Arguing in relationships - what's normal?

Basically, I just want to see how far from the norm I am with regards to this.

I enjoy arguing, and I deliberately seek out relationships (romantic or otherwise) that are somewhat antagonistic. I try to keep this somewhat healthy by finding likeminded individuals to argue with, and being respectful of those who don't wish to argue. But lately I've been wondering if the people who seem to enjoy arguing actually do, or if they're just putting up with my toxic garbage personality for some other reason, like they're too nice to tell me off or something.

Why do you enjoy arguing?

And what do you mostly argue about?

In short, it's fun.

I think because it's more challenging and keeps my mind occupied in the same way that playing chess or poker does. And if I'm more engaged in the discussion, I end up learning more about the topic as a result.

Moreover, there are a lot of social expectations when it comes to close relationships. Which I understand on some level and can navigate somewhat. But it feels a bit like I'm walking on eggshells with most people. With more antagonistic relationships, there's less expectation of that, so I don't have to restrain myself so much and don't have to perform the normal politeness. I can be a little more myself, essentially.

And anything*. The topic is less important than the desire to win.

*within reason

Do you gaslight and lie when you argue, being that the goal is to win?

Probably.

I'm trying to be more aware of it. It's a slow process. Not sure how well it's going. Heh.

My dad loves to argue. The funniest thing is that he hates it when people refuse to engage in arguments with him. He is the most excited when others get dragged into arguments with him. My brother and I play this game with him, long story but kind of like being a “grey rock” in a way. We don’t engage

He eventually figured that we aren’t engaging in arguing (we used to when we were younger), we don’t put up with crap but don’t get dragged into it, so he now argues with customer service reps, eBay customers or employees, various organizations, city council etc etc it’s quite hilarious, some things are unbelievable. He clearly enjoys it and he’s been like this always on and off.

I am married and we rarely argue. We do have disagreements but mild and it’s always me being displeased about something, but it’s never intense arguments or anything. My husband is easy going so he is rarely displeased lol

Many people have combative relationships and they enjoy it. That’s fine. Not for me. In addition we both have very demanding tiring stressful jobs. No way we’d come home and fight. Heck no. I’d not be married to an argumentative guy. I like peaceful home

I do need atypical amount of space in relationships though. But that’s not topic of this thread.

Maybe you should go into politics. They are ALWAYS agruing and they lie and gaslight alot too. Dont seem to care as long as they win elections.

Just a thought

Sometimes the pay off of a good couple’s fight is great make up sex.

Do you mean like debating? Or a full on emotional mean argument?

Hi theoretical.

I remember when I was younger, I used debate/argue, even to the point of anger, quite regularly. It was all about ego and wanting to be Mr Right. But to be honest, I did kind of enjoy it, yes. Very intellectual! Very intelligent! haha. But as time went by I realized it actually alienates a lot of people as well. People felt uneasy around me, tolerated me, and that realization I didn't enjoy.

My opinion is, yes, some or maybe even most people, are just putting up with you, and are 'too nice' as you put it, to tell you so. I don't actually know what the norm is regarding constant debating/arguing but I do think most people steer clear of it, or eventually learn to steer clear of it.

But if you can find friends who totally get into it, then cool.

Yeah, I know there are avenues I could take that would allow me to utilize this "skill" with fewer repercussions, and I make an effort to stick to those paths.

But that isn't what I'm asking. What I want to know is how this sort of behavior affects the average person. Obviously, engaging in this manner doesn't bother me and never has, so I don't really understand how it affects other people. In the past, when I completely "removed the mask," so to speak, I was a bit surprised to find out how damaging it actually was. Initially, I blamed other people for being too sensitive (which one might call gaslighting). But it kept happening, and I think I'm self-aware enough now to admit that maybe it isn't everyone else around me who's wrong.

I've heard that. It's a sort of dynamic that can turn toxic real quick though.

Both. I try to stick to the former, but the former can easily lead into the latter, and I don't always have the sensitivity to know when to back off.

Right, I found myself in this position as well. To be honest, after I got over the initial shock of it, I didn't mind it that much. I'd still like to know when it's happening, though. It's one thing to deliberately craft a thorny personality so that people keep their distance. It's quite another drive people away inadvertently because one can't control one's own belligerence.

