Can't talk to my wife

Well perhaps her behavior is her way of controlling her discomfort about her body. Possibly in seeking attention confirming that she is physically attractive helps her feel she has a sense of control.

I have learned a great deal in both reading and therapy how different individuals can behave in dysfunctional ways in order to gain a sense of control. My sister claims to have “special powers” so nothing you say to her is important as she knows all. She tends to embrace delusional thinking.

When another person has disordered thinking nothing you say can do much to change that. This doesn’t mean you are a bad person or don’t deserve respect. It’s very possible if not probable that a disordered person will not be able to listen to how others feel. All feelings are often more about them. This has been consistent in discussing different scenarios I have encountered with my therapist.

Guy111, did you read about body dysphoric disorder? That’s a challenging disorder for a person to struggle with. It has mood challenges and anxiety and some ocd issues and a need for constant reassurance that a persons appearance is ok.

I find myself wishing you had shared that at the beginning as it explains a lot of the behaviors you are experiencing in your wife.

So many keep focusing on behaviors and often say the why doesn’t matter. Well, I disagree with that opinion as often the why actually is important.

This explains why your opinion of how she looks is not enough for her also why she constantly struggles with self esteem issues as well.

When all one focuses on is the behaviors it can actually lead down a path of blaming a person for something they can’t help. That’s something I most definitely witnessed someone face a lot of abuse from instead of being helped to work around their condition and even manage it better.

I had to learn how to understand individuals whose brains are wired differently than mine. My entire life has been constantly dealing with someone close to me that has adhd and dyslexia. There are behavior patterns in these challenges that can trigger me because of traumas I experienced that are connected to these challenges in others that were not understood.

It’s hard when other people’s behaviors were a source of such a threat to one’s sense of safety has resulted in suffering from ptsd. The desire to have your hurt feelings heard is very strong. Ptsd is a brain disorder where an individual a can suffer from intrusive overwhelming emotions where that individuals frontal executive frontal lobe does get overwhelmed. Often the damage created that results in someone suffering can be caused by a dysfunctional disordered individual or even from more than one individual.

When someone says “you can’t control the behaviors in others only your own behaviors”? Well that’s something most pretty much figure out when growing up with dysfunctional parents. It’s also something a person learns when they have a challenge and instead of being helped, they find ways to manage it themselves.

It’s very possible even probable that your wife developed this habit that bothers you as a way to help her manage the anxieties and depression and social inadequacies she constantly struggles with due to this disorder that most develop in their early teens.

This disorder is something inherited so you will need to pay attention to that possibly showing up in your children. This is experienced in both males and females. For that possibility alone learning about it is important.

As I mentioned I suffer from ptsd myself. I understand that need to have your feelings heard and the desire to have respect. I am 63 and learning about how disordered individuals affected me in ways I did not realize. I have learned my biggest weakness tends to stem from witnessing a lot of abuse and seeing the hurt it caused and not understanding why people choose to do things to hurt others. For myself I can get triggered when I see another person get hurt and no one is helping them. I had tried to figure out ways to help someone being hurt since I was very young. I wanted to help them feel better somehow. I wanted to help them not feel so hurt. I witnessed too much hurting in my home and I hated it.

Personally I feel that if all you focus on are behaviors and your own feelings than you may decide that the behaviors of others is more about you than you should determine and that if your not getting heard means you are not valued or worthy of respect. Well I watched a little boy endure both physical and psychological and emotional abuse because his adhd and dyslexic behaviors were considered he was just choosing to not listen and be bad.

Personally, I think all this need to be the star and superior and top person is all BS. IMHO even though human beings are so intelligent they can also be very stupid too. I sat across from individuals that are supposed to understand how to help someone struggling and confused decide importance and value when they have no experience what so ever in what another person achieved and lost. So this individual thinking they are superior believes some thing they know nothing about has no value simply because it has no value to them personally. It’s no wonder there is such a strong desire to want others to understand us better. It’s no wonder relationships are such a challenge.

