Describing others as toxic people

Damn! I thought my google translator was working in a reasonable way.

I really don’t see as a big deal the language barrier. I didn’t have any problem to understand your post. Did you have difficulties to understand my main point here in the post? The fact that I find kind of suspicious when someone shares out right, left and centre the labels of toxic.

We don’t disagree in fact. If a person lies in a chronic=compulsive=habitual way you have the right to protect yourself. Indeed, you have the right to do, think and say whatever you please.
I express my opinion. I think these cases are exceptions. The majority of people is like you or me.
And it doesn’t happen that a person is unluckily enough to be surrounded by people who display a toxic or a harmful behaviour. There is something more behind it. It’s only a matter of Maths.

Wait. There’s another good term -vampires-

This.
She expresses it so well in form and content what it’s in my head that I don’t have anything else to add.

Thanks for this thread AzulOscuro. I just looked at it. Like you, I agree with the comments. I agree that we have to be careful to label behaviors rather than people.

I want to add that I have struggled for a long time about whether or not others were toxic or I am the one who is toxic. In the beginning of my back and forth thoughts, a lot of it was about others but I finally began to look at ways I was behaving badly too. I think I have improved my behaviors and improved my boundaries and have noticed that now others are behaving and doing better. I don't know if I can take any credit for their improvements but do know that we eventually take on some of the behaviors of the people we are with if we spend a lot of time with them. However, we can't change others, we can only change ourselves. Most people have both good and bad behaviors. I know I struggle with not having sympathy for others excuses when they also clearly did something wrong. I have learned that when a person blames, excuses their own bad behavior and guilt trips me or others--it is time call them out on the specific recent behavior they are trying to deflect from or to have a time out from that person. Also, if I allow them to deflect an issue by blaming another person, then I am also contributing to allowing others to be blamed for their inappropriate behavior. I should say something like, "that is not the issue" or "have you talked to them?" And even if they have a valid point about someone else, many times I have been put in situations where others are asking me to change others in a way I do not have the power to do. I am learning to not feel as responsible for things I cannot change. For me, it has been very challenging to be in "fights" between three or more. When it is just between two people, things are so much easier to work out. It is important not to pile on to anyone. Perhaps some of their accusations bear consideration but there are some situations that I shouldn't get in the middle of. Dare I say these are "toxic" situations? I am trying to monitor myself also so that I do not behave badly either.

I know when someone comments that a situation is toxic in my life it's like "NO". It is a challenge but I have the skills to deal with it & the people involved. Sometimes it takes time to determine the necessary skills to use in the challenge but it always gets worked through.

Some have labeled my EX as toxic but in reality he is JUST A JERK who does stupid stuff that affects me negatively & creates difficult situations for me to navigate through. Am I glad I live 2100 miles away now?.......definitely. But I definitely don't call what I am dealing with or those I am dealing with toxic. They are a challenge that has to be faced & resolved.

Other people I have chosen to distance myself from is not because I label them as toxic.... I just don't like their behavior while others do.

Toxic waste is toxic waste to EVERYONE so we can't label a person as toxic when only some of us have issues with them & others are fine with them. It comes down to it more being personality differences that we either choose to be around or not. It is perfectly natural to want to be around people we get along with & stay away from those we don't. Labels are not necessary. It is our own responsibility to take the action that is appropriate for us. It doesn't even really matter what others think of the person except maybe personal validation that what we are sensing about the person may be on the right track.

I think that what contributes to this is how a person can get in the habit of letting their emotions rule their life. Often the result is a person that may be functioning based on their childhood emotions instead of learning to progress and manage their emotions as an adult. This is something you tend to allude to eskie when you talk about how one must learn that how they managed things as a child doesn’t really work in the adult world.

If a person invests a lot of time pointing out things they don’t like about another person and insists on having another person say “yes it’s awful and I am angry for you” often what that results in is just fueling anger and even worse “hate”. This can actually be dangerous in that building up hate can lead to acting out and harming someone else or self. Hate brings about the motivation to eliminate. We all know where that can lead when we recall Hitler and how he decided all Jews were bad and wanted them to be eliminated. This started out as a personal anger about rejection in Hitler and it ended up costing many lives. It was a true HORROR. A warning sign is a desire to gather others to act out based on hate.

The true Evil is how anger turns into hate that fuels the desire to eliminate. That is what Hitler’s rein was all about. Hitler was a very mentally disturbed human being. And eskie he still managed to have many followers. That is the scary part.

I think it's simpler for most people to just use a single word or 2 when talking about things. For many people who are dealing with what they call a "toxic" person/situation, explaining over and over to others or even just in their own emotional processing it is far less exhausting to use a single word adjective.
In English, the first person narrative is always implied unless specifically stated. This is what makes English as a second language so difficult. Most other languages have verb conjugation and pronouns that clarify the relationship between subject, speaker and audience. Englsh also relies very heavily on figurative language such as hyperbole and metaphor. So the term "toxic person" is a hyperbolic metaphor for "person who I percieve as dangerous to me because specific characteristics that I associate with negativity cause a significant reaction in my mental, emotional or physical state of being."

