Easier to see where others are struggling socially than ourselves

Has anyone noticed that it is easier to see where others may be struggling socially or making mistakes but have a harder time seeing what you may be doing yourself? You may not understand why something is happening to you, yet you can pinpoint exactly where someone is going wrong when they mess up in a social situation.

I've noticed this has been the case for me. Usually I may not realize until after the fact where I messed up, but if someone else, like another friend or acquaintance, complains about problems they are having, I can usually pinpoint the exact moment they either messed up or some signs or body language that they missed. Almost like it is easier to see as an outsider about what is going on.

I've had friends and acquaintances mention how they struggle and always feel left out. In fact, I know a couple people who assume any act of rejection or perceived rejection is a hostile act to make their lives miserable. What they fail to see is that, even though someone may like them as a person, they may not feel as close.

I had a friend tell me that someone she felt close to from church would talk to another friend more. It would cause feelings of rejection and feeling left out. She assumed the person she was friends with was purposely leaving her out, even though there was no wrongdoing. It was just a simple matter of someone talking to another friend a little more.

My friend assumed it was a hostile act. Yes, in some cases, people can be hostile and toxic and only see you as a friend they can take advantage of. But in this scenario, I saw no signs of toxic behavior. It was more of an unfortunate case where my friend just felt closer to the girl from church than that girl did to my friend. I understand that hurts though. Rejection doesn't feel good but those things do happen.

I used to have that problem. I used to think that any sign of rejection was a hostile act in high school. Now, looking back, I know that most of them weren't trying to be hostile, they just didn't feel close to me or see me as a friend. They may have liked me just fine as a person, just not as a friend. Yes, there were definitely toxic people, but not everyone was.

I've also had friends who would interject themselves into conversations and watching as an outsider, I can clearly see the other people looking annoyed. After the fact, a friend may claim that the group outright rejected them and was rude. Again, it was a case of bad timing and putting themselves in a conversation they were just simply not invited to be a part of.

Like I said, there are definitely toxic people out there, I've met lots of them. But at the same time, not everyone who rejects or treats you differently is doing so with toxic intent. These are the times where I can pinpoint where someone else is going wrong or missing subtle signs and body language, but it takes longer for me to notice for myself. I've gotten better at it though. Anyone else find it easier to see where others are going wrong? I think it is a common thing to notice things faster as an outsider looking in as opposed to within yourself.

Dear rdgrad15,

I think I am similar to you in what you describe.

I tend to interpret this in a philosophical way. Perhaps I am wrong, but I think that although we human beings are capable of self-reflection and deliberation, these often require some effort. Often we run on sort of "auto-pilot" so to speak.

Looking out is our default mode and probably this is so because it has a very important survival function. Looking inward is secondary. Perhaps that is why reflexive consciousness is so precious. It allows us to step back and view ourselves as though from the outside and allows us to deliberate about this and not just act automatically.

I think that human beings have freedom but that it is limited and finite. None of us are all-powerful, all-knowing, all-seeing, all-perfect Infinite Beings. Often our freedom is constrained and impeded not only by external forces but internal ones too.

Often we exercise our freedom but not the whole of it. What I mean is that it is perhaps rare that we do things whole heartedly, with all our strength, effort, mind and will. Sometimes we are conflicted.

I am not saying these things prevent our freedom but they definitely limit it and prevent it from being infinite.

There is voluntariness and then there is "full" voluntariness. An infinite being would not face any limitations on voluntariness. Their freedom would not be impeded by ignorance, lack of awareness, limited information, lack of insight, fatigue and so on. Nor would an infinite being's voluntariness be limited by past experiences, blind spots, strong emotions, fear, and so on.

I notice that in legal matters, the main question tends to be: was there any freedom of will in this person. In moral matters, the question is often: how much freedom was involved here. Moralists ask questions about degrees of voluntariness and therefore degrees of responsibility.

I think a lot of stuff people do is done unconsciousness or barely consciously. Perhaps based on unhappy childhood experiences, a person might be very prone to be overly sensitive to rejection and might see it where it doesn't exist or doesn't fully exist. We might see it but they don't see it. You wrote about this in your post.

All of this leads me to be quite sparing when it comes to judging people. People are so complex and none of us has insight into the whole story of a person from the time they were born. Often we are not able to see clearly what comes from the full freedom of a person and what comes from freedom limited by various impediments.

I find it easier to say that a certain action is bad but not so easy to give a final pronouncement on the good or bad of a person in his entirety. I try to avoid that kind of judging if possible. I cannot see the heart of a person. The sage Lao Tzu has a saying: "I find good people good and I find bad people good if I am good enough."