Your wife needs to understand her disorder and how her ways of managing it can affect others. You also need to learn about her disorder so you don’t get so triggered by how she is managing it. It may trigger hurts in you that caused you hurt in the past yet your wife is not these toxic individuals. Your wife has a disorder and so do you.

I think you both need more than just a marriage counselor. Instead you both need a therapist that understands each of your disorders and can guide each of you towards better understanding each other.

What you have right now is not working.

Thank you. I agree.

Thank you! Your insights are amazing. You are giving me hope to keep working towards a healthy mind and a healthy relationship! Maybe urging her to get help for her own sake will at least distract her long enough for me to get some rest and healing. Ha ha.

Sorry about you and your sister. I know PTSD can make us feel like we have to take on the world's problems.

Maybe your wife never got help for this challenge. That in itself can end up being a burden and create ongoing problems in a relationship and not just for you but your children and even other relationships.

At least if she gets help she can learn her own part in your relationship challenges instead of walking away from you constantly hissing. In turn it takes some pressure off of you so you can keep working on your own challenges.

I know for myself that one of the ongoing challenges I have dealt with is how my husband has not gotten help for his bad adhd challenges and that has been a constant burden on me. I end up getting blamed for the problem all being me and the ptsd and that in itself can be very triggering. At times I end up being a scape goat when I really don’t deserve it.

My husband had a problem with alcohol as many with adhd develop to self medicate while he has been sober for 28 years he can still practice denials and blame me when he needs to understand how his adhd can be a problem so he doesn’t blame me when he has the problem. I do get tired of always having to understand everyone else and others don’t learn how their intrusive behaviors can do affect others. With his challenge there is a spectrum and he is high on the spectrum. It’s very hard to live with a person who is so loud and intrusive while struggling with ptsd. I can very much relate to your strong desire to have your feelings heard.

We often think that a person is abusing us or is bad and often it’s not as intentional as it appears. Adhd and dyslexia and autism and aspergers are nothing new. What is new is how we are gaining on understanding these challenges. Not everything always boils down to intentional disrespect and abuse.

My older sister is an entirely different challenge. She takes too much pleasure in hurting and in reading an article this morning about narcissistic and sociopathic behavior I do remember her observing me and trying to copy how I am empathetic and she tends to play the role yet her goal is control and getting whatever she can for herself. It’s as though she is the opposite of me and hates my ability to empathize just as the article describes. The degree of just how dark she can go is shocking and frightful. It’s so hard to wrap my mind around how a person enjoys causing hurt. That it brings that individual a sense of superiority is incredible.

I have described how terrible she can be and often unless a person witnesses it they don’t believe me. This kind of individual literally enjoys shattering another’s self esteem. I do suffer from ptsd but also narcissistic abuse syndrome and complicated grief disorder. Yup a real piece of work. I know a lot cause I have experienced a lot. I have spent a lot of time learning about a lot of whys behind behaviors.

I definitely feel it’s important to understand the whys behind behaviors. Even my own behaviors have reasons I have been slowly understanding.

To me, the commitment to your relationship sounds genuine. Sometimes displacing emotions can confuse us and maybe that is why we search for reasons behind our behaviors. Sexual attention is attention after all. Look to see what other kind of attention she appreciates, and continue to practice your own values- even if they go unappreciated. As we care for our relationships, we tend to loose sight of what we want too. Does she no longer communicate in ways that were effective in the start of your relationship? Maybe remind her of what your needs are. I’m sure she feels your attention to her, and maybe she is distracted in different ways by the realities and hardships of life. Together is better. Even if we don’t include ourselves or things about the negatives, we can work through issues with communication through actions, words and sometimes silence too.

I give her plenty of attention. She loves any type of attention, but she really lights up when I give her compliments on her physical appearance. Even if she is upset with me and I don't even give her a genuine compliment she lights up. It is bizzare to me. But it's never enough.