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That is what Hitler’s rein was all about. Hitler was a very mentally disturbed human being. And eskie he still managed to have many followers. That is the scary part.

Many people are either in denial that someone can be that evil or they also are in agreement with the thinking.....but that is a totally different topic. In reality this is the kind of thinking & followings that divide nations.....but each individual is responsible for their own beliefs & values they choose to tolerate in their own lives or take action against. Germany had those who agreed with Hitler, they had those people who tolerated what was happening as long as it didn't affect them personally, then they had those like Bonhoeffer who took a stand against it & did cost him his life. Each different ways of looking at the same situation.

Well what I am talking about is an all X’s are bad mentality. A person can claim how good or nice they are and then make a remark about someone they don’t like and want others to not like by saying, “oh did I tell you this person is also an X” expecting dislike based on that which could mean the other persons color or race or religion or political affiliation just to name a few examples and can even include a mental health challenge. It’s a desire to encourage hate about someone that can actually be a nice person yet someone wants others to believe the person is bad. After all the person is an X. It’s a group hate practice by labeling.

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Originally Posted by Open Eyes Well what I am talking about is an all X’s are bad mentality. A person can claim how good or nice they are and then make a remark about someone they don’t like and want others to not like by saying, “oh did I tell you this person is also an X” expecting dislike based on that which could mean the other persons color or race or religion or political affiliation just to name a few examples and can even include a mental health challenge. It’s a desire to encourage hate about someone that can actually be a nice person yet someone wants others to believe the person is bad. After all the person is an X. It’s a group hate practice by labeling.

So why are people so gullible to be influenced by labels other people use instead of figuring out for themselves what they actually observe & think?

I have to have personal experience with someone before I will judge how their behavior effects me. Others can label to their hearts content but it does not make me see the person according to the label they use until I actually experience that person's behavior. Until I experience it my stance us "yes, that is how YOU have experienced the person & for YOU it is a valid FEELING" (even though it might not be a valid observation in general).

I am an independent thinker & no one puts thoughts or words on me. Exactly why I blocked the guy acquaintance I knew from highschool/college. I got tired of constantly correcting his interpretation of what I said & stating my thoughts totally inaccurately & I sure wasn't going to just quietly say nothing & let it pass so I stopped it altogether.

We don't have to go along with people who label. Actually the more who do, it just validates their behavior of labeling & encourages them to do it more.

That is something I have asked in why do people go along with that mentality. Yet unfortunately people do.

I agree in that I too prefer to make up my own mind. I prefer to decide on the individual and not the X someone else labels them as.

I do appreciate all your replies. It gives me the opportunity to learn from you.
Thank you.

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Originally Posted by AzulOscuro I do appreciate all your replies. It gives me the opportunity to learn from you. Thank you.

Great topic for thought & good discussion....thank you

Thank you @skie, a discussion is worthy when people are ready to talk and share. You, among the others users make it possible.

I wonder when and why arose this habit of calling others toxic. Could it have to do with the need to spotlight the individual over the group? My psyche, my well-being, my interests...? Where’s love, compassion, understanding?

It became one of those buzz words and often is used in the media and in the political world and even articles actually titled “toxic people”.

Just Google “what is a toxic person” and there are plenty of articles you can read.

I see.
I have the luck that people around me, noone is what is called “toxic”. I won the lottery so.

I can’t avoid to think that the term -toxic- has to do with a hedonistic society. Where the individual only cares about himself.

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Originally Posted by Open Eyes @AzulOscuro I respect your effort to try very hard to interact in English when it’s not the language you normally speak. I think you try very hard and tbh I don’t think I would do all that well if I was trying to interact in your language. We can’t just expect other people to navigate the way we need. People are all different and develop their own ways of navigating. I struggle with ptsd and it can be extremely hard to manage. I have had to reach out for help and therapy and have had to do a lot of reading in an effort to understand it. I have shared and ongoing challenge with my older sister and I will say therapists have used the term toxic and disordered and narcissistic to describe the behaviors that have actually traumatized me. So I have probably used the word toxic myself from time to time. I had never used those labels before. I think that my therapist gave me those labels to help me see that her behaviors were bad because he noticed I was being treated badly and he wanted me see that instead of trying to empathize so much. Now I can look back and realize that many of her behaviors were due to how she was actually stealing and did not want me to find out. I have noticed how people do use the label toxic too much. And people also use the label narcissistic a lot too. More than one therapist used that term a lot as well. A lot of people have labeled her Evil and a witch and some words that won’t come up in print. Entitled is another word used a lot. I do think it is important to pay attention to one’s own behaviors that may contribute to our challenges. People are complex and all our lives we will come across behaviors in others that can be a challenge to navigate around. It’s called learning to be self aware and seeing our own part when having challenges with others. Not everything that challenges us is external. That’s what I noticed about my sister. She blames too much of her own issues on others. When someone is like that it’s often a waste of time to convince them otherwise. Therapists have told me that as well.