Cool. So what would be the best way of finding out who's down for some combative discussion? Or better, what's a good way to tell if someone isn't down for it before any feelings get hurt?

This is what I'm trying to avoid. Being that one asshole who argues with customer service reps because they don't have a way out without losing their jobs.

Yeah, I think just engage people how you normally do, but as you're having a debate or what have you, just pull back if you notice that they're not looking happy anymore, ha. Try to take note of peoples tone of voice. If you sense that they're getting angry, just wind it down and change the subject to something else. Facial expressions, too, can reveal quite a bit about how someone might be feeling without them actually telling you, as well.

And if none of those signs are there and people seem okay to continue a relationship with you, then that's great. I mean I'm really not the relationships expert but those are my basic tools.

Have you tried to look into something that could minimize your desire to argue? Like job that engages your emotions and mind, exciting hobbies, going back to school to get another degree? Art? Sports?anything to occupy your mind etc? Things like debates and public policy etc? You might find more interesting things than just arguing. Most people I know have no time and energy to engage in arguing.

Pardon the delay. I was away.

Ahaha. Belligerent asshole is my normal.

I think it's best I just try to keep my distance from people.

Of course I have.

You’ve said you feel like you’re fight to be right and win an argument. Is that the reason? Why is it so important to you to be right? Do you feel disrespected in other areas, like your job?

I have issues where I have been fighting for love. I understand how that is pointless.

I said the desire to win was most important.

I don't feel disrespected anywhere, nor do I feel like I need to fight in order to obtain something; e.g. respect, love, to be proven right, or whatever else. I'm just a combative person.

Divine said that most people lack the energy to be arguing all the time, which I presume means that most people feel emotionally drained by arguments. In that case, then what sort of conversation do most people find to be energizing? What types of interactions do you seek out and enjoy?

The goal is to enjoy each other and experiences together. Laughing and good conversation is much better than fighting conversation. Sharing similarities, sharing differences while respecting each other, lifting each other forms bonds.

Most people come home from their draining workday to want to chill with someone on their team.

Yeah, that sort of interaction usually requires effort on my part to stay engaged, especially if it involves anything emotional. I don't mind doing it, but it's draining for me in the same way that arguments are draining for most people.

I don’t think I necessarily meant that people are drained from arguing. It’s more like other stuff is more interesting and more engaging and if people have to choose between some enrichment activity and arguing, arguing isn’t going to be a priority. I don’t think it’s necessarily draining, it’s just extremely uninteresting for some. That’s why I wondered if you look for other things that maybe make some difference in the world or otherwise fulfilling and interesting.

So normal folk don't like to argue. Got it.

I'm just going to avoid people.

If you like to argue in order to be right, that would mean your opponent would be wrong. Who likes to be wrong all the time?

My husband said to me yesterday, “You just want to fight with everybody.” i really didn’t think that was true. I just want them to treat me with love. They don’t. It angers me. I tell them off. Now I want to isolate, too.

I’ve had relationships in the past where we got into a flirty, play fight that got us both hot and led to great sex. I like that kind of fighting. It never got mean. It was just saucy.

What kinds of things do you find yourself fighting about? Why does the other person not agree with you and argues with you?

No, that isn't the point at all. I don't even mind losing as long as the fight was entertaining enough and I learned something from it.

You’re not that alone then. I like that, too. My FOO is like that. We debate. It makes for animated, interesting conversation. We don’t get mean with personal attacks.

Oh yeah, I know I'm not alone. I've met quite a few people who are almost always down for a good fight, and I get on rather well with them. Usually.

I just wanted to know if it was normal, and if it isn't, how normal people tend to react to such hostile interactions.

“ how normal people tend to react to such hostile interactions” — I assume there are only a small percentage of people looking for a hostile fight. Most people will avoid it. They deal with it when they need to. They don’t enjoy it.

Haven’t you observed that for yourself? Do you agree with me, based on your environment? You may be in a world where lots of people around you like a good, nasty fight.

I suppose in my environment, people do fight for power, and often like to act like they are the smartest in the room. But it’s subtle. I’ve rarely seen outright hostile and nasty.

I’ve had some hostile altercations. I sure didn’t want it to go that way, but when it did I held my ground. I try to soften the hostility and find something to agree upon, but sometimes the other person wants to battle and there’s no making peace.