Like I said before, I set aside all my other needs because this one issue drives me crazy. I need fidelity. I am a sexual being as well, but I refuse to take affections from other people for that exact reason. I don't want anyone else's physical or emotional attraction. It actually makes me feel weird and wrong. I've been through so much abuse in this area that I can't handle it anymore. Isn't that the only real difference between a great plutonic friendship and a romantic one? Why do people need to flirt outside a marriage? I don't get it? It drives me nuts. Why do people shrug it off like it's no big deal? Would you flirt with endangering your children's safety? Isn't that your main purpose in a child's relatinship? Would you defend a bully against your own child? Is that cute and silly and innocent? Would you tell a child, "Hey, I feed you and shelter you and teach you to read. This bully you say, is actually a really nice kid. Stop being so dramatic. It's not like I'm taking care of him more than you. We don't even talk to eachother that often. He's your teacher's son's friend. It's no big deal, get over it".

Feeling defeated today. Maybe my PTSD getting the best of me. I feel so helpless against anything she says. I just can't talk to her. She seems so much happier since I stopped telling her my real feelings. Then if she ever brings up my feelings or thoughts, it's like she's relieved when I say I'm fine. She has been ranting on me for a couple weeks. She won't let me get a word in. I finally decided the other morning to just say something to shut her up for a little while. I told her, sorry if I made you feel that way. I didn't own up to actually doing anything wrong because I don't think I did. Plus, she doesn't want to hear my side any ways, which I don't want to give her as well because it just starts another fight.

Just emoting here since I have no outlet with her. I have friends and therapist I talk to as well, but this is quick and easy.

((guy111)), the truth is that there are people who simply do not know how to hear another person's feelings and comfort them. After a while a person like this literally shows you how they are happiest being the center of attention where THEIR emotional needs are their TRUE priority. They learn "petting" language which keeps others engaged in THEIR attention seeking and drama. Yes, you are right, emotional needy individuals don't really want to hear YOUR emotional needs, they are always MUCH HAPPIER when everything revolves around THEM, THEM, THEM. Petting language tends to come out like "aww you are so sweet, how thoughtful, thank you, thank you" and these little superficial ways of verbally petting as long as THEIR emotional needs are being pacified. That is what you have been sharing about your wife. And she is most likely doing this with these younger guys she engages with as well. And she likes younger guys because they tend to be niave where they don't know she is simply using them to gain her "ego fix or narcissistic feed". You have a history of being emotionally neglected, this makes you very susceptible to falling for someone who offers up superficial petting techniques. You were vulnerable to being drawn in to the "petting" techniques only to gradually begin to experience how your emotional needs are a burden and your true function is to focus on her emotional needs. Life is just wonderful as long as you stick to "her needs" and when YOU need, you learn how she doesn't want to sit with YOUR feelings AT ALL. You might get a oh poor you and a superficial hug, but that's about it. And yet, there can be times where your needs can create ANGER in her or even outright coldness and criticism.

Well, you can come across a well, a really attractive well that has a pretty little roof and a flower bed all around it too. Lots of people can remark on how attractive it is too. Yet, when you actually go to that well and lower the pretty little bucket because you are SO THIRSTY, that's when you discover there aint nothing in that well to satisfy your thirst. The ONLY thing you CAN do is fill that well with your own water. You can labor very hard, carrying buckets of water to try and make that well a REAL well too. Yet, you can never really get enough buckets of water in it so when you are thirsty you can lower a bucket and quench your thrist. Well, it looks like a well, it sure looked promising, but the truth is, the only way to get it to seem like it works, is by doing the labor and bringing buckets of water to at least have "some" water in it. The well has a voice, with each bucket you fetch to dump into the well, the well says "aww, that's good, thank you, thank you, and next thing you know you are getting more buckets to dump in the well. Then you worked so hard at it you get thirsty and you lower that bucket to get some for yourself, but, despite all your effort, the bucket comes up MAYBE with just a little bit, but never enough to satisfy your thirst.

It's not your fault the well is unable to really quench your thirst. What is your fault is to keep thinking the well can quench your thirst when no matter how many buckets you dump in it, no matter how many times you get "petted" with the sweet thank yous, the well CAN'T really give you the water you need.