The section I made bold says a lot. I think a lot of the terminology has come from the use by our therapists to help us understand what we had been dealing with that has caused us problems. Then instead of just applying it to our situation for understanding, we tend to start labeling others that seem to be similar to what we dealt with that caused us problems, then we start labeling situations the same way.

OK, I am guilty of using the term "dysfunctional" way too much because it actually described my parents & also my now EX husband. My T helped me understand that they were dysfunctional & that the way I reacted to them was because their behaviors were NOT normal & that my reaction was actually an appropriate response to behavior like that. So then I tended to start saying that anyone who behaved in a similar way was IMO, dysfunctional & in reality that is just the same as the overuse of the term "toxic".

Another term that I remember learning in therapy is about "validation". Good to know when we need validation from others or self-validation is better. It is important to know that what we are thinking is along the right path but even that is a term that can be overused.

Having had 2 years of intense DBT therapy, it was good for me to learn terms that could describe what I had experienced & was experiencing to help me learn how to express my thoughts & feelings. But when we take it past that & start applying it to everyone else & every other situation we come across, I think that is where the problem comes in.

I honestly NEVER heart the term "toxic" ever used in the 2 years of DBT or with any of my good T's I have had since moving here. Probably why I never apply that term to any of the situations I find myself in because they seem to me to be more dysfunctional than toxic which is based on our own personal experiences how we see our situations.

A word my therapists used a lot was “disordered”. Yet there was a period that “narcissistic” was used too. I think many are reconsidering using that term because it sounds too much like a diagnosis and that can cause problems in it can be repeated when it’s not meant as an actual diagnosis but instead a behavior.

Actually I never used these words until I began working with therapists. Yet I also noticed tons of articles describing narcissistic behaviors. That being said there are popular long running series that describe certain behaviors that criminals exhibit.

Bottom line is we all have to learn how to navigate around people that have varying behaviors. We cannot expect everyone to navigate around our needs and if they don’t deem them toxic and go on a rage rant.

Thanks to you for your contribution.

I see as so amazing the fact that you have the guts to look at yourself, in case you have something to fix.
It worths of a lot of credit. Me too. I’m trying to learn. I have so much to learn. There was a time, just before going to my first psychologist that I used to blame everybody for my issues. I was so lost.

Then, I went through a phase when I considered myself the worst person in the world. You know....I thought I was one if those called “toxic person”.

Now, as you, I got some kind of balance.

Yes, I remember one of the first psychology buzz words that became popular was ‘dysfunctional’. Did it mean people who don’t function? Families that don’t function like a family should? What does it even mean? My mom calls it psychobabble and people who are looking at themselves and others behaviors are (sorry guys) “looking up their own azzes!”

Yeah, it's interesting how many call what psychologists do, say and study as "psychobabble".

Psychologists are experts in human behavior. The DSM exists for a reason, and psychologists have the professional education to back up their theories, diagnoses and terminology.

Not saying this is YOUR mother, but I find that people who call it psychobabble are really just unaware and ignorant of the field of psychology and how theories are formed and based. They're based on scientific studies of human and animal behavior.

So the term "toxic" itself is widely used within the field of psychology, and so is the term, dysfunctional. "Dysfunctional" is used to describe the breaking down of expected and normal human behavior, human systems, governments, work environments, family dynamics, relationships, etc, also used within the field of psychology.

However when someone feels trapped in a toxic situation, I know I for one have responded in a toxic way myself which only adds fuel to the fire. Two toxic's don't make it cancel each other out, it just makes a toxic situation more toxic.

Like with anything toxic, removing ones self totally is actually the ONLY good solution. Also working on ones OWN awareness & responses to situations can help to not get into situations like that in the future. I know it has worked in my situation but I also know that the way I reacted made the bad(toxic) situation worse. I have now learned to respond differently to people like that & keep them at a distance & it has made a huge difference in MY life & I don't have that horrible feeling that I was just as toxic in my own way in relationship as the person I disliked for being toxic. I also know many who would not have found what was "toxic" to me, "toxic" to them[/SIZE][/FONT]

But that's exactly what happens when you engage or interact with someone who is toxic - the toxic person causes a natural reaction of anger, rage, resentment by their poor treatment and behaviors. It is only natural to react to it and sometimes in a way that meets them at their level.

After noticing the dance that then becomes even more toxic, since the toxic person doesn't know any better, the one who is on the receiving end then has to make an adjustment in how they choose to interact with that person. The only option is to remove oneself from that person and to no longer engage.