Was I in the Wrong???

Ok, I wrote a previous topic on here about the issues between a girlfriend and me. Since the last post, we split up. Again. I don't want to rehash all in detail, but I wanted to hear other people's opinions on this.

To sum up the issues leading into this, my girlfriend is sensitive about a LOT of topics. Those topics range from: no asking about past relationships, no asking about difficulties from her past, no complaining about not getting enough time together, nothing that could be seen as negative about any of the kids (no matter what they're doing), no comments that would indicate I doubt her love for me (despite her having broken up with me more times than I can count now), if my opinion is different than hers I either need to not say it or approach it EXTREMELY delicately, and there are about eight others, but you get the idea.

If I do end up talking about one of those things, at any given time in the conversation, she can get furious with me. When she does, there is no reasoning with her. She will insist I was asking because I have ill-intent, yell at me, usually calls me names and insults, and breaks up with me. Yes, it is very emotionally abusive. She actually tries to say I am the one who is abusive for asking her questions I'm supposed to "know" I can't ask about. But, she adds to the list every day, and then I find out what was added that "I was supposed to know already" after the fact when she is already yelling at me and/or breaking up with me.

I am a very giving person, so none of my actions towards her or the family have ever even once indicated any ill-intent. Regardless, she doubts the intentions of just about everything that comes out of my mouth.

She has even admitted herself she doesn't understand why we can talk about a topic one day and it's fine, but then the same topic on another day and she gets angry. She blames my tone of voice, my mannerisms, how I say it, and "her gut feeling." So, no matter what I tell her as far as my intent, she won't believe me at that point if her "gut" tells her otherwise.

There's a lot more to this, as my personal psychologist believe it's triggers from past trauma she has been through. Subconscious based fear reactions to potential threats to her emotional well being. If she sees something as even having a slim chance of having ill-intent, her subconscious seems to convince her conscious it is true and to fight it.

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That is the type of stuff I covered in my last thread, the one that led up to this.

Two weeks ago, we had a pretty good weekend. Last weekend was horrible though. My birthday was on the 3rd (Thurs before weekend), so we planned to celebrate my birthday over the weekend. She got upset with me Fri, because she told me the day before I could ask her questions that I'm normally not allowed to, but then I did and she got angry anyway! She told me I didn't prepare her and that it was bad timing. But, when I was asking them, never once did she complain until after she was furious with me. Then, the same thing as usual. She nearly broke up with me and told me to leave. Instead of leaving, I just gave her space. Well, the whole weekend went by and she never got over it, so we spent practically no time together. I even had to go out on my birthday dinner by myself.

And even though we were good all that week prior to the weekend, she got me NOTHING for my birthday! No cake, no surprise, not even a gift! So on Fri night, she is shopping around on Amazon to get something after the fact. It comes on Sat, she opens the Amazon packages, and just tosses both in front of me. One of them was a birthday card, but it wasn't even filled out. The second one was a fill in the blank book about couples. It was sweet, but again, it was blank. I didn't even know what to say, as she just tossed two things in front of me without even writing on the card or the book. So, of course since I wasn't excited over her gifts, she then gets even angrier at me and pushes me away more. So again, she did something I felt was wrong, but then I take the brunt of it.

We normally see each other on the weekends and Weds. She barely talked to me the next several days, and I was dreading she was going to end the relationship yet again (or already thought we were over). She made it clear that she did not want me coming on Weds. We talk a little more Thurs and Fri, so then Fri afternoon, I come over.

So, my birthday weekend was completely ruined, she knew this, and we have not had any quality time together in two weeks. When I first show up, she is sweet and affectionate, hugs me and kisses me.

I got there at 6:30pm, and shortly after greeting me, she spends an hour or so cleaning the house. She then spends an hour or so cooking dinner for everyone. By the time she is finished with cleaning and cooking, it was around 9 if I remember correctly. Her son (who she has full-time) said he wanted tea after dinner. The place he wanted to go to was about a 15-20min drive. For TEA. She immediately tells him yes.

By this point, I got upset. I felt she hadn't appreciated me driving an hour and a half to her in horrible traffic, making the effort (as I'm always the one who has to) to come see her. I felt blown off all so her son could get tea. I made it clear I was upset, as I had to cook more dinner and couldn't leave yet (she didn't make enough for everyone, as she feeds all the other young adults in the house too). I made it clear it was going on about 2.5hrs or however long it was by that point, and we had spent no quality time together, and now, she was going to spend about 40-50mins getting her son tea instead of enjoying time with me. I felt completely unappreciated, disregarded, taken for granted, and unloved.