Thats a great analogy! Thank you! I was literally journalling about a similar thought this morning. I was thinking, that, I have basic needs. Food, sex, social life. I need all these to give me energy. I can hold out on them for a short while, but not forever. Fine. I can use the energy I gain from them to put back into supporting my mate so that she can get her basic needs as well. Fine. It's a wash.

It would be nice if I could use some of that energy to expend on my love relationship with my mate. It would be nice if she spent some of her energy on loving me as well.

I feel like a robot in this relationship. If I need love (not sex obviously), I have to go to outside sources. Friends, family, kids. Problem there is, I foolishly end up spending some of the energy of love I get from outside sources back on my mate. Now it doesn't feel even. It is noble to give love without expecting any in return and I could very well die a satisfied man knowing I gave my life selflessly to others, bit it's not life to the fullest.

Thanks again!

I came across this video talk and found it VERY helpful. I am definitely one who asks the why and listening to this really helped me see some things in a different way. And actually, it does go along with what I shared about the Well analogy.

What is emotional blackmail and why to people do that? - Yahoo Video Search Results

Ok, this just shows my general search, sorry.

The one that helped me is "why do people emotionally abuse"

Cool stuff. It was mentioned, the blackmailer will actually be asking for legitimate needs sometimes but goes about it in the wrong way. Self sabatoge. I'm starting to try and put less emphasis on understanding her and more on understanding myself. But since we're talking about it, I kinda feel bad. She goes on these long rants for days/weeks but ends them with, "I'm done. I don't want to hear anything you have to say." So we never get to solutions. I hope eventually she runs out of steam and in desperation asks me for help. Either way, I'm at the point where I can't turn back. I can't play these games with her. I can't give in to the blackmail. She can't hold my thoughts, feelings and needs hostage any more. I am starting to really feel like a good person inside. I refuse to give that to her. If she wants to work things out, she needs to come to the table ready to talk like civilized adults.

Very good idea you have of putting the focus on your own needs and how you give in having to always tend to her needs and even end up feeling your needs are not important.

When another person leans disordered or narcissistic, they don't really LISTEN. They do not REALLY pay attention to YOUR emotional needs or what you even say to them. They typically look at things in very black and white ways where it's just a problem solve to them. X is fixed by Y. That constantly leaves the other person feeling "unheard" and "emotionally neglected". Typically, something is only important if it's important to them. This kind of individual doesn't really pay attention to "emotional needs", they tend be on the dry side that way. That's what I meant about the Well analogy, and often the Well, isn't deep enough to hold the water you pour into it, so there is really never enough for you to get when your emotional thursts develop. The Well, is in fact SHALLOW and no amount of your labor to fill it will change the fact that the Well, is simply just a shallow well.

That can be especially hard when someone struggles with ptsd due to experiencing a history of being emotionally abused or neglected. A person who can actually sit and LISTEN as you explain your emotional needs has the ability to CONSIDER and RESPECT your emotional needs. A person who CANNOT sit and LISTEN like that will only give you the X problem means do Y. And they do NOT remember YOUR emotional needs AT ALL. So you find yourself feeling very ALONE with your emotional needs, even feeling GUILTY for having emotional needs. Often a person simply develops "petting" techniques like I mentioned, but that's MORE about keeping YOU or OTHERS engaged in THEIR DRAMA, DRAMA, DRAMA.

These kind of individuals tend to attract individuals with "codependent" issues. And they can also attract individuals who problem solve because those people are handed enough control and petted to keep them engaged and feeling like they have the power which is what they care about the most.

You are living with a person that needs the world to revolve around her, she is disordered and is not capable of listening to how YOU feel. This can leave a person feeling that their needs are not important, even that if they share their feelings they may be punished or are told to "just ignore their feelings". The message is "don't bore me with your feelings, it has to be about Me, Me, Me". Don't you realize my Well is shallow and for me to function at all I need you to "fill me, fill me, fill me" and ALL I CAN DO IS hand you these little "petting" phrases so you keep laboring to fill MY SHALLOW WELL?

