted by Britedark

Both my parents are narcissists so I can tell one thing off the cuff. Narcissists can be charming like hell when they wish to seduce you. The person you mentioned is a jerk for sure and you are right in having no further contacts with him. If he is a narcissist, then you are lucky he showed his hand so quickly. It is also possible that the 'charm' didn’t quite work on you, in which case I congratulate you. Keep that radar open at all times!

Good post.

[Silver_Eagle]

My advice...run away from him as fast as you can. He's on his best behavior right now. It will only get worse!

[Britedark]

Hi Frustlandlady! Sorry for misunderstanding what you meant. Some of the traits you mentioned in your post definitely sound like my parents. I will point out which. But I am no expert in psychology, I am just sharing my observations with you.

95% of the time he was talking about himself, expressing how important it is for him to feel great with a woman, to make him feel that special person he has never felt before. He said that I am a very sweet and caring person and he was expecting me to be that woman. He asked me a few typical things to get to know me better, like my interests and what I am doing in general without trying to know my opinion on different subjects.

This is typical narcissistic behaviour. In our house every conversation leads back to our parents and how they feel on various subjects. I think he was trying to condition you, to make you jump through the hoops to please him by living up to his expectations. This behaviour is typically narcissistic.

Meanwhile, I could not express any opinion on his life matters that he was talking about without being judged in an impolite way like "Is this all you have to say? I am telling you this and this and this and all you have to say is this?".

More conditioning. He is teaching you which reactions are acceptable to him and which aren't. We have literally grown up with these conditionings drilled into our heads. Any lapses on our part were severely punished.

Meanwhile, I was very cautious with this situation and he kept saying "I was expecting you to react in the X way, I was expecting you to tell me the X thing to show that you were thinking of me" etc etc pointing out a dozen of things that he wanted to here and I did not say.

You had started walking on eggshells already. This is a normal reaction to all abusive behaviour, not just narcissistic.

He even compared me with a supposed lady that made him feel super special when he was young.

This is classic, textbook narcissism. Comparing you to somebody (a) to make you feel bad about yourself and (b) to encourage you to try harder to please him. Great job dodging that bullet and asserting your own identity. A woman with lower self esteem might have fallen into that trap.

Some last details, both times he kept saying that he feels veeeeery sure about his opoinions, he kept saying that most of the things people do are of no importance and that he is sick of people's behaviors, that he has thought much of every detail of every life aspect and that what opinion he expresses is very serious and well thought.

Can we call this a grandiose sense of self? A belief that he is special and can only be understood by other special people? That in fact, if you can understand him you should consider it a privilege? That's the sort of idea a narcissist will try to give you.

But the thing that feared me the most was when he was talking about how he sees life and and how much he needs to feel strong emotions, he was getting waay too passionate, he was raising his voice level, like something was torturing his soul and wanted to scream it out...

This bit sounds more histrionic than narcissistic. My mother has a high amount of both traits (NPD with high level histrionic) and this sounds more like her than my dad.

At work he is very king, never offends anyone, he is very responsible and always willing to help everyone. But on the other hand he is constantly asking people to tell him what features he has that make him more special than other people...[/QUOTE]

The politeness could be genuine or it could be a mask. Like I said my parents are experts at duping people into believing they are kind, sweet, angelic..you name it. Nobody ever believed my sister or me when we told them what horrible upbringing we had. It is only in private that they show their true colours.

Having said all that, only a qualified person can accurately diagnose this guy. You sensed something off about him and I agree that there were plenty of red flags. Hope my response helped?

[Mendingmysoul]

You already have good advises. The post by britedark has explained very well.Diagnosed npd or not but red flags are there for sure.You need to be extra careful for your own welfare around this guy.His behaviour is alarming.

[frustlandlady]

Originally Posted by Britedark

Hi Frustlandlady! Sorry for misunderstanding what you meant. Some of the traits you mentioned in your post definitely sound like my parents. I will point out which. But I am no expert in psychology, I am just sharing my observations with you.

95% of the time he was talking about himself, expressing how important it is for him to feel great with a woman, to make him feel that special person he has never felt before. He said that I am a very sweet and caring person and he was expecting me to be that woman. He asked me a few typical things to get to know me better, like my interests and what I am doing in general without trying to know my opinion on different subjects.

This is typical narcissistic behaviour. In our house every conversation leads back to our parents and how they feel on various subjects. I think he was trying to condition you, to make you jump through the hoops to please him by living up to his expectations. This behaviour is typically narcissistic.

Meanwhile, I could not express any opinion on his life matters that he was talking about without being judged in an impolite way like "Is this all you have to say? I am telling you this and this and this and all you have to say is this?".

More conditioning. He is teaching you which reactions are acceptable to him and which aren't. We have literally grown up with these conditionings drilled into our heads. Any lapses on our part were severely punished.

Meanwhile, I was very cautious with this situation and he kept saying "I was expecting you to react in the X way, I was expecting you to tell me the X thing to show that you were thinking of me" etc etc pointing out a dozen of things that he wanted to here and I did not say.

You had started walking on eggshells already. This is a normal reaction to all abusive behaviour, not just narcissistic.

He even compared me with a supposed lady that made him feel super special when he was young.

This is classic, textbook narcissism. Comparing you to somebody (a) to make you feel bad about yourself and (b) to encourage you to try harder to please him. Great job dodging that bullet and asserting your own identity. A woman with lower self esteem might have fallen into that trap.

Some last details, both times he kept saying that he feels veeeeery sure about his opoinions, he kept saying that most of the things people do are of no importance and that he is sick of people's behaviors, that he has thought much of every detail of every life aspect and that what opinion he expresses is very serious and well thought.

Can we call this a grandiose sense of self? A belief that he is special and can only be understood by other special people? That in fact, if you can understand him you should consider it a privilege? That's the sort of idea a narcissist will try to give you.

But the thing that feared me the most was when he was talking about how he sees life and and how much he needs to feel strong emotions, he was getting waay too passionate, he was raising his voice level, like something was torturing his soul and wanted to scream it out...

This bit sounds more histrionic than narcissistic. My mother has a high amount of both traits (NPD with high level histrionic) and this sounds more like her than my dad.

At work he is very king, never offends anyone, he is very responsible and always willing to help everyone. But on the other hand he is constantly asking people to tell him what features he has that make him more special than other people...

The politeness could be genuine or it could be a mask. Like I said my parents are experts at duping people into believing they are kind, sweet, angelic..you name it. Nobody ever believed my sister or me when we told them what horrible upbringing we had. It is only in private that they show their true colours.

Having said all that, only a qualified person can accurately diagnose this guy. You sensed something off about him and I agree that there were plenty of red flags. Hope my response helped?

I am really shocked... ...

Thanks everyone for the opinions. It has been almost 10 days and I did not call or text him back. I hope I made the right desicion...

[Open Eyes]

From what you have shared of this guy, he was looking for ways to control you and have you praise him as "superior". He is looking for a woman that puts him on a pedastal where HE is superior. In other words, you have to fit in HIS world otherwise you can never be good enough or nice enough or worthy enough for him.

From what you have described of him, while he may have provided "some" nicities on your date, he made it clear to you how the world revolves around "him". People like that don't really consider and respect how YOU feel and what YOU care about, instead things have to revolve around THEM. People like this are more apt to cheat, they get bored when they don't get enough attention and are not all that interested in what is really important to others unless ofcourse it in some way benefits them. They also tend to be "selfish" sexually, it's all about what gives "them" satisfaction and they don't know how to really "love and give" to others. Also, if things don't go well, it's your fault cause they are NEVER the ones at fault.