When she got back, I tried to approach the situation as gently and calmly as I could, dreading if I didn't, she would get mad at me. Told her how I felt disappointed. I explained how we hadn't had quality time in 2 weeks at that point, still did nothing for my birthday, how she spent hours after I get there doing other stuff and making absolutely no quality time for me, then spends another 40-50mins to go get her son tea over time with me. I explained how it made me feel, why I felt that way, etc. Despite me approaching it calm and rational and being open about my feelings, she then gets angry and starts yelling at me. Complaining she "can't do anything right" how she can never make me happy, and asking why I'm with her when everything she does is wrong. I felt it was COMPLETELY blown out of proportion. I was letting her know I was feeling unappreciated, and in return, she starts fighting with me and turned into something it wasn't. I mean seriously, all I was looking to do was show her why I was disappointed, maybe get an apology or some form of acknowledgement on her end, and then we could enjoy the rest of the weekend. Mainly, I wanted to be heard. But, she took it as a direct attack against her as a person, so the fighting ensued.

She initially ended us during that argument, but then later said she never did. At this point, I was going to be lucky to have 30-60mins with her before she "gets ready for bed," which consists of 1-8hrs of playing games on her phone (I'd say average 4-6hrs), then sleeping in because she was playing games all night instead of trying to spend time with me.

We get into bed, things are good for maybe 30mins, then ANOTHER argument starts! This one was over yet another thing I felt was trivial. She got upset because we were talking about a FB post she made years back, about how she was so hot from watching an actor on TV that she needed a towel. All I said at that point is I wish I could make her feel that way. She immediately got upset with me. So then, I tried to explain that I wonder if there were other men she felt were more attractive than me, and basically seeing where I stood in all that. She then goes on to telling me how another guy she met was hotter than me. Could've been gentle, but since she was angry, she blurts it out just like that. Of course, I'm a little hurt, especially because she claimed she never had an attraction to anyone like she does with me. I just wasn't expecting that, and in such a cold way.

Now, it turns into a full-blown argument. She complains about how I always have to compare myself to others, that she's fed up with me always wanting to "be the best" of all men she's been with, etc. But I told her, yes, overall I need a relationship to (eventually over time) be the best one a person has had to date, because I don't want to be a second choice or something they're settling for. I have very high standards, ones that she well more than meets and I told her numerous times, but she just dislikes that I "set the bar so high."

So now, she breaks up with me yet again. All because I asked how I measure up with others. I wasn't talking about her exes, as I knew I wasn't allowed to. I made SURE it was a topic she did not tell me I couldn't talk about.

To add, as far as that list of things I had to avoid, a couple days or so before that, I put together the list to keep on my phone. To review it over and over, and make DAMN sure I avoid all the things on that list. I copied and pasted it to her one day, asking her to add anything she felt was necessary. She added nothing.

So, I bring up that what she is angry about was not on that list. She then tells me I should know that this is a topic I can't talk about, even though it wasn't on the list (even though she had the opportunity to add anything she wanted). So now, she breaks up with me over a NEW topic, claiming I should've known it was one.

Even though I was seeing my daughter the next morning, she made me pack ALL my stuff up the night before, as she made it clear she didn't want me to have to come back after seeing my daughter. I then spend probably about an hour loading up all my stuff I had over there.

I made it clear how hurt I was, how it was not fair that she never added it to the list, how it was being blown WAY out of proportion, how she was throwing the relationship away again (after claiming yet again she wouldn't anymore). Yes, I said some nasty things, as I don't see my daughter much and I was VERY angry she was making me get very little sleep before getting time with her. But, that was after she already picked a fight, criticized me, broke up with me, and then insisted I pack up all my stuff right then and there.

I load all my stuff up in the car, get maybe 5hrs of sleep in total, get up, and she woke up shortly after. I asked to talk to her. She tried to avoid it at first, but then agreed. I said one sentence before she left the room. I was trying to make it clear I'm not going to try to get her back like I normally do, but I wanted to try to maintain a friendship while she was working on herself (she's aware she has issues and started actively working on them two weeks ago with a psychologist; only two sessions though, so they didn't cover much yet other than questions about her). After my first sentence, she then opens the bedroom door, walks out of it into the den right outside the room, and intentionally makes a scene in front of her daughter and daughter's boyfriend. I don't even remember what she said, as I was so embarrassed and appealed that she would use them as a meat shield like that. She knew I would not argue in front of the kids (although she obviously won't hesitate to drag them into it like that), so I just up and left.