Ya, this behavior is continuing. It's crazy to me. I feel so disoriented. She was super mad at me for over a week. I couldn't get a word in. Then she goes to visit her girlfriend for a couple hours and when she gets back and she did a total 180 with no explaination. She was very affectionate and basically "forgot" her list of issues she had against me. My behavior has been consistent so I don't know what changed her mind. I went along with it for the night. We went out to dinner, came home, watched a movie. We had sex at the end of the night, then she said I could go to sleep since I have to wake up at 4:30 for work. Sounds like every guy's dream. No pillow talk. She was typing on her phone which keeps me awake, so it took me a while to fall asleep, but I'm just totally disoriented. I'm just gonna keep my behavior consistent. I'm not gonna let the lovey dovies blind me.

One more thing. Researching narcissism gives me bad vibes. I start to wonder if IM the narcisist. I mean, everything I do is to counteract her behavior. I can't just relax and be myself. Am I being fake just to appease her so she doesn't see that I am struggling? Maybe I'm making her crazy because she thinks she is being genuine, but senses that nothing I do is genuine?

If. you don't mind me saying and I could be off based. but it seems you are adapting your own behavior to her own toxic behaviors, and that you're just reacting to her and adjusting how you react based on her moods and whims. That is no way to live.

What you're describing does not at all sound narcissistic to me.

Thank you guys. I just get all mixed up in the head. Good to know I am on the right path. It's hard behaving in a new way. When the heat is on I want to regress into my old people pleasing behavior.

What would relaxing and being yourself look like guy111?

This is a good video talk another member posted in another thread about how being rejected can affect someone. It has some very good information in it that can help in understanding how our feelings can be hurt and ways we handle that where we can unknowingly make it worse instead of helping ourself heal. Perhaps this can help you better define what would help you relax and be yourself more.

Very good question! I think having people around me that respect my boundaries would help me relax ALOT!

This is a fascinating talk! I love the analogies of physical to mental. It's so basic and simple, I can't believe I've never heard it explained this way. I'm not sure if I agree with his theory that catharsis is not an effective treatment for healing. Other than that it is very well put. I started crying at the very beginning when he said a lot of people suffer from the damage of rejection. It especially resonated when he said he gets more and more patients having issues with social media and feeling rejected. I feel so crazy and unvalidated whenever I bring up social media issues. So this video is very refreshing. I haven't had time to finish the last 5-10 minutes when he talks about solutions. He did start off with talking about building self esteem as a solution which helps me know that I am right on track with being a better person.

Thank you so much for sharing this video. I would recommend it to anyone!

How about having people around you that genuinely respect your "feelings"? From what you share, it sounds like you are with someone that needs a lot of attention and praise and validation and when you have your own emotional needs, you don't get any of your own needs heard. The reason I used the Well analogy is because people pleasers and codependents tend to be trained to lug buckets to the pretty little charming Well, and they don't recognize how the Well is actually very shallow so when they get tired and thirsty and need from that Well, there is isn't enough depth to it that can can fill you when YOU need it. All the pretty little Well does is "superficial petting" as you continue to lug buckets to it so it doesn't dry up due to it being so shallow.

The shallow Well is happiest when it gets to be the center of attention where a lot of people are lugging buckets to it. So, the best place to get that is in an environment where there tends to be a lot of codependents and people pleasers or victims. Honestly, anyone can get sucked into servicing a shallow Well. They get very good in their "petting skills".

When I sat and listened to that talk the other day, I began to think about what kind of rejection I am suffering from. I have definitely been traumatized and "emotionally abused" by an extremely TOXIC person. What I realized about what got me more when it came to rejection is in my effort to reach out for help is I tended to get answers of "just ignore and comments that downplayed the abuse like it can't be THAT BAD". The one thing abusers don't like is "truth". Truth is not important, POWER and CONTROL is what's important to an abuser.