As far as actions are concerned, I think that good and bad form a range or spectrum which admits of degrees. For example, there have been a couple of men in the last 100 years who caused the destruction of tens of millions of people through campaigns of genocide and forced starvation. I think here of Hitler and Stalin and Pol Pot and Mao. Most human beings are not guilty of anything like this. Most of the moral failures we witness are far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far away from the moral failure of people like Hitler.

Things like nastiness, crudeness, and what you call "toxicity" form a range and spectrum too. I would say that in terms of "toxic" behavior, actions like those of Hitler who mandated genocide would be the ultimate of toxic action.

In moral philosophy there is a whole discipline devoted to the study of impediments to the full exercise of human freedom.

There is also something in logic called the fundamental attribution error: the tendency of people to under-estimate situational factors in the behavior of others and over-estimate situational factors in their own behavior. I guess an example of this would be if I said: I did this bad thing because I was stressed out and tired while this other person did this bad thing because he or she is a bad person.

In depression, sometimes this fundamental attribution error is reversed. Those afflicted with depression judge others in a kind of moral trial where there is judge, jury, prosecutor and team of defense attorneys so to speak. But when they judge themselves, they forget to have defense attorneys and only have judge, jury and prosecutor.

Of course none of these things is a valid response to the point you raised and it is quite possible I am wrong about these things as I am often wrong about things and am still growing in my knowledge, experience and insight.

Hopefully others here will have a better response to your post.

Sincerely yours, Yao Wen

Oh you're fine. I get what you mean. It is harder, as human beings, to self reflect but easier to reflect on others as an outsider. And yeah, from what I'm understanding from what you said about Hitler compared to most people, most people are not as bad as him and never will be when it comes to morals and regard for the lives of other people. You are right, most people will not go to that extent. I do agree that some of our objections can result from past experiences, both positive and negative.

Is it possible that what you're seeing in others (and their flaws) is what you instinctively know about yourself? For example, you notice when someone is interrupting others because you may yourself have this tendency or have been personally exposed to this problem?

It is easy for me to see and warn others when they are in bad situations, but I don’t take my own advice.

I think it’s common for people not to listen to their own advice because people are emotionally invested in their own situation and aren’t emotionally invested in other people’s life situations (especially if other people aren’t family or significant others).

Yeah makes sense, I agree.

Yeah same here, although I've gotten better at it compared to my high school years over ten years ago.

Yeah I'm sure that is a possibility. I used to have problems making friends in high school and even college, although not as much of a problem. It's very likely I entered conversations where people thought, "Why is he here? He isn't invited or wanted." And usually now, in the rare chance I do enter a conversation and try to meet others, I catch on very quickly if I'm not actually wanted. Doesn't happen as much anymore since I wait for people to come to me, but if I do enter a conversation unwanted, I do pick up on it very fast and I leave immediately.

I think that we see things more as we are exposed to different behaviors in others. We don't always see things right away so we may not react where we have the self assurance when we come across different behaviors.

Given what I have learned, I can see how an alcoholic develops ways of behaving that are very unhealthy and how others may not pick up on it even when I can see the obvious red flags. It can be a challenge to see how a person twists things around to gain support that empowers that person in some very unhealthy ways.

There are individuals that make impulsive choices not paying attention to the red flags that will have consequences. Then because they acted on impulse and ARE paying the consequences, they become that constant victim when in reality the consequences were right in front of that person the entire time.

Sometimes there are problems in other people that one never really handles all that well because of how the other person tends to distort reality and the only reality that matters is their own. Truth is, people are often a lot more complex than we realize and we all can have problems seeing things in the moment or when someone is using behavior patterns they found works for getting the attention they desire.

Last night I saw a documentary about the man who murdered Versace. Versace was such a gifted man and worked very hard to attain his standing and success. Unfortunately, it was his standing and success that became the cause of him losing his life. It was because of someone who never got that kind of success and grew mad with jealousy to the point where he went on a murdering spree where he murdered those who had gained the success he himself could never gain. Versace believed he was safest here in the US and where he built his beautiful home in Florida. Well, he did not know someone was watching and saw his pattern to see when he would be vulnerable. We all are vulnerable and anyone can come along and take us by surprise.

And you will continue to make gains @rdgrad as we all do from observing and experiencing how others interact with each other and towards us.

That being said, when someone's behaviors leave you feeling bad or disrespected, that's something to sit and think about in your own effort to become more "self" aware. Perhaps you take things more personally than you should. As you observe the behaviors of others as you often like to do, it's important that while you do so that you also develop the capacity to understand that when the other person behaves a certain way towards you it's often their lack and not yours. Truth be told, it's actually very common for other people to lack true self awareness. Often people develop behaviors they think work best for them as they navigate and interact that become habits.

Yeah makes sense. I agree that a lot of what we see in others reflect upon our own experiences which helps is see what is happening sooner than others.

Yeah I agree. It is common for others to not be as self aware. It makes it harder to see within when we are experiencing something than it is as an observer.