She wouldn't listen to me that night. She put words into my mouth, insisted I had ill-intent with various things that weren't the case, and would talk over me any time I tried to say anything. So, she makes sure that you can't work on anything with her. I tried to do the speaker/listener technique, but she made it clear she didn't care and didn't want to hear what I had to say.

So, she essentially broke up with me AGAIN because I was upset we hadn't had quality time in two weeks and I felt blown off, and then asking how I stacked up against other men (and mainly just wanting to figure out whatever I could do to make her feel that way towards me, if anything of course). I felt this was extremely unfair. She kept blaming me for the way she felt. I told her she was the one making the choice to get angry rather than shrug it off, or with the time issue, reassuring me. But, she hates giving any kind of reassurance for some reason, and if you tell her you need some reassurance, she does the opposite - gets angry and pushes you away. She somehow expects me to assume she loves me oh so much, yet breaks up with me at the drop of a hat, and has done it more times in the last 11mos than I can even remember.

Sad thing is, I've been told I am wrong so many times now that at times, I believe her, despite no ex ever reacting like that to me. EVER. She DID have the same type of issues with her ex-husband, the man prior to me, but yet I was always seen as the problem in her eyes.

Maybe I shouldn't have complained. Maybe I should've just appreciated whatever time she was going to want to give me. Maybe I shouldn't have mentioned other men. I don't feel it's fair to have a huge list of topics you can't talk about, because the person is too emotional to handle those topics. I was always walking on eggshells, dreading the next thing I'd say that I felt was harmless, but that she would get angry over due to negative assumptions.

What do you all think? Did I screw up here? Was it reasonable to have a list of topics you can't talk about? Was it wrong of me to say I was disappointed? I don't even know anymore. She says things that make me feel horrible for even thinking about certain things. Wanted to get your perspectives here?

Since I am a person who does not like drama in relationships, I could not be in the relationship you describe. She sounds like a person who it would be impossible to be with for any length time. Obviously, there is something holding you to her, something that attracts you and something that you treasure about her. Advice is not something I can give here. I have seen relationships similar to the one you describe which I would call hopeless and impossible and yet the couples have been together for 50 or 60 years. So I am way out of my element. Hopefully a lot of other members here will offer you their opinions and some you will find helpful. Wish I knew what else to say. All I can say is that I sincerely hope that in your life you will find what gives you what you need.

Wow, I’m so sorry you’ve been through all of that.
I understand there are two sides to every story though so it is difficult to say what is “right” and what is “wrong”.

The main thing I think after reading your post is that you both need to work on yourselves before entering into a relationship.
I know you said you have a therapist and she has only just started seeing a psychologist.

From what you’ve said, I think you need to learn about what is good for you and what is abuse, it’s not surprising that you doubt or compare yourself to others when you’re in a relationship of the kind you have described. And she needs to learn to open up and stop resorting to anger. But this is only from what you’ve said. It’s difficult to know as we only have one side of the story.

Saying that, I agree with @Yaowen I wouldn’t be in a relationship with that much drama. I don’t agree that there are things you “shouldn’t” talk about otherwise an argument will be started. I think relationships require communication and honesty and it doesn’t sound you have that.

I understand she sounds like she has had a traumatic past. But I think it’s unacceptable to treat someone badly because of that.

Now it’s time for you to think. What are you going to do? Are you going to work on yourself? Are you going to go back to a relationship like that?
Are you going to take some time to think?

You don’t have to answer those questions, it’s just for you to think.

Regardless I’m so sorry you’re in this situation. It sounds like it’s been somewhat abusive and that’s not ok.
Sending hugs

This must be very difficult. There seems to be so many boundries, triggers and baggage, there isn't room for a healthy relationship in her life. Knowing how emotionally cluttered she is, and that she is the only one who can clean up her emotional messes, your best efforts at a healthy relationship is a gift she keeps refusing.
You may be a little bit emotionally starved from all the drama. To answer your questions, you aren't wrong for trying to fit into the tiny space she makes available. You have a right to be disappointed in the way she uses her boundries to push you around in that tiny space. You've appeared to do everything g possible to fit into her emotional life. She keeps kicking you out of it. If this is the case, let her have her space back, tell her you wish her the best and take the empty couples book and fill it up with someone who has enough emotional space for you.