I think you are at a point in your relationship where you need to step back and really think about if "your needs" are important too in your relationship. Is your relationship always about servicing your wife's emotional needs? Sometimes, that dynamic happens in a relationship. Sometimes in a relationship one person is just plain shallow and the other person is doing all the lugging of buckets. It's also important to make sure you are not expecting your partner to fix whatever created your ptsd challenge too. Stepping back and thinking about what in you is feeling "rejection", can help you better define what "hurts" you and if it's something you need to fix yourself. What is it that you want "heard"?

Yes, I agree. I do need people around me that respect and validate my feelings. Unfortunately, my wife is not one of them. But I do get it here. So thank you. I really appreciate it. I mourn the loss of a friend who can listen. That is my wife. But I find it now with friends, family, therapist, etc. They keep me feeling balanced.

What would make me feel heard? A good question. One I wish my wife would ask with genuine interest and no judgement. So here is my answer. I would feel heard if I could say to her without interruption, "I feel disregarded when you xyz. It hurts my feelings" But I would truly truly feel heard if she responded with, "I hear that you don't like it when I xyz. I'm sorry that I hurt your feelings. That was not my intention. If it's important to you, it's important to me. I will work on not doing xyz." Then, I would be in absolute heaven if she would own her behavior without any blame shifting, regardless of whether or not she beleives it to be poor behavior, attempted to change it, and when she failed, to apologize.

This is what I do for her. I validate feelings and the behavior that she finds offensive. Whether or not I agree, I own it fully. I attempt to change, and when I fail, I apologize. For instance, she is very sensitive to feeling left out. If I do anything to imply that I left her out, she is offended. Personally, I could care less. People are busy, they forget to include you from time to time. No big deal. Not my issue at all. But I go out of my way to make sure she is included in every bloody detail of every event of every day. Why? Because I value her feelings. The other day I was taking orders for lunch and after I got the kids, I opened the car door and said, I'll be right back. She said, hey what about me? I said, oh sorry, what would you like? When I got back to the car, I apologized and told her, I know that being left out is a big deal to you.

Again, not a big deal to me. I would have just laughed to make her feel better if she forgot to take my order.

So it's validation, ownership, apologies.

I know being jealous and overly sensitive to her interactions with single men is my "big deal" issue. But to just stonewall me on it from day one and never own one single accusation? About a year ago, we were in fight and I blurted out, "Have you ever done anything wrong in our relationship?" She had no answer. I am at the point where I think she really beleives this is true.

Recently when trying to pry an opinion out of me on a home improvement project she said "Come on, this is one area where you do know what you are talking about". It gave me a glimpse of her mentality. I think she truly beleives that when it comes to relationships, marriage, parenthood, and most other issues, she knows best. So how could she ever be wrong? How could she ever say her behavior was harmful to me? How would I know? She is the expert on relationships supposedly.

Wouldn't that be fantastic?! Seriously, it seems so simple yet soooo difficult for some to do. I hear ya, fully. Validation goes a long way.

I see two things here. One, it's not an expectation to involve our partners in every detail as you've described. You are both individuals and in a partnership. It's perfectly healthy for you both to do seperate things from each other. I personally think it's even important to "miss" your partner from time to time. It strengthens the relationship.

Two, it's important to include all members of the family when you "are" spending time together. I feel by you saying you couldn't care less about this is a possible sign that you're starting to disassociate from her.. and I get why. It does matter when our loved ones are feeling left out because we all need to feel valued. If it's an ongoing issue, there's something else going on at the root.. and with you, you've explained what that is.

Well, w all overlook things and it was good you apologized because, again, you excluded her from the family. I don't doubt (and possibly subconsciously) it was to do with all this hurt, and I don't doubt your apologies came off as insincere, even to her. Excluding someone should be "a big deal" for everyone involved. It's a form of bullying. I don't think it was the case in this circumstance but I do believe if you had a more loving relationship, this would be more important to you, as well.. and not just her "problem".

Yep, your feelings are valid here. That was unnecessary for her to say and very much degrading and disrespectful.