I hope you find the emotionally healthy relationship you want. I hope your ex girlfriend finds the one she wants too.

It really doesn’t sound like you’re in the wrong, here - you’re walking on eggshells over things most people don’t have huge issues with. It sounds as if she sets you up to fail, also, though I can’t really work out a possible motive for that. What I meant by setting you up to fail is she gave you permission to ask the “forbidden questions”, then got mad at you for doing so.
You can’t win the games she invites you to play - and if you thought you could, the goalposts would be moved. Don’t question yourself any more - this would drive anyone crazy.

I'm really sorry about how it went bad. None of her drama is your fault is what's for sure. It was totally okay for you to say how you feel while being solutions oriented and not bad-drama-oriented. That list was way too long for it to be reasonable. Her doing that drama in front of the kids was really sh**tty too.

Thing is, all this is the cold, hard and sad reality, that the relationship was really this bad, and that the highs were not going to ever come back. The initial intense "love emotions" of hers were too irrational, not real, either. Because of how she is so willing here to say that she does find other men more attractive, despite her original claim in the early "high" phase of the relationship that she never had an attraction to anyone like to you. She sounds like she'd originally said too much too fast emotionally without it really being more than some fantasy in her mind, without actually knowing you first and loving your real person.

One piece of advice. You might have high standards or not, I don't know what these standards are exactly like, but you may have to add some new ones to really realise what a good relationship truly feels like, so you can avoid toxic ones like this in future. I mean, right now you could be at risk for running into another one, so be sure to process it all and have it all add up before you try to date anyone else too soon.

PS: Articles on the dramatic (Cluster B) personality disorders could be a good read when trying to process all this. All that kind of bad drama is described and explained well in such resources. I'm not saying she was personality disordered but she could've very well had traits of some Cluster B stuff.

I wouldn’t want to diagnose anyone with anything over the internet but I would agree there are personality traits described in what you’ve said.
Again, I’m not saying this is a fact, just an opinion of what you’ve described.

The new ICD 11 is out (diagnostic manual similar to DSM). It states that a large proportion of the population have “personality difficulties” which is a level lower than personality disordered. Just something I thought was very interesting!

How could she play games on her phone all night (6 hours?????). Does she not work?

It doesn’t really matter what diagnosis she have or what she needs to work on or what issues she has. Who needs relationship with people who call others name, yells insults, fights with people in front of her own children and plays stupid games on the phone all night. She is bad news. Good riddance

We can’t fully understand why people do what they do and it is a waste of time trying to do so. But we could try to understand why WE do what we do. I recommend therapy trying to get to the bottom of even considering relationship with such poorly behaved unhealthy individual and why would you blame yourself for her outrageous behavior. Good therapist could help with that

Good luck and please stir away from her

I agree with what she said: why *are* you even with her?

Her mood seems very volatile, communication pretty bad (some topics are off the list?!), she treats you pretty badly and clearly shows you are not one of her priorities.

So I ask myself the same thing: why are you with her? You don't have to put up with this. And now you split up. Good. Stay away.

Thank you for all the feedback, and a lot of great points here.

As I stated in my other thread, based on what I've explained to my psychologist over the last 11mos, she does believe my ex could have borderline personality disorder, or at least bi-polar disorder (which runs in her family, yet she refuses to get diagnosed for some reason). Both of them could explain the unpredictable mood swings, and extreme change of personality (when happy vs when angry).

She struggled between blaming me, and accepting she has issues too. Depended on the day. Sometimes, she'd put nearly all of it on me. Other days, she would admit she had things to work on.

But like many of you have said, the goods aren't worth the bad. The abuse was unacceptable to me, and it could be months or even years before that changes with her counseling. That is IF it even changes. She's had counseling in the past, and said it did her no good (that they just parrot back to you what you already know and other criticisms). Who knows how receptive she'll be this time and for how long. I'm sure all it will take is her counselor telling her something she doesn't want to hear, and she will begin dismissing her.

Either way, not my problem anymore. I know I deserve better. And it was one thing when she was actively working on it and improving. But, her regression from her depression showed me that more likely than not, I would always have to deal with some bouts of abuse here and there, depending on her mental state. I hoped she'd change, but I don't think she can.

Please don’t forget that.

I think you should be happy you are out of the relationship. Try to focus on moving forward and not dwelling so much on what happened.